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Choosing a stone - HELP needed!

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Bimbi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
35

Hello Everyone.


My boyfriend and I made an appointment with an estate jeweler recommended to me by people on this website to look at estate rings and loose diamonds. I was wondering if someone can provide a list of specifications we need to look at to make sure that we are getting a good stone. Based on what I''ve read in these forums, we need to get a very good cut, stay in the higher colors and compromise a little on the clarity (please correct me if I''m wrong). However, I have no idea how to read the fluorescence and the %s that people keep giving when they evaluate stones. We will most likely be looking at stones in the 3-4k price range, 1 ct or close to it. I have two settings that I am debating between, one is a bezel setting and one is a halo setting, my boyfriend likes the halo better so I think we will go with that.


I want to make sure that we are armed with as much information as possible so that we don''t seem like we don''t know what we are talking about.


Thanks in advance for your help

 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/3/2009 10:23:21 AM
Author:Bimbi






Hello Everyone.








My boyfriend and I made an appointment with an estate jeweler recommended to me by people on this website to look at estate rings and loose diamonds. I was wondering if someone can provide a list of specifications we need to look at to make sure that we are getting a good stone. Based on what I've read in these forums, we need to get a very good cut, stay in the higher colors and compromise a little on the clarity (please correct me if I'm wrong). However, I have no idea how to read the fluorescence and the %s that people keep giving when they evaluate stones. We will most likely be looking at stones in the 3-4k price range, 1 ct or close to it. I have two settings that I am debating between, one is a bezel setting and one is a halo setting, my boyfriend likes the halo better so I think we will go with that.








I want to make sure that we are armed with as much information as possible so that we don't seem like we don't know what we are talking about.








Thanks in advance for your help

Hi Bimbi,

I can post some proportions to help you find a well cut round if you like but if you are looking at estate diamonds, this info may not be available to help you on the reports etc.
What I do recommend you do is to order an ASET or Idealscope scope. This tool will help you immensely to evaluate the cut of each diamond.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=2&ShowAdd=Y

Chart you can use to interpret the results - http://www.ideal-scope.com/using_reference_chart.asp

As to what to choose, much of it is down to budget and personal preference, as long as the diamond is eyeclean and the cut excellent then you will have a pretty diamond. I would suggest a range of G to H or I and J perhaps to help the budget and eyeclean SI clarities.

If you are looking at diamonds which do not have a reliable grading report such as GIA, then I would make the sale final on the diamond checking out to your satisfaction in all aspects with an independant appraisal - and get this in writing. Here is a tool you can use to find an appraiser in your area.

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

You can read more on fluorescence here, on very rare occasions you might find a colour other than blue but this is unusual. Basically faint and medium blue you might not even notice, again rarely strong or very strong can make a diamond look cloudy in some lights but apparently this isn't hard to spot according to one of the experts. So you should be fine, again if you have any doubts an appraiser is invaluable.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fluor.asp

Lastly, don't go by labels such as Very Good cut, Ideal Cut etc as these are often no guarantee of a well cut diamond.
 

Bimbi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
35
Thanks.

The reason we started looking at oecs was that our budget is limited. Do you think we can find a good RB for 3-3500 that is worth the money. I have been looking at white flash and blue nile and the do have some diamonds in that price range, however, I am not sure if they are worth buying. I am a very visual person and it''s hard for me to buy something online. We were thinking of going to the NYC diamond district and we will still go for educational purposes even I like something on thursday, but reading the posts here it seems shopping online is the better option.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/3/2009 10:47:10 AM
Author: Bimbi
Thanks.

The reason we started looking at oecs was that our budget is limited. Do you think we can find a good RB for 3-3500 that is worth the money. I have been looking at white flash and blue nile and the do have some diamonds in that price range, however, I am not sure if they are worth buying. I am a very visual person and it's hard for me to buy something online. We were thinking of going to the NYC diamond district and we will still go for educational purposes even I like something on thursday, but reading the posts here it seems shopping online is the better option.
You could get something like this, a little under a carat but great cut, J colour which will still be very white and in budget if you paid by bank wire.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1114622.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

Here is another, you would need to check it is eyeclean by asking the vendor. Even though it is AGS0 cut grade I would definitely want an Idealscope image for this configuration and looking at the photo, James Allen would be able to provide one.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218700.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,022
Date: 3/3/2009 10:23:21 AM
Author:Bimbi

Hello Everyone.



My boyfriend and I made an appointment with an estate jeweler recommended to me by people on this website to look at estate rings and loose diamonds. I was wondering if someone can provide a list of specifications we need to look at to make sure that we are getting a good stone. Based on what I''ve read in these forums, we need to get a very good cut, stay in the higher colors and compromise a little on the clarity (please correct me if I''m wrong). However, I have no idea how to read the fluorescence and the %s that people keep giving when they evaluate stones. We will most likely be looking at stones in the 3-4k price range, 1 ct or close to it. I have two settings that I am debating between, one is a bezel setting and one is a halo setting, my boyfriend likes the halo better so I think we will go with that.



