"Chinese" virus renaming

[lovedogs]

She had many pages of evidences, I think she was ready to show them to the asking reporters if they wanted to look or check themselves.

Evidence of what? There is no "evidence" of anything. She claims that POTUS is just trying to "tell the truth" about where the virus comes from. Except that's nonsense, because viruses aren't named for their country of origin and Trump knows that. Everyone accepts that the virus started in China. But calling it the "Chinese virus", "kung flu", or any other such idiotic name has caused Asian people to be harassed and therefore is unhelpful and offensive. Trump is too stupid (and/or pandering to racists) to care about that fact. So whatever "proof" his secretary has is useless and irrelevant.

 

[Buttercookies]

You have Trump to thank for China's current position of power. You'll have yourself to thank for helping China out with Trump in power for another four years.

Incorrect. China current power in the world stage is due to Bill Clinton welcoming China to WTO.

 

[sstephensid]

The racism in this thread is overwhelming. As is the faux innocent cry that everything the left dislikes is labeled racist.

I don’t think anyone forgets where the virus originated from. Even if they did, calling it the Kung Flu is horrendous.

 

[Musia]

Evidence of what? There is no "evidence" of anything. She claims that POTUS is just trying to "tell the truth" about where the virus comes from. Except that's nonsense, because viruses aren't named for their country of origin and Trump knows that. Everyone accepts that the virus started in China. But calling it the "Chinese virus", "kung flu", or any other such idiotic name has caused Asian people to be harassed and therefore is unhelpful and offensive. Trump is too stupid (and/or pandering to racists) to care about that fact. So whatever "proof" his secretary has is useless and irrelevant.

She had evidences of CNN, New York Times and others calling the virus Chinese earlier in January and February. I personally call it Corona. I will ask my son in law who is 50% Chinese and his mom who is 100% Chinese whether someone blamed them or now. I live in Cupertino, CA and there are more Asian people here than in other areas of California, I believe. Never saw or heard any offences toward Chinese or Asians for any reason, Corona including. But I honestly believe since anyone knows about the country of CV origin, there are morons and idiots who do.

 

[voce]

Incorrect. China current power in the world stage is due to Bill Clinton welcoming China to WTO.

One among many factors, just as Trump's ascension was one among many factors. Hillary was tougher on China than Trump in 2016.

If you're not beneath going back 20+ years to blame Clinton, I'm not beneath going back even further to blame Nixon for establishing the precedent of a foreign policy with China that's not based upon common values, but upon a deal.

Just curious, would you rather China be subjected to the trade embargo again, as was the case before Nixon? Keep millions of people impoverished so that they would never be able to challenge the world leader, the USA?

What Clinton did in welcoming China to the WTO resulted in the rise of a Chinese middle class who began to educate themselves about the outside world and start to dream about democracy. There are way more people in Chinese society who aspire to democratic values today than there were at the time of the Tiananmen Square protests/massacre in 1989. In no way would there even exist human rights activists that the CCCP could suppress today if not for what Clinton had done. Opening China up resulted in progress and transformation far exceeding the isolation from 1949-1979, and far outstripping post-Mao progress under Deng. So, in a way, Bill Clinton has advanced human rights in China far more than Trump could...but I suppose you wouldn't care about that.

What some people call Making America Great Again, I see as exposing American weakness, because the American government does not deal compassionately with its own people, let alone positively influencing other nations, which it had done during the Cold War, at least with its own allies.

 

[lovedogs]

She had evidences of CNN, New York Times and others calling the virus Chinese earlier in January and February. I personally call it Corona. I will ask my son in law who is 50% Chinese and his mom who is 100% Chinese whether someone blamed them or now. I live in Cupertino, CA and there are more Asian people here than in other areas of California, I believe. Never saw or heard any offences toward Chinese or Asians for any reason, Corona including. But I honestly believe since anyone knows about the country of CV origin, there are morons and idiots who do.

I agree that people were calling it the Chinese Virus early (as you said, in Jan/Feb). However, they stopped once it became clear that calling the virus by that name (Rather than using the correct terminology) was causing harassment for people of Asian descent, they largely stopped. Trump insisted upon calling it that far after most other people stopped. And either way, even if every news network was insisting on calling it the Chinese virus, would that make it right? No. It would still be wrong.

