"Chinese" virus renaming

[AGBF]

The virus could have been much worse and the next one just might be and China has proven they can not be trusted. So why hide the facts?

I do not want to hide facts or to cause unnecessary prejudice. We can manage to tell the truth without smearing everything in the world that is Chinese. It is ridiculous to blame Chinese Americans for a virus that started in bats! Yet that has happened due to the actions of the president and his insistence on naming the virus after the country where it happened to originate.

 

[voce]

Calling a virus by a better name is not hiding the facts. @Karl_K are you completely blind to the racism Asian Americans would face if the words Chinese virus are on the news every day, as surely they would be during such a pandemic? The alternative explanation to why 90% of people around you continue to call it the China virus is that you are all racially homogenous and insensitive people who are uncaring about the consequences for Asian Americans. MakingtheGrade has already encountered harassment on her way to work at the ER, and there is some harassment I and some other PS members faced at the grocery store.

 

[lovedogs]

Luckily I have never heard it called this IRL. It's just offensive and unnecessary. Its COVID or COVID19 around here.

 

[jaaron]

They hide the facts because it's a country under authoritarian regime without a free press in which a few leaders have the ability to withhold the truth from their own people and the world. America, under Trump, is rapidly heading in the same direction.

Unsurprisingly, I'm in the offensive, unnecessary and dangerous camp. Why not just call it by its name?

 

[Tekate]

What facts? The facts are:

WHO issues best practices for naming new human infectious diseases

WHO today called on scientists, national authorities and the media to follow best practices in naming new human infectious diseases to minimize unnecessary negative effects on nations, economies and people.

www.who.int

8 MAY 2015 | GENEVA - WHO today called on scientists, national authorities and the media to follow best practices in naming new human infectious diseases to minimize unnecessary negative effects on nations, economies and people.

“In recent years, several new human infectious diseases have emerged. The use of names such as ‘swine flu’ and ‘Middle East Respiratory Syndrome’ has had unintended negative impacts by stigmatizing certain communities or economic sectors,” says Dr Keiji Fukuda, Assistant Director-General for Health Security, WHO. “This may seem like a trivial issue to some, but disease names really do matter to the people who are directly affected. We’ve seen certain disease names provoke a backlash against members of particular religious or ethnic communities, create unjustified barriers to travel, commerce and trade, and trigger needless slaughtering of food animals. This can have serious consequences for peoples’ lives and livelihoods.”

If you are hearing Chinese Virus, Kung Foo Virus, you are hearing uneducated, unread Americans saying this, because since '15 the WHO has requested we no longer want to incur backash against people who have nothing to do with anything but living in a country.

I highly suggest you inform the uneducated you hear saying these negative and derogatory terms to STOP.

my area went majority Hillary in 2016.
Maybe they just dont like hiding facts to be PC.
Not calling it the china virus does not change the fact it came from china and they lied about it and covered it up with the help of who.

 

[AGBF]

I highly suggest you inform the uneducated you hear saying these negative and derogatory terms to STOP.

Oh, Kate. You are wonderful. I wouldn't have thought of that answer, but it is perfect. Of course the best solution is to ask the people one hears calling it that to stop doing so. I am so proud to have you as a friend. (Of course Karl is my friend, too. Whatcha gonna do?)

Hugs,
Deb

 

[JPie]

I expect to hear “Chinese virus” from racists. I have my pepper spray ready for them.

And don’t try to tell me the intent is to “not hide the truth,” because the result is that your fellow Americans feel under attack and have been attacked.

 

[Dancing Fire]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-asked-chinas-xi-to-help-him-win-reelection-according-to-bolton-book/2020/06/17/d4ea601c-ad7a-11ea-868b-93d63cd833b2_story.html

China is not gonna help Trump get reelected they want Biden with Biden being POTUS China will run the US.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Imagine if we have another virus originating in China. What will you call it then, China virus 1 and China virus 2? Wouldn't you confuse yourselves with improper terminology?

So we need a new name for the HK flu and the London flu?

 

[Tekate]

Aw Deb love you too! and we should just stop people from using it, it hurts Asian American's especially.

I'm glad Karl is your friend, I don't know him well, but I always always admire people who have strong beliefs EVEN if they aren't in alignment with mine... how can we learn if all I ever read here is one sided.. and I have friends who are right sided we are ALLLLL good people, especially you! xo

Oh, Kate. You are wonderful. I wouldn't have thought of that answer, but it is perfect. Of course the best solution is to ask the people one hears calling it that to stop doing so. I am so proud to have you as a friend. (Of course Karl is my friend, too. Whatcha gonna do?)

