Chip Repair Possible? Suggestions?
- Thread starter kcgunesq
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Thanks. I don''t even know when it happened. My grandmother was 94 when she passed away a couple of years ago.
I also have this ring (from a different relative) and I''d like to know if there is someway to combine the two if the stone above is worth re-cutting. Embedded in this question is whether this diamond and sapphire ring is worth anything.
I also have this ring (from a different relative) and I''d like to know if there is someway to combine the two if the stone above is worth re-cutting. Embedded in this question is whether this diamond and sapphire ring is worth anything.
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I really love the setting the diamond is in! That was a beautiful stone, and it is sad that it is chipped. There are some diamond cutters around here, so maybe someone will see your post. I hope it can be repaired!
I really like the sapphire and diamond band, but I would not alter it. I'd wear it as a right hand ring.
I really like the sapphire and diamond band, but I would not alter it. I'd wear it as a right hand ring.
strmrdr
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sentimental reasons would likely be the only reason too fix it.
I wouldnt do a full recut and just try and have the affected area polished and blended by a master cutter.
I would talk too Bill Bray about it.
http://www.brayscore.com/contact.cfm?Contact
I wouldnt do a full recut and just try and have the affected area polished and blended by a master cutter.
I would talk too Bill Bray about it.
http://www.brayscore.com/contact.cfm?Contact
strmrdr
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Definitely worth recutting. You can repair it with minimal weight loss, you can do a full recut for more weight loss, you can keep it as an Old Euro, you can cut it as a modern round brilliant, there are so many options, but they are there for you to choose from.
Bill Bray is an excellent cutter, he just repaired an old Euro for me this week, lost a total of one point on a fairly nasty looking chip.
Good luck with your decision and your repaired diamond, never want to let an heirloom be destroyed if you can help it!
Wink
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Show it to a pro. Repair is worth the trouble and it can be a bit complicated. Damage like this is more common than most people think but not all jewelers are experienced with the issues around recutting and/or repairs. It involves some specialized sorts of tools and skills that few jewelers have in the store and they will usually need to use an outside service and most of THEM don’t have a showroom where they can see customers. Several of the good appraisers are experienced at this sort of thing. Yes, it’s going to be worth the trouble.
Yes, you can combine these two to make something either by simply recycling the materials or by using the sapphire ring as a band and building a setting in the center to hold the stone or by starting over with a completely new design and recycling the materials. This is a job for a good custom designer but you should deal with the diamond repair first so that the designer knows exactly what he/she has to work with.
Nice pictures by the way.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
Yes, you can combine these two to make something either by simply recycling the materials or by using the sapphire ring as a band and building a setting in the center to hold the stone or by starting over with a completely new design and recycling the materials. This is a job for a good custom designer but you should deal with the diamond repair first so that the designer knows exactly what he/she has to work with.
Nice pictures by the way.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
LegacyGirl
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elmo
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Bill''s is about the only diamond cutter that gets mentioned here but there are other "master cutters" who do this sort of work - as Neil said an appraiser can help you determine what''s needed and can help you find the right craftsman. For some work I had done Bill wasn''t able to help and even said he didn''t think anyone did the sort of thing I was looking for. However I ended up finding someone else (Neil''s seen the result) which I''m very pleased with.
I spoke to Tom Tivol in Kansas City today. I''m going to get the rings into him in the next week or so. After I consult with him, if he thinks it worth pursuing, he''ll send it to a cutter in NYC for me. At the same time, I will have him clean, polish and if needed, re-plate the other ring.
Does anyone have any thoughts on how likely the shank can be repaired? I assume its not too difficult.
Also, everyone in my family tries to tell me diamond setting is plat, but it says "14k", so that can''t be correct. Is it likely that the setting/prongs in this 70-80 year old ring were plat and that this could be the source of confusion? What does the "PALL." or "TT" mean next to the "14k" stamp? I wouldn''t think it means palladium, but I''m not sure why I think it wouldn''t be, except that maybe I have the misformed belief that palladium is a relatively recent arrival to consumer jewelry.
Does anyone have any thoughts on how likely the shank can be repaired? I assume its not too difficult.
