Child who won't eat...

[Pandora II]

Just wondering if anyone has any advice, suggestions or has been in this situation...

Daisy is now 17 months and pretty much refuses to eat. When she started solid food she was pretty good and would try everything and eat a decent amount. We did Baby-Led-Weaning where they go straight to adult food rather than purees etc and it went really well. However she then stopped being interested and although she tries things most get spat straight out again.

My husband has a hereditary blood disorder and whilst we were testing her for that, her haemoglobin levels came back as lower than they should be. When they were repeated 6 weeks later they were even worse - she has a haemoglobin level of 10 and a ferritin level of 8, her vitamin B12 levels were also low (no signs of pernicious anaemia though - folate levels are normal as are blood cell sizes).

The haemotologist referred us to a specialist dietician at the hospital and put her on a paediatric iron supplement. She suggested Vitamin B12 injections but our GP would prefer not to do them as they're very unpleasant and he feels we should see if it can be corrected with diet. She's on the small side but not malnourished (according to the specialists) and well ahead on all her milestones. She is also super-active and never sits still - the hospital said they had never seen a child with anaemia who was as energetic as she is.

To give an idea of what she eats:
Breakfast: 5 teaspoons of yoghurt - won't eat any more than that.
Snack: grapes - eats a few, stores them in her mouth and then spits them out an hour or so later - or a packet of baby apple crisps - won't eat more than a couple.
Lunch: pasta - might eat 4 pieces of fusilli, won't eat any vegetables other than peas or sweetcorn or meat with it. If I cut them up or make them into a paste she won't eat the pasta at all, she will eat pesto though.
Snack: cheese - she likes cheese and will eat a decent size piece.
Dinner: scrambled eggs on toast - eats a quarter of a slice of toast and 5 teaspoons of scrambled egg.

Things she loves (but isn't allowed more than once a week) - french fries, crisps, chocolate. Other food she likes but still doesn't eat much of - curry, rice, asparagus, potatoes, peas, sweetcorn.

Things she hates: bananas, most biscuits, rice-cakes, meat of all varieties, avocados, most fruit and vegetables.

She's not into puddings or sweet things other than chocolate.

She drinks water, won't drink formula and won't drink milk (both DH and I wouldn't drink milk as children either).

She is still breastfed and currently around 70-80% of her calories are coming from this. I have stopped her snacking on breast-milk every 20 minutes and don't feed her for at least an hour before meal-times, but she's being fed every 3 hours or so. The tantrums are spectacular over this! The dietician and the haemotologist have told me to definitely not give up breastfeeding as they want her to at least get calories from somewhere and because my husband has severe allergies as well as being immuno-compromised. I have a great immune system and so far Daisy has only had a couple of mild colds that she's shaken off in a couple of days. Plus they think that she's so stubborn and determined that it won't make her eat.

She also doesn't sleep - hasn't napped during the day since she was around 3 months old. If I get her to bed around 9pm she'll often be up again at midnight and won't go back to sleep till 4am or so, if she goes to bed with us at midnight/1am then she sleeps through till 9am or so - but does eat at night from me but without waking. We have always co-slept but are currently weaning her into her own bed which has been tough but she now goes to bed there in the evening and comes in with us when she wakes up after we've gone to bed. The hope is to gradually stretch the time she sleeps before coming in with us.

She is unbelievably stubborn and determined - much like her parents...

The dietician thinks it's behavioural rather than a problem with swallowing or anything of that sort and we are being referred to a child behaviour specialist to see if they have any ideas. They have all said to be very careful about making food an issue and not to force her or start trying to bribe etc.

She's now on vitamin supplements - powders that have to be mixed up and they taste horrible, one far worse than the other. I had to get 15ml into her of the nasty one this evening and DH had to hold her down so I could get the syringe in her mouth. I hadn't even got halfway and she threw the whole lot up plus everything she had had for supper...

I hate having to hold her down and shove medicine into her 3 times a day but unless she starts eating there is no choice.

Sorry - very long post!

