Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Chipping a diamond

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Is a diamond liable to be chipped when resizing a ring smaller or is there more chance of it being chipped when the stone is set originally?
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
For most diamond solitaire rings, resizing smaller or larger is not a problem. The pressure exerted on the shank does not usually travel up into the traditional "tiffany style" head, for example, except in extreme cases.

On certain rings where the setting is integral with the shank (bezel and channel settings in particular), sizing it larger will (somtimes) exert stress on the diamond. Jewelers will usually avoid this by "ovaling" the shank instead of keeping it round when making it larger, or sometimes (rarely) remove the diamond, size the ring, and reset the diamond.

The setting of a diamond is a more likely time for chipping to occur than resizing.

I saw your other post about chips vs naturals. Sometimes the two are difficult for the layperson to differentiate between. A diamond chip usually has a textured, splintery, stairstep appearance to it. A natural is usually shinier, sometimes with little triangular marks in it.

Naturals are quite common on a lot of diamonds. Chances are good that you're seeing one on your diamond. Look on the exact opposite side of the diamond and see if you see a little "patch" of original diamond skin (a natural) as well. They're often positioned exactly opposite from one another, showing that the cutter maximized the yield from the octahedral crystal. Sometimes you'll see four spaced equidistant around the diamond.

If you have a chip under a prong, there's always the possibility that it occured after being set. A good "knock" on the prong will sometimes cause chipping.

I'd have a professional take a look at your stone for peace of mind. Most can tell you right away whether you're looking at a chip or a natural. Don't go to a mall store clerk or salesperson though. These people have just enough knowledge to be dangerous. Find a gemologist, diamond setter or professional jeweler. These are the guys that will know.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Thank you. I notice that after my ring was resized smaller to a 4 and 1/2 and it is a solitaire six prong that two of the prongs no longer touch the diamond but where the mark is at is to the side of a prong which is still in its proper place.

I know that I will need to get the two prongs tightened to fit onto the stone. I figure however that since these two prongs have loosened that the other prong probably did not affect the stone but do not have the expertise to really know.

By the way the stone is set in a very high setting I don't know if this makes any difference.

Read your post again and you said that sizing it larger will sometimes exert pressure on the stone is this the same when sizing it "smaller"?


My setting is like this

http://www.beaverbrooks.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=Products.ShowListProductDetails&OpenCatNo=6&ProductID=2684&NextProduct=3369&PrevProduct=2634&ClientID=512122&UID=3AA2D050-4EDC-4F95-BAD169113258ED0C


Do you think they loosened the prongs before resizing - one was the left prong on the right shoulder and the other was the middle prong at the back? or Would this have loosened itself during resizing?

(The mark is one the bottom two thirds of the diamond girdle and into a bit of the pavillion lower girdle facet.)
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
What a nice looking setting.

-----------
Read your post again and you said that sizing it larger will sometimes exert pressure on the stone
is this the same when sizing it "smaller"?
-----------

When a ring is sized larger, the shank is cut on the bottom, then spread to allow a piece of gold wire to be soldered in that section. This spreading creates pressure which travels up in the direction of the "head". The more integral the head is with the shank the more chance of that pressure being transmitted up to the girdle of the diamond. Too much, and you can get a chip.

When a ring is sized smaller, a piece of the shank is cut out at the bottom, with the shank then being pulled together. This creates the opposite pressure of that described above, a "pulling" instead of a "pushing". The more integral the head is with the shank the more chance of that "pulling" affecting the head, possibly resulting in the loosening of the diamond.

This sounds like it might have happened in your case. I'm guessing the ring was originally a size 6.5, and then sized down two sizes to a 4.5. This might have caused your diamond to loosen slightly, and the jeweler didn't notice it. It's no problem for him to tighten it up.

This "pulling" pressure would not, however, be likely to chip your diamond. The pressure is in the wrong direction to do that. It sounds like rather, that it is a natural your looking at. The description of the "mark" being in the "bottom two thirds of the diamond girdle and into a bit of the pavillion lower girdle facet" sounds like a typical natural.

Personally, I think naturals are kind of cool. They give you an indentifying characteristic that you can always recognize your diamond by.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Thank you for your reply.

When I go to get the prongs tightened will it be a simple job or will they have to recut grooves into the prongs.

I take it the stone is not secure when two of the prongs are loose on top?
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
-----------
When I go to get the prongs tightened will it be a simple job or will
they have to recut grooves into the prongs.
-----------

Simple job of tightening, with no re-notching necessary.

