Choosing between 2 round cut diamonds - thoughts much appreciated!

[First_Time_Buyer_01]

All,
I''m choosing between 2 round cut diamonds at the moment. I am a first time buyer (for an engagment ring) and was curious which of the two seemed better on paper, or if there is something you think I''m overlooking. BOTH ARE THE SAME PRICE. In person, I can''t tell much of a difference but as the username implies, I''m an inexperienced first-time buyer.

I''ve listed a number of specs below, though somethings to point out:

-Diamond #1, I have been told, fits into the "Ideal" category given Table / Depth %, though Diamond #2 has higher Cut and Polish Ratings (both EX, versus Diamond #1 both VG).
-They are both SI1, and have no inclusions visible on the naked eye, though the GIA report for Diamond #1 has two very minor clouds at the edges, while Diamond #2 has a number of inclusions listed (noted below), though none appear visible
-Diamond #1 has a thin - thick girldle, Diamond #2 has thin - medium girdle.
-Diamond #1 has the comment "Cut Grade Impacted by Brillianteering"
*Below, I''ve noted two parameters (Crown / Girlde Diameter & Pavilion Diameter) with a question mark, as I''m not sure the correct terminology. If confused, please ignore those 2 parameters, as I think they''re less important.

THANKS FOR ANY INSIGHT / ADVICE!!!

Diamond #1
Shape and Cutting Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 8.00 - 8.06 x 5.03mm
Carat Weight: 2.01 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Very Good (Comment "Cut Grade Impacted by Brillianteering")
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Comments: None
Table Width: 55%
Pavilion Depth: 62.6%
Crown Height: 15%
Crown Angle: 34.0 Degrees
Crown / Girlde Diameter (?): 50%
Pavilian Height: 43.5%
Pavilion Angle: 41.2 Degrees
Paviliian Diameter (?): 75%
Cutlet: None
Girdle Thickness: Thin - Thick (faceted)
Reference Diagram: 2 very small clouds at the very edges of the diamond. A small feather and an indented natural, also at the far edges of the diamond. Have reviewed w/ naked eye and nothing visible that would be concerning.


Diamond #2
Shape and Cutting Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 8.23 - 8.27 x 4.90mm
Carat Weight: 2.01 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Faint
Comments: Additional Clouds not shown
Table Width: 59%
Pavilion Depth: 59.4%
Crown Height: 13%
Crown Angle: 32.5 Degrees
Crown / Girlde Diameter (?): 50%
Pavilian Height: 43.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0 Degrees
Paviliian Diameter (?): 80%
Cutlet: None
Girdle Thickness: Thin - Medium(faceted)
Reference Diagram: A number of crystal, feather, needle, split 40% between center and 60% at diamond edges. Have reviewed w/ naked eye and nothing visible that would be concerning.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/29/2009 12:41:09 PM
Author:First_Time_Buyer_01
All,
I'm choosing between 2 round cut diamonds at the moment. I am a first time buyer (for an engagment ring) and was curious which of the two seemed better on paper, or if there is something you think I'm overlooking. BOTH ARE THE SAME PRICE. In person, I can't tell much of a difference but as the username implies, I'm an inexperienced first-time buyer.

I've listed a number of specs below, though somethings to point out:

-Diamond #1, I have been told, fits into the 'Ideal' category given Table / Depth %, though Diamond #2 has higher Cut and Polish Ratings (both EX, versus Diamond #1 both VG).
-They are both SI1, and have no inclusions visible on the naked eye, though the GIA report for Diamond #1 has two very minor clouds at the edges, while Diamond #2 has a number of inclusions listed (noted below), though none appear visible
-Diamond #1 has a thin - thick girldle, Diamond #2 has thin - medium girdle.
-Diamond #1 has the comment 'Cut Grade Impacted by Brillianteering'
*Below, I've noted two parameters (Crown / Girlde Diameter & Pavilion Diameter) with a question mark, as I'm not sure the correct terminology. If confused, please ignore those 2 parameters, as I think they're less important.

THANKS FOR ANY INSIGHT / ADVICE!!!

Diamond #1
Shape and Cutting Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 8.00 - 8.06 x 5.03mm
Carat Weight: 2.01 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Very Good (Comment 'Cut Grade Impacted by Brillianteering')
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Comments: None
Table Width: 55%
Pavilion Depth: 62.6%
Crown Height: 15%
Crown Angle: 34.0 Degrees
Crown / Girlde Diameter (?): 50%
Pavilian Height: 43.5%
Pavilion Angle: 41.2 Degrees
Paviliian Diameter (?): 75%
Cutlet: None
Girdle Thickness: Thin - Thick (faceted)
Reference Diagram: 2 very small clouds at the very edges of the diamond. A small feather and an indented natural, also at the far edges of the diamond. Have reviewed w/ naked eye and nothing visible that would be concerning.


Diamond #2
Shape and Cutting Style: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 8.23 - 8.27 x 4.90mm
Carat Weight: 2.01 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Faint
Comments: Additional Clouds not shown
Table Width: 59%
Pavilion Depth: 59.4%
Crown Height: 13%
Crown Angle: 32.5 Degrees
Crown / Girlde Diameter (?): 50%
Pavilian Height: 43.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0 Degrees
Paviliian Diameter (?): 80%
Cutlet: None
Girdle Thickness: Thin - Medium(faceted)
Reference Diagram: A number of crystal, feather, needle, split 40% between center and 60% at diamond edges. Have reviewed w/ naked eye and nothing visible that would be concerning.