I want to make sure that we are armed with as much information as possible so that we don''t seem like we don''t know what we are talking about.



Thanks in advance for your help

Keep in mind that a stone slightly under the "magic" 1ct mark will be much less in price with negligible difference in diameter. A quick search on James Allen shows several ~.95ct rounds in your price range. A well cut H or I color "eye clean" SI1 stone should be able to fit into your 3000-3500 budget and will still be very beautiful. I''m sure some of the more accomplished diamond seekers on the site can find you an appropriate stone.
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,022
Date: 3/3/2009 10:56:59 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/3/2009 10:47:10 AM
Author: Bimbi
Thanks.

The reason we started looking at oecs was that our budget is limited. Do you think we can find a good RB for 3-3500 that is worth the money. I have been looking at white flash and blue nile and the do have some diamonds in that price range, however, I am not sure if they are worth buying. I am a very visual person and it''s hard for me to buy something online. We were thinking of going to the NYC diamond district and we will still go for educational purposes even I like something on thursday, but reading the posts here it seems shopping online is the better option.
You could get something like this, a little under a carat but great cut, J colour which will still be very white and in budget if you paid by bank wire.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1114622.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

Here is another, you would need to check it is eyeclean by asking the vendor. Even though it is AGS0 cut grade I would definitely want an Idealscope image for this configuration and looking at the photo, James Allen would be able to provide one.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218700.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
Nice find, Lorelei.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/3/2009 11:09:22 AM
Author: jet2ks

Date: 3/3/2009 10:56:59 AM
Author: Lorelei


Date: 3/3/2009 10:47:10 AM
Author: Bimbi
Thanks.

The reason we started looking at oecs was that our budget is limited. Do you think we can find a good RB for 3-3500 that is worth the money. I have been looking at white flash and blue nile and the do have some diamonds in that price range, however, I am not sure if they are worth buying. I am a very visual person and it''s hard for me to buy something online. We were thinking of going to the NYC diamond district and we will still go for educational purposes even I like something on thursday, but reading the posts here it seems shopping online is the better option.
You could get something like this, a little under a carat but great cut, J colour which will still be very white and in budget if you paid by bank wire.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1114622.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

Here is another, you would need to check it is eyeclean by asking the vendor. Even though it is AGS0 cut grade I would definitely want an Idealscope image for this configuration and looking at the photo, James Allen would be able to provide one.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1218700.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
Nice find, Lorelei.
Thanks!!
I must admit this one looks good!
 

Bimbi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
35
WOW, this looks unbelievable. I sent it to my boyfriend too look at also. Is the second one more expensive because it has a Hearts and Arrows cut. Are this type of diamonds worth the money.

So now, if I wanted to get more info on the first one or buy it, who should I contact at James Allen to talk about it some more. Do you have someone you can recommend.
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,022
The second one is more because it is higher color, ideal cut H&A, and AGS certified instead of GIA. Each one of these factors raises the price a little, in combination, they account for the difference. On your finger, I don't think you will see any difference at all.

The J-VS2 is listed as a Very Good cut by GIA instead of Excellent because of the polish. If the polish was Very Good, it would probably be an Excellent cut. The good news for you is that it is nearly impossible to tell the difference between Good polish and Very Good polish with the naked eye, but causes the price to be lower. I can't see how you would go wrong with this stone. The numbers and picture look great and JA has an excellent return policy.

I would call James Allen immediately to put the stone on hold so that it doesn't get poached by a lurker. Their staff is very good, Darin in particular seems to get good reviews on Pricescope.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/3/2009 11:42:49 AM
Author: Bimbi
WOW, this looks unbelievable. I sent it to my boyfriend too look at also. Is the second one more expensive because it has a Hearts and Arrows cut. Are this type of diamonds worth the money.

So now, if I wanted to get more info on the first one or buy it, who should I contact at James Allen to talk about it some more. Do you have someone you can recommend.
The second is a higher colour and has the AGS0 cut grade which can account for the price difference. What I would do is contact James Allen ASAP, now that the first diamond has been posted it is prey for lurker poaching, so get it reserved as soon as you can. You can contact Josh at JA, he has a great rep but they are a good team and will be pleased to help you! You can also request an Idealscope image of the first diamond, it looks great but it would be nice to have to confirm the numbers.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
LOL Jet - great minds think alike, especially with the poaching!!
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,022
Date: 3/3/2009 11:58:16 AM
Author: Lorelei
LOL Jet - great minds think alike, especially with the poaching!!
So do poor minds, but since we know which category you fall in, I''ll take the compliment.
 

Bimbi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
35
Ok, so I called Josh. He was very very nice and gave me so much information about this diamond and diamonds in general. He was not pushy at all and sounded very objective in what he said about the different types of cuts and diamonds.