 

[voce]

She had evidences of CNN, New York Times and others calling the virus Chinese earlier in January and February. I personally call it Corona. I will ask my son in law who is 50% Chinese and his mom who is 100% Chinese whether someone blamed them or now. I live in Cupertino, CA and there are more Asian people here than in other areas of California, I believe. Never saw or heard any offences toward Chinese or Asians for any reason, Corona including. But I honestly believe since anyone knows about the country of CV origin, there are morons and idiots who do.

1) CNN, NYT and other media called it Chinese virus before scientists started using the consensus name, and they have ceased to call it Chinese virus since. Just because a wrong has been done in the past, does not make it still right in the present.

2) Just because you or your family heard saw or heard offense toward Chinese or Asians, doesn't mean there is none. What you and your family experience, and what I and my family experience, are each a tiny sliver of all the experiences that are out there. This tiny sliver cannot be representative of the totality of what Asian Americans have experienced. You are speaking of overt signs of racism, a high burden of proof. Racism is often not explicitly expressed in the open in the form of someone coming up to you and shouting "it's your race that's at fault" for this or that.

I am reminded of the thread on white privilege that nala started. Some people just don't see it or get it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Honestly, I have no idea what the HK flu and London flu are. They're all just flu to me. If those are the official names, that's fine by me, because there's no longer stigma and discrimination resulting from it, if there ever were. The official name for the current pandemic virus is COVID-19; that's the name used by scientists and not coined by racist individuals who had political agendas.

You never heard about the HK flu or the London flu?..so nice to be young.

My friends and I are calling it the Wuhan virus. The left wingers can call it the Trump virus if it make them feel better.

 

[voce]

got it!...If you don't hate your white skin enough then you are a racist...

Oh, I got it, too. Dancing Fire lives in a fantasy world where anything he misinterprets becomes true.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Oh, I got it, too. Dancing Fire lives in a fantasy world where anything he misinterprets becomes true.

Where am I wrong about so called "white privilege" ?
If you are white and you don't back the BLM movement then you will be labeled as a racist.

 

[voce]

Where am I wrong about so called "white privilege" ?
If you are white and you don't back the BLM movement then you will be labeled as a racist.

You're wrong in quoting something I said that has nothing to do with what you said. You're the one who drew a link and a conclusion where none was meant.

I am reminded of the white privilege thing because some people see it and some don't, similar to how some people see racism in "kung flu" while others don't. It's something without a universal consensus. That's all I meant. If you're quoting me to draw a completely different conclusion, that's completely misinterpreting my words. I don't know what the intent was with quoting me. It feels like you're framing me for being reverse racist when I'm not?

I don't think anyone who happens to benefit from white privilege or does not happen to recognize white privilege is racist based on that alone. White privilege doesn't exist everywhere, so it's OK if somebody doesn't see it in their personal life. But the lack of something in your own personal life is also no reason to believe that it does not exist anywhere.

 

[Tekate]

It is racist, THIS IS your problem Karl, you don't get it, it's not if YOU think it's racist it's what Asians think.

White House press secretary says Trump's racist 'kung flu' comment was 'linking' the coronavirus 'to its place of origin' | Business Insider India

Trump's top aide Kellyanne Conway condemned the term "kung flu" as "highly offensive" and "wrong" in March.

www.businessinsider.in

You posted a perfect example:
Kung Flu

Poor taste yes, racist not even close.

 

[scouty]

It is racist, THIS IS your problem Karl, you don't get it, it's not if YOU think it's racist it's what Asians think.

White House press secretary says Trump's racist 'kung flu' comment was 'linking' the coronavirus 'to its place of origin' | Business Insider India

Trump's top aide Kellyanne Conway condemned the term "kung flu" as "highly offensive" and "wrong" in March.

www.businessinsider.in

On another thread @Karl_K defended the use of an anti-Semitic symbol by the Trump administration in their campaign adds and proven White Supremacist hand gestures. I suspected no less of him than to think that this was not racist either. I'm just surprised he airs his racist and anti-Semitic thoughts on a public forum to which he is a "Trade member".