Hugs,
Deb

 

[Buttercookies]

Well, do we all agree we should no longer call it the "Chinese virus"? And blaming China for is meaningless and counterproductive. No one including any government would want this virus to spread. No one has an antidote or vaccine and it is an indiscriminate killer and spreader.

No. The communist party of China (not Chinese civilian) should be held accountable for not containing the viral spread through massive cover up. They killed the Whistleblower Chinese doctor that told the world about the virus. (Yea, I’m pretty sure he was killed but not by he virus) Then they shift gear and blame the USA saying that the virus is “imported” from US products in Wuhan market. Btw, there is a research center within a mile of Wuhan market that researched about Coronavirus in bats. The communist govt refuses to investigate if that lab leaked the virus. Also, during the early days of the pandemic, Italy donate do thousands of masks to when their doctors were in need of PPE. Now they force Italy to buy PPE from them. They sell thousands of invalid testing kits to countries around the world that had to be returned. They claimed to have the virus in controlled and portrayed themselves as leader in corona virus reliance but reports shown their mortuaries are burning bodies around the clock. Clearly you cannot see that and not realize that Chinese Communist Party is benefiting from the problem that they created.

 

[Tekate]

Great, now this reads as personal opinion and hearsay SO if you can point to reliable websites to back up your statements then there might be some education going on but until then I would say this is right wing propaganda, but as I SAID, backing information is the way to go.

So I went out to verify the veracity of your statements and this is what I find.

Scientists: 'Exactly zero' evidence COVID-19 came from a lab

Scientists: 'Exactly zero' evidence COVID-19 came from a lab

www.cidrap.umn.edu

Li Wenliang: Coronavirus kills Chinese whistleblower doctor

Coronavirus kills Chinese whistleblower doctor

Li Wenliang warned fellow medics in December - but police told him to stop "making false comments".

www.bbc.com

China’s ‘Mask Diplomacy’ Is Faltering. But the U.S. Isn’t Doing Any Better

China’s ‘Mask Diplomacy’ Is Faltering. But the U.S. Isn’t Doing Any Better

Ham-fisted efforts to spin the pandemic have met resistance

time.com

<i>The Spectator</i> claims “China forced Italy to buy back the PPE supply that it gave to China” - with no evidence

Blog di Paolo Attivissimo su Internet, social network, informatica e bufale

attivissimo.blogspot.com

China launches investigation into company behind faulty coronavirus test kits sold to Spain

https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-launches-investigation-into-bioeasy-maker-of-

etc.

So read these and then post your facts and let's discuss.

No. The communist party of China (not Chinese civilian) should be held accountable for not containing the viral spread through massive cover up. They killed the Whistleblower Chinese doctor that told the world about the virus. (Yea, I’m pretty sure he was killed but not by he virus) Then they shift gear and blame the USA saying that the virus is “imported” from US products in Wuhan market. Btw, there is a research center within a mile of Wuhan market that researched about Coronavirus in bats. The communist govt refuses to investigate if that lab leaked the virus. Also, during the early days of the pandemic, Italy donate do thousands of masks to when their doctors were in need of PPE. Now they force Italy to buy PPE from them. They sell thousands of invalid testing kits to countries around the world that had to be returned. They claimed to have the virus in controlled and portrayed themselves as leader in corona virus reliance but reports shown their mortuaries are burning bodies around the clock. Clearly you cannot see that and not realize that Chinese Communist Party is benefiting from the problem that they created.

 

[voce]

China is not gonna help Trump get reelected they want Biden with Biden being POTUS China will run the US.

That is your opinion. What I'm hearing from Chinese relatives who support the CCCP, is 180 degrees. There are a couple Mandarin-language broadcasts analyzing that having Trump in power would be more advantageous to China because 1) he's transactional, not bound to ideological principles like democracy and human rights, and it's only a matter of time before China finds the right deal to sway Trump, and 2) Trump does a fine job on his own in going too extreme in trying to contain China, so much so that it pushes Europe away from alliance with the US and toward China. Not that Europe will support China's authoritarianism, but it's just not going to participate in US-led initiatives to punish China, so long as it's Trump in power.

Pasting sections from a Voice of America Chinese article analyzing US-China relations, and an Atlantic article discussing the US-Europe divide.


In case you don't read Chinese, the individual in the comments section claims the Chinese strongly support Ivanka for Prez in 2024, that Biden has no popularity in China. You think China fears Trump? China doesn't fear either Trump or Biden, but they've got Trump all figured out and welcome having him in power to preclude what they truly fear, unity between America and Europe on action towards China.