 

[TravelingGal]

Pandora, oh my. I feel for you, I really do. If there was one thing my child did not do well (well, there are many, but this was the real doozy), it was eating.

I'll spare you all the gory details, but suffice it to say it's still a challenge today. I took Amelia to behavioral therapy too (at a year old), where it was determined she had low tone and I had to teach her how to properly chew and eat...she did not like the feeling of food in her mouth, it seemed. She gagged a LOT. And she just didn't care for the act of eating.

It's a real temptation to let them eat whatever they want (especially crap that's high in calories) just so they can eat and sustain themselves. I mean, letting the kid eat a cookie is an easy 200 calories vs an entire healthy meal that could just barely make 200 cal.

But I would encourage you to try to keep giving her all the healthy stuff as much as possible. FINALLY, now that she's 2.5, it's paying off. She's requesting foods like carrots and lean meats...at the halloween party today she wanted to eat cucumbers over all the junk that was there (this is what the teacher reported back to me). I can't tell you how many times over the last year and a half I just thought I was being too strict about this...that I should at least give her more stuff like french fries just so she would eat. The behavioral therapist was the one who told me to really stick to healthy foods because if I gave my little picky eater only the yummy stuff, she would have terrible eating habits for the rest of her life (sounded a bit dramatic to me at the time, but I was too scared to try otherwise.) So I kept trying...introducing and RE-INTRODUCING foods. Kids are fickle. One day they'll hate something and then all of the sudden it's the best thing ever.

I also did everything I could in terms of distraction to try go get food INTO her mouth. That included letting her eat while she watched TV. BAD idea. While I could get the food IN, she'd just often let it sit in her mouth and not eat.

Like most active kids, sitting down and eating is not fun or interesting and you'll find they won't eat because there's other things they'd rather do. What's worked well for us is sitting at the table with books. It's interactive, she loves reading and it keeps her entertained. But she's not a zombie and forgetting to chew. I would tell her if she kept wanting me to read, to eat. We talk about the books and have fun. And it's always not a bad idea to read to your kid.

Will she take breast milk in a sippy or with a straw? Because if so, you can gradually work milk into the breast milk and see if that changes her mind. Amelia HATED milk when I first introduced it. I had to sneak it in over a period of a couple of weeks.

Have you tried nori? This is dried roasted seaweed. Almost every kid I know LOVES this stuff. It's crispy and salty...the same reason why kids love crisps. If your kid takes to this, you can start using a bit of asian sticky rice and whatever meat/veg or thing you want to hide in this and wrap all of it inside the nori. You can skip the rice altogether if you want. The thing is that it is salty, so you can find low salt ones too. But I can wrap chicken in there when Amelia doesn't want chicken and she'll eat a ton of it. Then every 5th one or so, I'll let her eat a small piece of nori by itself. Even though it's salty, it also has good nutritional value in other areas.

It's good advice to try not to make the time too stressful and to not force or bribe. The advice I got is that my child WILL eat if she's hungry. And she did. In your case however, the amount she eats seems very worrisome, especially since she doesn't get calories from things like milk. I don't have much more advice to you except to say I've been there. It's hard to just shrug it off and throw the dinner away when your kid is thin! For a long time it was such a battle...every bite she took was a triumph for me. It's much much better now, but eating a meal can still take up to an hour!!

I'm sorry you are dealing with this!

 

[TravelingGal]

Oh, and Pandora, it does seem to me that if she's getting fed every 3 hours of BM, she's just not hungry. I know your dietician said not to forego the breastmilk since she A) has tantrums over it and B) gets most of her calories from it, but it seems to me that that cycle at some point needs to be broken in order to incentivize her to eat. If I was drinking milk every 3 hours, I wouldn't eat much either.

My mom noted that in society these days, we're constantly chasing after kids to eat throughout the day (especially grandparents!). She said Amelia didn't know what it was like to feel HUNGRY. And I have to say, I find this true. So a couple of times if she didn't eat dinner, I sent her to bed without it...including the milk she usually gets before bed. She was RAVENOUS in the morning and ate a huge breakfast each time.