He recommended a few other diamonds that fit my budget which he will send to me. I will post them as I get them. He STRONGLY recommended a 0.84 h-color, eye clean SI1, hearts and arrows diamond that is also within my budget. He said there is no visible difference between 0.84 and 0.92. My boyfriend thinks 0.84 is too small. What do you think. John also said that I should definitely go with a hearts and arrows one instead of a regular cut as they look better and appear larger.

This is so overwhelming. I am nervous that I will choose a diamond, buy it, and then look on his website again and see something even better for that price. How do you make a decision.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/3/2009 1:34:22 PM
Author: Bimbi
Ok, so I called Josh. He was very very nice and gave me so much information about this diamond and diamonds in general. He was not pushy at all and sounded very objective in what he said about the different types of cuts and diamonds.

He recommended a few other diamonds that fit my budget which he will send to me. I will post them as I get them. He STRONGLY recommended a 0.84 h-color, eye clean SI1, hearts and arrows diamond that is also within my budget. He said there is no visible difference between 0.84 and 0.92. My boyfriend thinks 0.84 is too small. What do you think. John also said that I should definitely go with a hearts and arrows one instead of a regular cut as they look better and appear larger.

This is so overwhelming. I am nervous that I will choose a diamond, buy it, and then look on his website again and see something even better for that price. How do you make a decision.
I disagree that you should definitely go with a h&a diamond actually, it depends on what you prefer. A h&a diamond won't necessarily look better than a non h&a if the non h&a diamond has good proportions which are proven with Idealscope or ASET images. I see no reason to not investigate the J colour further, ask him to provide an Idealscope image for the diamond so we can get a better idea of how it looks. It may have good polish ( which looks the same as the higher polish grades to the naked untrained eye apparently) but the lab graded symmetry is excellent and the optical symmetry appears to be very good too, the diamond is even showing a good arrow pattern from the photo.

As to finding something better after the purchase has been made, thats always the way or it seems to be!! Make a list of your priorities such as size etc as an example, then we can see how best to meet that.

See what he comes up with then we can take a look but in the end go with the one that fits your needs the best.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
42,064
Date: 3/3/2009 12:02:56 PM
Author: jet2ks

Date: 3/3/2009 11:58:16 AM
Author: Lorelei
LOL Jet - great minds think alike, especially with the poaching!!
So do poor minds, but since we know which category you fall in, I''ll take the compliment.
* Blush...* You are too kind jet!!!
 

Bimbi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
35
Here is the hearts and arrows one

Shape:Round
Lab:AGS
Pic:razz:hoto
Carat weight:0.84
Cut:H&A
Color:H
Clarity:SI1
Depth:62.1
Table:54.8
Polish:Ideal
Symmetry:Ideal
Girdle:Thin to slightly thick
Culet:None
Fluorescence:Negligible
Measurements:6.03*6.08*3.76

 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
42,064
Do you have the angles and images for this one? It is facing up a bit smaller than the J VS as it would do for the weight.
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,022
I understand where Josh is coming from. Yes, a well cut diamond will appear larger than a poorly cut one, but just because one is a H&A doesn't necessarily mean it has better cut and proportions. Also, he is right that there is not much difference between a .84 and a .92, but what about a .84 to a 1ct (which is the size you started with)? You would notice a difference here. A .84 is much closer to a 3/4 carat stone than a 1 carat.

I agree with Lorelei. Make a list of your priorities and share them with Josh. If you want to be near 1ct, decide what the smallest size you are willing to go is and stick to that--there are well cut stones out there in that range. If H&A is more important, you will have to sacrifice size to get it.

Did you place the J on hold, just in case? (If you ask for an Ideal-scope, they will hold it until 24hrs after the IS is done--this is a good way to hold a stone longer than just a 24hr hold.)
 

jet2ks

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,022

Bimbi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
35
I placed a hold on the J-one just in case. You are right, I do want a 1ct and I would not like to get anything that''s closer to a 0.75.

On a separate note, I had emailed Sarah at goodoldgold and she just sent me two hearts and arrows stones. One of them has the same specs as the one that Josh sent me and they both are well over 3k. Is jamesallen generally less expensive than whiteflash and goodoldgold
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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42,064
Date: 3/3/2009 2:42:42 PM
Author: Bimbi
I placed a hold on the J-one just in case. You are right, I do want a 1ct and I would not like to get anything that's closer to a 0.75.

On a separate note, I had emailed Sarah at goodoldgold and she just sent me two hearts and arrows stones. One of them has the same specs as the one that Josh sent me and they both are well over 3k. Is jamesallen generally less expensive than whiteflash and goodoldgold
I think JA may be generally a bit less expensive than the other 2 vendors, but it depends. Also GOG and WF have generous upgrade policies, if this might ever be a consideration you might want to read the terms and conditions of these compared to James Allen's.

Thats good you have the J on hold, if it matters to you to get as close to 1ct as possible then thats what to aim for, don't be talked into a smaller diamond if the cut is good on the larger one and you prefer it.
 
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