By the way, I know you won't believe Bolton, because to you, anything that's unfavorable to Trump must be a falsehood. But, let me remind others of how "anti-China" Trump has been based on human rights. Washington has been trying to get Europe to jointly denounce China over the Uighur camps in Xinjiang, while Trump tells Xi privately that what Xi did "was exactly the right thing to do"?

You have Trump to thank for China's current position of power. You'll have yourself to thank for helping China out with Trump in power for another four years.

So we need a new name for the HK flu and the London flu?

Honestly, I have no idea what the HK flu and London flu are. They're all just flu to me. If those are the official names, that's fine by me, because there's no longer stigma and discrimination resulting from it, if there ever were. The official name for the current pandemic virus is COVID-19; that's the name used by scientists and not coined by racist individuals who had political agendas.

 

[Karl_K]

you are all racially homogenous

That is a huge assumption and a very wrong one.
Any given day the people I talk to in person are 80% Black, 10% Hispanic and 10% white.
Some are friends, some are neighbors, and some are strangers and some are relatives.
My adopted grand daughters were born in China.
Now does that bust your bubble?

 

[Buttercookies]

Great, now this reads as personal opinion and hearsay SO if you can point to reliable websites to back up your statements then there might be some education going on but until then I would say this is right wing propaganda, but as I SAID, backing information is the way to go.

The only propaganda that Im interested is Chinese Communist Govt Propaganda. Anyone who listen to them is either naive about communism or a part of it.

 

[voce]

That is a huge assumption and a very wrong one.
Any given day the people I talk to in person are 80% Black, 10% Hispanic and 10% white.
Some are friends, some are neighbors, and some are strangers and some are relatives.
My adopted grand daughters were born in China.
Now does that bust your bubble?

No, not really. I was offering an alternative explanation to the theory of ignorance AGBF put out, not claiming to be a clairvoyant.

If you and @Buttercookies persist in calling it the Chinese virus, my personal conclusion is that you don't care about the hate and discrimination faced by Asian Americans who have nothing to do with the Chinese government hiding coronavirus facts. I think not one of you who supports calling it the China virus has given any explanation of how you reconcile supporting a racially charged terminology and supporting Black Lives Matter. Do you only see one form of racism, and turn a blind eye to other forms of racism? Do you not have sympathy for Asian Americans who would suffer (and have already suffered racism) because of the virus? My personal opinion, is that you only face the facts you choose to face, and choose not to face other inconvenient truths.

I mean, I can reason logically all I want, and it'll never get through a shield of self-delusion. It's just best not to waste my time.

 

[Tekate]

Are they all Right wing? I have a black nephew-in-law, a black grandniece, my nephew-in-law is all about a better life for his daughter and my nieces 2 sons from her first relationship.. I don't talk to my neighbors about Covid-19, but they are very nice young millenials who keep their distance from me to HELP in case one of their little ones has covid.

Your reply is anecdotal as is mine.

So now you must do the right thing and inform the 80% black people you know about Covid-19, the Hispanics too, and the 10% whites if they are saying Kung Flu etc they are speaking in a racist manner, it's up to ALL OF US Karl to eradicate racism in America.

 

[Karl_K]

MakingtheGrade has already encountered harassment on her way to work at the ER, and there is some harassment I and some other PS members faced at the grocery store.

I do feel bad that some morons are harassing people.
But will hiding the origin of the virus really help that?

 

[Karl_K]

eradicate racism in America.

Everything the left dont like is called racism these days.

 

[Tekate]

Oh so you have no answer, you want to believe in fake facts to further your dislike.. I get that.. we all want to be right.

Not that you know me or anything but I am about as supportive of the Chinese governent as I am of having the bubonic plague.. BUT I believe in facts and honesty and I do not want to see American's of Chinese descent hurt, or for that matter the Chinese people, I am not part of this crap government here in America and voted against all these republican 'people' so I weigh that and assume many Chinese citizens don't support their government.

Also you didn't answer any of my questions, sigh, always happens.

 

[Tekate]

Who's hiding it? it's all over the web where it originated, you'd have had to live under a rock to not know the virus first occurred in Wuhan, no one is hiding it, google is they friend, BUT we don't have to create hate and disharmony because of a few people.

Why when the WHO and scientists want us to refer to the virus by its name do you feel it's okay to say Kung Flu? I'ts racist.

 

[Tekate]

Prove that.. Prove that EVERYTHING the left doesn't like is called racism? Because as left leaning democrat I don't like ONE bit what Trumpski has done to our schools, rolling back safety rules for workers, all the regulations he rolled back listed below from Bookings..