Now, I just don't give her snacks as much. For us, this really helps during mealtimes as she's so much better at eating her meal. She still gets snacks, but it's more carefully timed or much smaller in quantity. Before, I was just happy she ate (I didn't care when she ate). Now it's a matter of teaching her to eat proper meals sitting at the proper place. I never dreamed I'd have a kid who just didn't like to eat!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I think TGal said it all. I want to emphasize that even the best eaters are fickle as TGal says. Hunter will love something one day and hate it the next. We have made a real rule around food to never make it a battle or an issue so that it will not become a bone of contention in the home. I think that is more challenging when your kiddo does not eat. In our house, if Hunter is being picky and silly about food, dinner time is over! I am not a short order cook. I figure he will eat if he is hungry. But he isa little fatty and so we do not need to worry about him eating little/nothing for a meal or even for a day.

Our friends had a child that is a LOT like Daisy in many many ways, right down to the eating. Eating was a battle in their home and it still is until this day (she is 5). I don't think they dealt with the situation well and much prefer TGal's suggestions of distraction and making meals fun times. Kids learn my association, so is dinner and eating is a fun thing they can share with you, and mom and dad are not stressed when doing it, then perhaps it makes it less likely that issues will ensue.

I also think TGals suggestion about sticking to your guns about only offering health foods is a really good one. The habits kids develop when young really stick and I know a few adults who eat NO veggies or fruits, or have other wierd food restictions that developed when they were toddlers.

I think seeing a behavioural psychologist is a great idea to see whether there are things you can do to change how you relate as a family around food that will make it more likely she will eat. Kids that age are so prone to power struggles and they can sense when there is an area of weakness in their parents armour. Food is such an area of weakness because if a kid is like Daisy then you can't be as strict or stick to your guns as much as a parent because you really need the kiddo to eat. But perhaps that is something that a consult will help? I am recalling that show "house of tiny tearaways" where food issues were HUGE and there was often a lot of success in those families with behavioural methods.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Oh, and Pandora, it does seem to me that if she's getting fed every 3 hours of BM, she's just not hungry. I know your dietician said not to forego the breastmilk since she A) has tantrums over it and B) gets most of her calories from it, but it seems to me that that cycle at some point needs to be broken in order to incentivize her to eat. If I was drinking milk every 3 hours, I wouldn't eat much either.

This is my instinct too, though of course I am not a medical doctor. And tantrums are, in my opinion, never a reason to give your child something The opposite in my view -- tantrums should never ever be rewarded.

 

[swingirl]

Pandora, I am no expert and have any experience with anything...other than my own son. He was always a light eater and didn't take naps. I was never worried about food issues or it being a behavior thing because with boys, you just don't worry about that so much. But he didn't eat very much. He was breastfed until 2 yrs although towards the end it was just at night. He went to daycare at around 4 months and refused to take a bottle so he just didn't eat all day. Eventually he learned to sip my pumped breast milk from a cup but he would never take a bottle, not from me or anyone else.

Always a light eater and when he did eat he would pick the healthful and most low calorie foods. He didn't care to eat lunch at school and to encourage him I would hand-deliver burgers, fries and shakes when he was 10 (he ate about half of everything I'd bring although some days I'd find the burger in his backpack with one bite taken out). I really didn't care who thought it was "healthy", it was high calorie for a boy who needed the calories to grow. He's always had a great sense of humor about his physique. My daughter dressed him like a girl in middle school and he looked like a killer super model, one of those really skinny ones. He'd also show off his beating heart for company. But for sure if he was a girl he would have gotten serious flack for having an eating disorder.

Today my son is 20, 6' 1" and weights about 145 lbs. He still doesn't eat much during the day, rarely breakfast, rarely lunch, he does eat a decent dinner. He never went through that "teenage boy eating machine" you hear about. But we never made food an issue, no bribing, no arguing, no "you must eat 3 bites", no restrictions for only low-calorie "healthy" food. I cooked a variety and let my kids eat what they wanted and how ever much they wanted.