-----------
I take it the stone is not secure when two of the prongs are loose on
top?
-----------

If a diamnond is loose enough where you can grab it with your fingernails and turn it, it should be retightened. If there are six prongs and four or five of the prongs extend over the top of the girdle then the diamond's probably not going anywhere, but I'd get it tightened as soon as possible for peace-of-mind.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Okay, Richard Sherwood, I need some advice.

I went to a jeweller today to get them to look at the stone and they said as the mark, I thought was a chip, was so far under the prong they could not say for definite if it was a chip or just an inclusion as there is an inclusion at the same spot and that setting the stone could have damaged it also. He also said that I should bring it back to where I bought it (now over 1 year ago) as they will need to turn the stone to look.

I know the jeweller I bought from is a national chain and that their diamonds although SI1 do sometimes have little surface inclusions. When I went there they said it was probably just a surface inclusion but are sending it to get their gemologist to look at it. She also said that only a diamond can chip a diamond (scratch yes but I believe that her information is pure wrong from what I read here). She said this twice and that she did not know why the other jeweller had said it could have happened during setting as that was not true and only a diamond could chip a diamond.

Now when the ring comes back in two weeks I am expecting them to say it is a surface inclusion. I know that I have not knocked the ring as I have never worn it YET. The ring was sized though.

I am pretty sure this is one of their surface inclusions. Are diamonds supposed to have surface inclusions though in the SI1 category. It is SI1 by their own grading no certificate but it is loupe clean. Remember this is not a deep inclusion and can only be seen with a loupe. This is one of the better national chains and the stones seem to have most of their inclusions around the surface and very clean inside the stone.

The first jeweller I went to said they would not get involved in it and that I should bring the ring back to where it was bought, which I did. Maybe he thought as it is in an unworn state that it was newly bought.

Before I went back with the ring to the national chain store, I was to another jeweller a couple of doors up the road. There the jeweller looked at it and said he thought it was an internal inclusion, he went and got a second opinion from another jeweller on the premises who said it was internal and not a chip.

The reason I think it is a surface reaching inclusion is because part of the inclusion is definitely internal but part of it looks like it breaks the surface but is polished over as this part which is in a v shape is smooth and light reflects of it evenly.

How common are surface inclusions in SI1 stones?

There are no appraisers in Scotland that I know of, I have had rings with diamonds appraised before for insurance and although they came out at about the price I paid, the appraisal only had carat weight and nothing about clarity or colour on them. I feel I am not getting a definite answer from the jewellers.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
As Richard is not on the forum at the moment can anyone else help with some advice?
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Well the plot thickens. I need advice before I go silly.

The jeweller who looked at my ring originally said it was impossible to tell if it was a chip without turning the stone as a good part of it is under the prong.

I asked my jeweller if when they look at the stone can they leave it turned so that I can see the mark. They are saying they never unset a stone and as their director is a gemmologist he will know what to do?

What can I do now?
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
As one jeweller has said it is impossible to tell what is under the prong of my diamond without turning the stone (can only see some surface inclusions from the side of the prong)and he has already looked at it with a loupe.

Therefore, can you tell me how another jeweller, the jeweller I am using, is is going to tell me when it has been made clear to me that they will only look and not unset or turn the stone? I was told that "as the director (jeweller) is a gemologist he would know what to do". As the ring was bought from them I have no other option the other jeweller will not get involved as they could blame him if there is a chip. However they "never unset a stone", I was told.

I need one of the experts here to tell me what they think! Please.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
I would think that as the owner of the stone, you can have it turned any way you please.

There's no "unsetting" to it. Just loosen the prongs, turn the diamond, and tighten them. Child's play.

Tell them you'd like to have it done. Tell them you prefer to have all your inclusions out in plain sight. Be nice, but firm.
 

justme

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
184
Pyramid,

Why not ease all your fears - ship your ring to Rich and he'll tell you everything you want to know about it and set the diamond as you want it?

Justme
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Well that is what I thought but they will not do it. Maybe the gemologist and Director is just an office person now and does not work with jewellers tools. Maybe it is because it is a national chainstore.

I have asked twice but they say 'no they never do this type of thing'. I thought some of their customers may ask for similar things maybe for different reasons but apparently not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    What is White Gold?
    What is White Gold?
    Push Present: Engagement Ring Upgrade
    Push Present: Engagement Ring Upgrade
    20th Anniversary Upgrade
    20th Anniversary Upgrade

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top