Also, everyone in my family tries to tell me diamond setting is plat, but it says "14k", so that can''t be correct. Is it likely that the setting/prongs in this 70-80 year old ring were plat and that this could be the source of confusion? What does the "PALL." or "TT" mean next to the "14k" stamp? I wouldn''t think it means palladium, but I''m not sure why I think it wouldn''t be, except that maybe I have the misformed belief that palladium is a relatively recent arrival to consumer jewelry.
strmrdr
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strmrdr
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Thanks. That sounds like a good tip. However, I think I will use my local guy for several reasons. First, I''m trying to build a relationship with him. Second, I like talking with him about the subject and I really want his thoughts on options. Third, I''ll probably want the appraisal in any event. If the ring is worth more than $1,500 or so, I''d probably want to schedule it on my insurance. I think our home owner''s policy covers $5k in jewelry, but only $500 per item if its not scheduled. If its worth less than that, I probably wouldn''t schedule it, but I''d still want some sort of evidence of value in case of loss.
But if for some reason it doesn''t work out, I''ll make Bill my next call.
Thanks again for the great tip!
elmo
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The guy I worked with seemed pleased to take a private client. Maybe unlike the prosumers here folks with a repair are really going to need a full service jeweler for this - to unset the stone, arrange for properly insured shipping, reset with care, polish and maybe plate a WG setting. A cutter probably doesn't want to deal with any of this.
Agreed. But part of the purpose of PS is to share experience and information. From reading the posts here you'd think Bill walks on water
I had my appointment today. The diamond was estimated to weigh between 1 and 1.07ct prior to the chip. He said it is almost certainly a colorless diamond. He estimated that recut as an old euro it will probably come out in the 80pt range. Cut to a modern RB, it would likely be in the 70pt range. Repairing the diamond and setting, he believes it will have an approximate retail value of $6,000.
He is going to send the diamond to his cutter who he said will be able to estimate the likely final weight within 1 or 2 points. At that point, I can make the final decision to proceed with recutting. The cost for this work should be about $200.
The sapphire and diamond ring he estimated as having a retail value of $1,200. He is going to some very minor repair work on one of the bars holding one of the sapphires, polish and re-plate it. Cost of this work ~$100.
Thoughts?
He is going to send the diamond to his cutter who he said will be able to estimate the likely final weight within 1 or 2 points. At that point, I can make the final decision to proceed with recutting. The cost for this work should be about $200.
The sapphire and diamond ring he estimated as having a retail value of $1,200. He is going to some very minor repair work on one of the bars holding one of the sapphires, polish and re-plate it. Cost of this work ~$100.
Thoughts?
I heard from my appraiser today. He spoke to the cutter. The repaired stone will way between 73 and 74 points after repair if cut as an old euro and approximately 56 points if cut as a modern RB. I told him to stick with the euro. Cost for re-cutting is $233 which includes the cutter''s fee, shipping & insur both ways and our appraiser/jeweler''s markup.
Now I have several questions about having it set.
First, the family records say that the diamond was reset in white gold after she had her original platinum band cut off years ago. Based upon the pictures, is there any way this is white gold, perhaps that has just lost all plating?
Second, assuming that this is yellow gold, how easy is it to replicate this setting? Is it as simple as making a casting of the old ring?
Third, although I anticipated having the new setting made of 18k white gold, it turns out that we found my grandmother''s platinum wedding band. I''m tempted to simply keep the band as-is due to some engraving on it, but I''m also tempted to have it used to make the new setting as at least the new setting would have some of the same metal from her original wedding ring set. If we choose to melt the band down, but don''t want to spend the $$ for an all platinum setting, what are some specific white plat alloys we should ask about? Would a 50-50 alloy of say plat and palladium be a good combination?
Fourth, my grandmother called the side stones novettes or navettes (??). I assume these are diamonds, but it appears to me that you can see through them. Likely not diamonds? I know its probably hard or impossible to tell from photographs.
Sorry for all of the questions, but I''d like to have some of the issues thought out before I discuss our options with our appraiser/jewler.
Now I have several questions about having it set.
First, the family records say that the diamond was reset in white gold after she had her original platinum band cut off years ago. Based upon the pictures, is there any way this is white gold, perhaps that has just lost all plating?
Second, assuming that this is yellow gold, how easy is it to replicate this setting? Is it as simple as making a casting of the old ring?
Third, although I anticipated having the new setting made of 18k white gold, it turns out that we found my grandmother''s platinum wedding band. I''m tempted to simply keep the band as-is due to some engraving on it, but I''m also tempted to have it used to make the new setting as at least the new setting would have some of the same metal from her original wedding ring set. If we choose to melt the band down, but don''t want to spend the $$ for an all platinum setting, what are some specific white plat alloys we should ask about? Would a 50-50 alloy of say plat and palladium be a good combination?