When he was 13 he was diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease, an under active thyroid. As soon as we got him on medication he started to gain in height and maturity but not weight. There is no way to know how long he had the thyroid problem or if it had anything to do with his small appetite and ability to exist on very few calories. But typically people with an under active thyroid gain weight.

I hope if there is a medical issue with your daughter it can be diagnosed and treated but some kids just don't get a lot.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I think you are getting some good advise from your doctors and really think, based on the information provided, that they are moving in the right direction. This does sound like a behavioral feeding issue. While I think you should stand firm on the junk food, I agree with the doctors on continuing BF until you have a behavioral therapist working with you and the team managing Daisy give you the green light. While there are many kids who are "light eaters" but are really eating enough, there are some kids who simply refuse to eat and become severely failure to thrive. In my last year of practice, I have had several parents tell me their kids didn't eat enough, but only 2 who were refusing food to the point they were severely malnourished. But were very challenging, and very underweight. BTW, both had another underlying issue.

 

[Blenheim]

Pandora, do you mind if I piggy-back off of your thread a little bit?

Is it a bad idea to wean if there are weight-gain issues, or only if so much of a child's calories are coming from milk?
G lost half a pound between his 15 month visit and his 18 month visit. The doctor's not too concerned - yet - because he is otherwise healthy and our mutual feeling is that this is probably the result of a very active toddler plus fickle eating, but we're supposed to be trying to fatten him up a bit on healthy foods and she wants to follow-up with us in another 3 months. I have just started the process of weaning, as I am just starting to feel "done" with nursing, but after reading some of the comments I wonder if I should be right now? He's only been nursing once a day and so it isn't a major source of nutrition for him, but his bedtime nursing is a crutch of his if he decides to exercise his love of the word "No!" during dinner. I've now gone 3 days without nursing, but I am achy and know that there would be plenty for him if I reversed the decision right now.

Sidenote - the day after his 18 month checkup, his grandparents took him for the evening and then told us that they weren't sure why he was losing weight, as he ate the Happy Meal that they got him just fine....


ETA- Our pediatrician also said that we may want to try something like Pediasure or Carnation Instant Breakfast. I'm concerned that something like that may fill him up so that he isn't as motivated to eat real food, but it may be something to think about. You said that she does like chocolate, and they have chocolate versions of those.

 

[Gempassion]

Hi Pandora,

I don't have any children but I do have some cheese advice and vitamin B advice (if that makes sense). If she likes cheese, there is a type of cheese called "dry curd cottage cheese" that is it's very healthy and can be mixed into many foods (it barely has an fat and lots of protein. You can mix it into your daughter's eggs, pasta, almost anything). If she needs a good source of vitamin B, you can also sprinkle nutritional yeast flakes (it's fortified with B vitamins) on her food (even mix it with the dry curd cottage cheese).

Dry Curd Cottage Cheese:

http://www.scdiet.org/8resources/drycurd_sources.html

Nutritional Yeast:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast


You also might want to read, "Deceptively Delicious: Simple Secrets to Get Your Kids Eating Good Food, " by Jessica Seinfeld. I saw her on Oprah a couple of years ago and her ideas looked very interesting.

Good luck! (It's probably just a phase that will fizzle out as long as you don't make too much of a big deal about it and make food fun...especially as your daughter gets a bit older).

 

[kelpie]

Tgal is spot on. My friend's son refuses to eat out of spite for mom but eats fine at the sitter so it is a power thing. All he'll eat for her is sweets so that's what she gives him just to get calories in him and everyday meals are a huge ordeal. She is little at this point but as she ages if she gets that eating food is a big issue she'll use it to manipulate. In my circle, it would be completely appropriate to get most of her calories from breast milk for another year or two if your schedule allows but it is obviously very inconvenient and sometimes painful so I understand why many moms don't find it to be a viable option. My suggestion would be don't force feed her since I recall trauma from being force-fed bananas and now I can't even stand to smell them and my ex was like that with carrots.

 

[MonkeyPie]

ETA- Our pediatrician also said that we may want to try something like Pediasure or Carnation Instant Breakfast. I'm concerned that something like that may fill him up so that he isn't as motivated to eat real food, but it may be something to think about. You said that she does like chocolate, and they have chocolate versions of those.