Hi FTB

Are these diamonds online or from a jewellery store? With the first one particularly an image such as Idealscope is essential to be able to check the stone out and particularly because it has been brillianteered. This isn't necessarily a problem but warrants checking with an image as above. The diamond is also facing up a bit small for the weight. Some online vendors offer Idealscope images but these are unusual with brick and mortar stores.

Diamond 2 might be ok but again an image would be useful. The girdle thicknesses would be useful for both ( thin to slightly thick or the percentages as an example ) and also the star and lower girdle facet percentages, all this info will be on the lab reports. You could if you wish order an Idealscope and check these out yourself, they are simple to use and to interpret the results.

 

[First_Time_Buyer_01]

Lorelei,

Thanks for your thoughts. The diamonds are from a store (not online), but I don''t have the Idealscope.

Even without it, any other thoughts between the two from the information given?

Essentiallly, it seems that Diamond #1 benefits from being considered in the "Ideal" category given it''s specs, and SI1 w/ only imperfections on the edges, but drawbacks include Girdle (Thin to Thick) and Cut and Polish being VG. It has also been "Brillianteered".

Diamond #2 is EX on both Cut and Polish, and the girdle seems to be better (Thin to Medium). The drawback seem to be that the imperfections, while not visible to the naked eye, are more in the center, and it''s proportions, while close to 60 / 60, are not "Ideal" like Diamond #1.

So, any other helpful thoughts or watch-outs when deciding between the two (or avoinding them...)?

MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
FTB

 

[Dreamer_D]

If I am totally honest, I am not wild about either one unless they are a spectacualr price and you are very set on going above 2ct on a limited budget. Number 1 scores a 3 on the HCA, which is ok *if the price is right*. I don't personally like the larger table on number 2, I like smaller tables.

ETA Actually, the angles on number two appear to be quite complimentary based on the HCA, falling into the ideal range, which makes sense I suppose given the cut grade. You cannot use the HCA to select a diamond, but you can use it to reject diamonds. Using that tool alone then I would perhaps lean towards diamond number two, assuming the price is fair. You have seen them. Have you looked at them in a wide range of environments?

What is the price on both of these? I like to see people getting fair value for their money, and sometimes that is compromised at B&M stores.

 

[FB.]

Two potentially very different looking stones, due to one having a large table and shallow depth, whereas the other has a small table and greater depth. Neither is necessarily bad - it's what you prefer.

Number 1 is borderline deep pavilion but has the general flavour of a Tolkowsky cut. It needs careful attention because of the angle combinations sitting at a point where just a tiny rounding-off error could make a big difference between what the lab report leads you to expect and the optical performance that you actually get.
The brillianteering might have been done to improve the optical performance of a deep pavilion stone, or it might just be a selfish cutter desperately clinging to the 2ct level and the extra $$$.
More evaluation needed. I'd probably walk away from number 1 without further investigation.

Number 2 is more of a 60/60 type. It is likely to be a bit brighter than a Tokowsky ideal cut but with less dark-light contrast. It also has a large diameter relative to it's weight - making it look substantially larger than an average 2ct stone - as you can see from the 8.2 v 8.0mm comparison of your stones.

From the basic numbers you provided, I think that number 2 is a safer set of proportions for a good stone.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/29/2009 3:42:33 PM
Author: First_Time_Buyer_01
Lorelei,

Thanks for your thoughts. The diamonds are from a store (not online), but I don't have the Idealscope.

Even without it, any other thoughts between the two from the information given?

Essentiallly, it seems that Diamond #1 benefits from being considered in the 'Ideal' category given it's specs, and SI1 w/ only imperfections on the edges, but drawbacks include Girdle (Thin to Thick) and Cut and Polish being VG. It has also been 'Brillianteered'.

Diamond #2 is EX on both Cut and Polish, and the girdle seems to be better (Thin to Medium). The drawback seem to be that the imperfections, while not visible to the naked eye, are more in the center, and it's proportions, while close to 60 / 60, are not 'Ideal' like Diamond #1.

So, any other helpful thoughts or watch-outs when deciding between the two (or avoinding them...)?

MUCH APPRECIATED!!!
FTB

Diamond 1 isn't actually what I would call an Ideal cut, also with the brillianteering an image or expert eye is really needed to see if the brillianteering has a beneficial or not effect on the diamond, no way to tell without more info, there are other factors that can't be seen without images which may or may not affect positively or negatively the beauty and effective performance of the diamonds.

Diamond 2 has a slightly larger table and is indeed closer to a 60 60 ( I assumed the pavilion depth of 59.4% is actually the physical depth), the proportions could work and the diamond could show a tendency more towards brilliance than fire due to the slightly shallower crown angle and table size. But thats really all that can be determined without images regrettably.

I would suggest checking out some AGS0 cut grade, if you have a Jareds closeby go and view their Peerless range, or if there is a Hearts on Fire dealer in your area you could look at those, this will give you an idea of how well cut stones look so you can compare others to these. Also with any diamonds you view, ask if you can look at them away from any bright store lights so you can see how they will look in everyday wearing conditions. Also if you wanted to invest $25 in an Idealscope that would be a tremendous help to you, they are simple to use and the results easy to interpret with a little reading.