Fourth, my grandmother called the side stones novettes or navettes (??). I assume these are diamonds, but it appears to me that you can see through them. Likely not diamonds? I know its probably hard or impossible to tell from photographs.
Sorry for all of the questions, but I''d like to have some of the issues thought out before I discuss our options with our appraiser/jewler.
Palladium isn''t new at all - it was definitely used in the US during WWII, when platinum had more pressing practical uses, and I seem to recall hearing about it used in the ''20s as a less-expensive substitute for platinum. It''s merely a recent re-arrival in widespread amounts to consumer jewelry, probably driven by the incredibly high price for platinum, and a trend for white gold combined with awareness that nickel alloys cause some people (like me) problems.
Cleo
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How lovely that you are getting the stone recut, and keeping it as an old european - I think that''s wonderful! I was very interested to learn the price for doing the work too (thankyou for sharing that with us) and thought it was very reasonable.
Please do keep us updated of your project to restore your grandmother''s jewellery, with photos if possible - I am sure many PSers will be fascinated with the recutting of the stone, and the re-using of the original metals where possible... it is a delightful story.
x x x
Please do keep us updated of your project to restore your grandmother''s jewellery, with photos if possible - I am sure many PSers will be fascinated with the recutting of the stone, and the re-using of the original metals where possible... it is a delightful story.
x x x
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I''m sorry, but I don''t know. They were married in 1940. Although we have a limited oral history about my grandmother receiving a "letter of introduction" from her employer to the jeweler and some notes about a couple of resettings, I don''t have anything with the measurements.
The appraiser measured the stone when we had him evaluate it for re-cutting. He estimated its pre-chip weight at between 1.03 and 1.07 ct and he described the shape as a "roval", the color as colorless and the clarity as "probably I2" (with the chip). After it is recut, he is going to give us a full writeup, which I assume will contain dimensions.
Sorry I can''t answer your questions.
I did some B&M research today for replacement settings. I started at Jared because I found what I thought was a setting very similar to my grandmothers on their web page. Turns out, it used pave side stones, not marquis like her original. But as I was talking to the clerk, who I have to admit has always been very courteous and helpful, I asked a couple of questions about their products.
First, I wanted to know if any of their white gold settings were nickel free. He had to ask someone, who I assume was their bench person, and the answer was no. Although they said they could custom make one for me. Due to my wife''s skin allergy, she can''t wear nickel alloys at less than 18k.
I also asked if they had any plat alloys with cobalt as I''ve heard that alloy maintains its shine longer. The bench person said "I don''t think they''ve used cobalt for like 50 years, and it wouldn''t make a difference because the platinum is so pure, the small amount of cobalt wouldn''t change the properties of platinum.
Our next stop was an independent, 1 store B&M that I had never been to before. Their store was nice with a decent inventory (Tacori, Rolex etc). They were extremely helpful in giving me some advice and suggestions. They said they could make a wax impression of the original ring for about $400. It sounded like the cost of the ring would be the $400 plus material costs. But maybe there is some additional fabrication cost? Does this sound right? If that is the case, then using the plat band we have might be an attractive idea, especially if we''d only have to add 3-5 grams extra.
If I were to use the old ring to cast a new one, would it make a nice ring to alloy the existing plat (presumably 950IR) with plat950-co, plat950ru, palladium or 18k white gold?
Is there a general preference for a particular plat alloy here?
First, I wanted to know if any of their white gold settings were nickel free. He had to ask someone, who I assume was their bench person, and the answer was no. Although they said they could custom make one for me. Due to my wife''s skin allergy, she can''t wear nickel alloys at less than 18k.
I also asked if they had any plat alloys with cobalt as I''ve heard that alloy maintains its shine longer. The bench person said "I don''t think they''ve used cobalt for like 50 years, and it wouldn''t make a difference because the platinum is so pure, the small amount of cobalt wouldn''t change the properties of platinum.
Our next stop was an independent, 1 store B&M that I had never been to before. Their store was nice with a decent inventory (Tacori, Rolex etc). They were extremely helpful in giving me some advice and suggestions. They said they could make a wax impression of the original ring for about $400. It sounded like the cost of the ring would be the $400 plus material costs. But maybe there is some additional fabrication cost? Does this sound right? If that is the case, then using the plat band we have might be an attractive idea, especially if we''d only have to add 3-5 grams extra.
If I were to use the old ring to cast a new one, would it make a nice ring to alloy the existing plat (presumably 950IR) with plat950-co, plat950ru, palladium or 18k white gold?
Is there a general preference for a particular plat alloy here?
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