Tracking regulatory changes in the second Trump administration | Brookings

How much regulation is happening under the Trump administration? This tracker helps you monitor a selection of delayed, repealed, and new rules, notable guidance and policy implementations, and important court battles covering energy, health, labor, and more.

www.brookings.edu

I dont think ANY of what I just wrote is about racism.. so facts please.

 

[voce]

The only propaganda that Im interested is Chinese Communist Govt Propaganda. Anyone who listen to them is either naive about communism or a part of it.

Yes, you may not be naive about communism, but I don't know if you would recognize right wing propaganda if you saw it. Back in WWII, right-wing propaganda was equally damaging to the cause of human rights.

I myself am not naive enough to believe that only one side puts out propaganda, or that I am not subjected to propaganda. I have a healthy skepticism of all politically-driven news or discussion.

I think a lot of terrible mistakes are made when people go from one extreme to another, e.g. people who suffered under fascism falling for communism and, of course more recently, people who suffered under communism coming to the US and supporting right-wing regimes.

As I've learned from my partner from Canada, it's only in the US that liberals are considered left wing. In Canada, the liberal party is moderates. The previously thought to be linear political spectrum is actually more accurately a political horseshoe, with massive similarities between nationalistic, conservative regimes and communist regimes. In fact, the CCCP in China today is just as much nationalist and conservative as it is communist. It doesn't take much to bridge the gap.



Anyway, my main point is that, just as in software, optimization (to get to any stable goal) is best done by taking small steady steps, not huge swings, and making use of the data or work that has come before. I am therefore equally against Bernie Sanders as I have been against Trump. Either Sanders or Trump would destroy many years of work in getting to where we are today.

Trump's regime is closer to Putin's regime or Xi's regime than any prior American presidency. If Biden is in power, we'll be taking a step back from the path toward a more authoritarian White House that Trump is paving.

For those that don't understand what I'm saying in this post...God bless you. You have too many beliefs and experiences that get in the way of what I would like to communicate.

You posted a perfect example:
Kung Flu

Poor taste yes, racist not even close.

Yup, you are blind to racism against Asian Americans.

 

[Musia]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=284276839439834

 

[lovedogs]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=284276839439834

Be prepared for what? His lying press secretary to repeat nonsense?

 

[JPie]

I do feel bad that some morons are harassing people.
But will hiding the origin of the virus really help that?

Do you honestly believe that there is anyone in the world who doesn’t know where the pandemic started?

Your intention is to not “[hide] the origin of the virus” but the result is that you are helping to stoke racism and violence against your fellow Americans.

Think of it this way: if you’re walking from the bedroom to the kitchen, and accidentally bump into your wife hard enough to make her cry out in pain, would you apologize for hurting her and ask if she’s okay, or tell you were just trying to go to the kitchen, shrug, and keep walking?

It doesn’t matter if your intentions weren’t malicious when the results are harmful. If people repeatedly try to explain this to you and you refuse to listen, that’s being callous and ignorant.

Everything the left dont like is called racism these days.

This is a great way to dismiss any valid criticism and avoid responsibility for the consequences of your actions.

You posted a perfect example:
Kung Flu

Poor taste yes, racist not even close.

The implication with the term is that it’s a Chinese disease, and Chinese people spread it. It’s racist.

 

[Musia]

Be prepared for what? His lying press secretary to repeat nonsense?

There were not my words, I even didn't copied them. So I don't know the answer to your question.

 

[voce]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=284276839439834

The same thing, filtered through different lenses, leads to different conclusions. So what if the media had called it the Wuhan virus or Chinese virus in the very beginning? Most of that was before the virus got a formal name. The media has now realized that the virus is leading to discrimination against Asian Americans and corrected the words it uses, instead of perpetuating terminology that stigmatizes.

It doesn’t matter if your intentions weren’t malicious when the results are harmful. If people repeatedly try to explain this to you and you refuse to listen, that’s being callous and ignorant.

This.

 

[lovedogs]

There were not my words, I even didn't copied them. So I don't know the answer to your question.

I thought you wrote the "be prepared" part. Apologies! But that video is a perfect example of someone calling out Trump on his blatant racism and idiocy and his press secretary ignoring/lying/deflecting.

 

[Musia]

I thought you wrote the "be prepared" part. Apologies! But that video is a perfect example of someone calling out Trump on his blatant racism and idiocy and his press secretary ignoring/lying/deflecting.

She had many pages of evidences, I think she was ready to show them to the asking reporters if they wanted to look or check themselves.