 

[Tekate]

Incorrect also. It was this:

1972 visit by Richard Nixon to China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Incorrect. China current power in the world stage is due to Bill Clinton welcoming China to WTO.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Everyone around here says “covid.” Glad I haven’t heard anyone calling it racist names.

 

[Karl_K]

On another thread @Karl_K defended the use of an anti-Semitic symbol by the Trump administration in their campaign adds and proven White Supremacist hand gestures. I suspected no less of him than to think that this was not racist either. I'm just surprised he airs his racist and anti-Semitic thoughts on a public forum to which he is a "Trade member".

If someone thinks a generic red triangle in use millions of places around the world daily is anti-Semetic and the ok sign is racist then they are out there in extremist lefty land.
I refuse to let extremists rule my life.
They think they can just win by attaching labels to people. I reject your labels.

 

[scouty]

If someone thinks a generic red triangle in use millions of places around the world daily is anti-Semetic and the ok sign is racist then they are out there in extremist lefty land.
I refuse to let extremists rule my life.
They think they can just win by attaching labels to people. I reject your labels.

You exposed yourself, I didn’t do anything.

 

[qubitasaurus]

China is not gonna help Trump get reelected they want Biden with Biden being POTUS China will run the US.

Yes I doubt china will interfere in US politics, although like @voce said they may very well prefer Trump.

Regarding the press secretary, honestly the least thing I'd want to hear from my highest office was 10 minutes or so of 'well other people used that phrase on the internet before, so we felt we had free reign to coin it officially'.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes I doubt china will interfere in US politics, although like @voce said they may very well prefer Trump.

I gave these to my chinese friends if they switch to the GOP.

 

[qubitasaurus]

I gave these to my chinese friends if they switch to the GOP.

Lol I am not sure the chinese flag is appropriate though. If they're voting in the american elections then they deserve a variant of the shirt with an american flag.

 

[Buttercookies]

One among many factors, just as Trump's ascension was one among many factors. Hillary was tougher on China than Trump in 2016.

If you're not beneath going back 20+ years to blame Clinton, I'm not beneath going back even further to blame Nixon for establishing the precedent of a foreign policy with China that's not based upon common values, but upon a deal.

Just curious, would you rather China be subjected to the trade embargo again, as was the case before Nixon? Keep millions of people impoverished so that they would never be able to challenge the world leader, the USA?

What Clinton did in welcoming China to the WTO resulted in the rise of a Chinese middle class who began to educate themselves about the outside world and start to dream about democracy. There are way more people in Chinese society who aspire to democratic values today than there were at the time of the Tiananmen Square protests/massacre in 1989. In no way would there even exist human rights activists that the CCCP could suppress today if not for what Clinton had done. Opening China up resulted in progress and transformation far exceeding the isolation from 1949-1979, and far outstripping post-Mao progress under Deng. So, in a way, Bill Clinton has advanced human rights in China far more than Trump could...but I suppose you wouldn't care about that.

What some people call Making America Great Again, I see as exposing American weakness, because the American government does not deal compassionately with its own people, let alone positively influencing other nations, which it had done during the Cold War, at least with its own allies.

So you do agree with me sir that neither Trump nor Clinton are responsible solely for the rise in CCCP in the world stage and while you American are fighting over party politics and delicacies of racism, China is swallowing you whole and spinning propaganda against the US. Yes, they don’t play fair and half of what you read online is CCCP propaganda. While I don’t condone racism against American Chinese, But let’s call a spade a spade. The virus should be call Chinese virus to remind you that CCCP is the solely responsible for this and this isn’t American imported virus. The only party I see who understand what at stakes right now are Republicans.

 

[partgypsy]

Buttercookies, seriously? Trump is spinning his wheels trying to deflect attention from his incoherent, non-science based attitude and approach to the Sars Cov-2. Remember how he said it would just "go away" in April? We lost valuable time having a unified national response, getting PPE, getting testing kits with his denial. To the outcome that China, where it originated, and has a larger and in places higher population density than the US has LESS cases and LESS deaths than the US does! The US in number one! In Covid-19 cases that is. I agree China did do wrong in repressing early reports of the disease (him kind of like how Trump was playing it down...). They are a repressive government, and do not enjoy freedom of press and speech to the same degree we do.
Regardless we as a country need to take responsibility of how we are handling this on our own shores. And we are failing. And Trump eggs on the population of people who don't want to socially distance, don't want to wear masks, by his own actions and words. He even admitted he asked testing to be slowed, so less cases will be found! He is OK harming our public health for how he looks politically. I hear crickets from the conservatives about that.
In summary, it is China's fault that initial reports were repressed. However China as a country, China as a people, China's government is not at fault for the fact that a naturally occurring novel virus (which is contagious and we have no immunity), originated in China and spread. We've known about the likelihood of a pandemic for years (decades even). It could happen anywhere where there is a natural animal reservoir, and there is animal/human interaction (many places in the world). We have to work together, as a country, and hopefully across nations to slow the spread and minimize deaths. Pointing fingers at China, calling it "china virus' does laughably nothing.

 

[Tekate]

Do Jews think it's racist? Come on get real. You can reject all you want BECAUSE you are right wing, simple as that. Rather than read and listen to what those people who are affected by these horrid symbols and feel real hate you say "no it's not real because I say it's not real because I don't want to because I am far right" simple as that, I have said above it's not what YOU feel or think it's the affected parties, are you Jewish? Are you black? you cannot disavow what another feels because "I don't want to" seriously, get out and read something besides all the right wing drivel, compare and contrast, read 2 differing views and research each side, sitting around stuck in your bubble allows you to miss what many young people, old people, people of color, and size and people of different nations think. It's called 'getting woke'

If someone thinks a generic red triangle in use millions of places around the world daily is anti-Semetic and the ok sign is racist then they are out there in extremist lefty land.
I refuse to let extremists rule my life.
They think they can just win by attaching labels to people. I reject your labels.

 

[partgypsy]

And I want to say something that may surprise some, but I sympathize with Trump that this happened during his tenure. It's one of those oh sh*t if not black swan, gray swan events that could have happened under anyone's watch. Pandemics can be highly deadly. We are lucky that this virus is not a black plague or ebola level type fatality and virilence. Then we would see a million people die in the US versus 200,000. What I'm saying is, no matter who was president, most likely nothing would have prevented some spread to the US and some number of deaths in the US. It's a pandemic. We can only focus on what we can control and use best and evolving medical and epidemiological information to limit its spread/damage.

 

[Buttercookies]

In summary, it is China's fault that initial reports were repressed. However China as a country, China as a people, China's government is not at fault for the fact that a naturally occurring novel virus (which is contagious and we have no immunity), originated in China and spread.

I agree that Trump admin did a horrid job of preparing this nation. Additionally, he is living in an alternate universe of truth. But he is right when it comes to keeping CCP accountable.

Partgypsy, the CCP failure to regulate the capture, slaughter, and consumption of wildlife in wet markets is exactly why it was the perfect environment for novel virus. When you have a government so ruthless and brutal and doesn't care about their people who are living in the slums of the wet market, this is what you see.

 

[partgypsy]

I love animals and I feel we are not doing enough collectively to protect wildlife and endangered animals, so yes I'm definitely not "for" wet markets. But I'm not really sure what we politcally do, given as we are not citizens in that country, and it seems culturally wildlife is going to be captured and killed and eaten (as both delicacies and for traditional medicine) regardless if there is a physical "wet market" or not. I do hope there is more regulations protecting animals (and by association) us in the futur (win/win). Maybe there will be global pressure to crack down on the sale/trade of wildlife. I do want to point out It is still unclear whether the first outbreak was at the wet market or elsewhere. I have heard there may have been multiple outbreaks of animal to human in late 2019, possibly in more than one location, before it reliably started spreading human to human.

 

[jaaron]

I agree that Trump admin did a horrid job of preparing this nation. Additionally, he is living in an alternate universe of truth. But he is right when it comes to keeping CCP accountable.

Partgypsy, the CCP failure to regulate the capture, slaughter, and consumption of wildlife in wet markets is exactly why it was the perfect environment for novel virus. When you have a government so ruthless and brutal and doesn't care about their people who are living in the slums of the wet market, this is what you see.

Ranting and raving and calling things by scientifically incorrect names is not even remotely how I expect my elected officials to hold a foreign country accountable. If Trump wanted to hold China accountable, he'd stop crawling up their leader's ass and surround himself with some people who actually understand foreign policy, trade and industrial espionage and do something about it.

But he won't. Know why? A. Because he's not smart. B. Because, like Mitch McConnell and his double-dealing, he and all his golfing cronies rely on China for cheap shit (do you think the Trump organisation builds their gold-plated dumps out of US made steel?) to continue amassing their ill-gotten, mostly tax-free gains.

 

[Buttercookies]

Ranting and raving and calling things by scientifically incorrect names is not even remotely how I expect my elected officials to hold a foreign country accountable. If Trump wanted to hold China accountable, he'd stop crawling up their leader's ass and surround himself with some people who actually understand foreign policy, trade and industrial espionage and do something about it.

But he won't. Know why? A. Because he's not smart. B. Because, like Mitch McConnell and his double-dealing, he and all his golfing cronies rely on China for cheap shit (do you think the Trump organisation builds their gold-plated dumps out of US made steel?) to continue amassing their ill-gotten, mostly tax-free gains.

It’s the Tariff sir.

 

[voce]

Partgypsy, the CCP failure to regulate the capture, slaughter, and consumption of wildlife in wet markets is exactly why it was the perfect environment for novel virus. When you have a government so ruthless and brutal and doesn't care about their people who are living in the slums of the wet market, this is what you see.

It's not like Democrats don't have China on the agenda. And what you said there proves you don't know how prevalent wet markets are in other countries, too. There is nobody living at the wet market, and the vicious tone of your language had me wondering who constructed this narrative for you. Trump has been talking China for so long but... What has been the result thus far? You haven't stopped Huawei, only alienated some Chinese citizens against the West. FYI, the CEO of Huawei used to be hardcore pro-West and pro-democracy but now he's not, now you've played him into the camp of the CCP.

If intent and rhetoric are one thing but results are another, I'm someone who cares more about the results than all the vitriole and QQ anyone can spew against China. What I see is that on China, Trump overpromised and undelivered. Calling this virus the China virus is more posturing.

Oh yes, the CCP would LOVE for the US to do as much incorrectly as possible. Would LOVE to see violence against Chinese Americans, so they can frame their own narrative about how America is unfair and uncaring towards Asians. In fact, the more the Americans blame their own problems on the Chinese without taking responsibility for what they themselves got wrong, the easier it is for the CCP to turn Chinese citizens against Americans.

It's so interesting that Trump is undoing all the good that the Clinton administration did in bringing about generations of Chinese who actually want democracy.

 

[Buttercookies]

It's not like Democrats don't have China on the agenda. And what you said there proves you don't know how prevalent wet markets are in other countries, too. There is nobody living at the wet market, and the vicious tone of your language had me wondering who constructed this narrative for you. Trump has been talking China for so long but... What has been the result thus far? You haven't stopped Huawei, only alienated some Chinese citizens against the West. FYI, the CEO of Huawei used to be hardcore pro-West and pro-democracy but now he's not, now you've played him into the camp of the CCP.

If intent and rhetoric are one thing but results are another, I'm someone who cares more about the results than all the vitriole and QQ anyone can spew against China. What I see is that on China, Trump overpromised and undelivered. Calling this virus the China virus is more posturing.

Oh yes, the CCP would LOVE for the US to do as much incorrectly as possible. Would LOVE to see violence against Chinese Americans, so they can frame their own narrative about how America is unfair and uncaring towards Asians. In fact, the more the Americans blame their own problems on the Chinese without taking responsibility for what they themselves got wrong, the easier it is for the CCP to turn Chinese citizens against Americans.

It's so interesting that Trump is undoing all the good that the Clinton administration did in bringing about generations of Chinese who actually want democracy.

I have a friendly tone and how many novel virus you hear coming out of other wet market around the world that become a global pandemic? Your communism sympathizing tone makes me worry that I may have to relocate again as this country is becoming more of what I flee from.