This, and everything TGal said. It sounds to me like she's just getting too full from the BM and the snacking throughout the day. Cut the snacks, maybe cut a BM meal or two, and I bet she starts getting more interested in what's on her plate!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Blenheim Is he drinking whole milk? We gave it to Hunter in between meals and he would still have room for food -- about 4 OZ at a time 4 times a day (am, mid morning, mid afternoon, and before bed). He drank about that much until recently. I would think if he is drinking whole milk then it is fine to wean, since it is still milk, KWIM? But obv. I am not a medical doctor. I don't like the carnation stuff because it is full of sugar! And if you look at the cals etc it is not much different than whole milk seems to me. I would rather add a little chocolate syrup to whole milk if taste is an issue, because then I can regulate the amount of sugar. My friend had the same issue with their daughter (weight loss) and she would not touch milk BUT they would blend a banana with whole milk in the blender until smooth and she would guzzle it up from a straw sippy! Fattened her up really fast.

 

[Jennifer W]

Pandora, sorry you're having this stress. I don't have anything much to add to the excellent advice you already got from your Drs and the support you have here, but I will say that Amelia is also anaemic and taking an iron supplement (sytron suspension). S

he's tolerating it well, happy to take it and it does make a difference. Without it, she was getting really tired and looked frighteningly pale. She has a lot more energy now. That in turn made her appetite return and as she began to feel better, she ate better too. She's never been bad at eating, but sometimes she was just too tired to feel hungry or sit through a meal, I think. Maybe it will help Daisy in the same way? It took a few weeks to really see the effect. I think I also had to adjust my expectations as to just how much food she actually needs to eat. I was giving her larger portions that she needed and she self- limited food intake according to appetite. Maybe Daisy just won't ever be a big eater and we probably all know adults like that who are in excellent health.

Jen

 

[pancake]

This situation needs tough love. Pandora, you need to cut back the milk, and you need to be firm about it.

This is a common scenario that I see in paediatric practice - children who are iron deficient (although usually not B12 deficient, but I'll make a comment on that in a sec) because they drink too much milk. Usually we see a vicious cycle something like this:

1. Child won't eat
2. Child wants milk
3. Child gets milk because parents so worried about child not eating
4. Child no longer hungry
5. Child won't eat.
6. Repeat

Children who eat a varied diet appropriate for age do not become iron deficient unless they have an underlying medical condition (which I am glad to hear your daughter does not!). Too much milk is the most common cause of iron deficiency anaemia that we see in toddlers in Australia - and I would imagine this is generalisable to a lot of the developed world.

The iron deficiency issue is compounded when the child is drinking cow's milk (not yours, obviously Pandora!) as cow's milk causes decreased iron absorption, as well as its main effect of replacing what the child should be consuming (food).

Sometimes we see kids who are SO anaemic from this that they have to come into hospital, sometimes needing blood transfusions. We cut back their milk intake dramatically - this usually distresses parents a lot as the child is distressed - in order to make sure the child is hungry and will eat; all children will eat when they're hungry if they don't have a choice of milk vs food. Generally it doesn't take very long to improve things, so keep your head up - it will be short-term pain for long-term gain.

On the B12 issue: if a paediatric haematologist has recommended B12 injections I would actually do it. B12 deficiency can cause severe and irreversible developmental problems if it's not addressed. Obviously if you can manage the dietary issues then the B12 level will rise, but I would caution you against not taking advice about this if it's coming from a specialist - it is one of the great pitfalls of paediatrics that we are all warned about when training (it is "the one developmental emergency").

Pandora - I should of course add the disclaimer that this is all very general advice, and I know nothing of the specifics of your daughter's situation apart from what you've posted. I hope that it helps a little to hear it from the other side!

 

[Blenheim]

DD - He does drink whole milk, at least most of the time. He's at the fickle stage where there's nothing that he'll like 100% of the time, other than certain junk foods. In fact, we both had "cappaccinos" this morning for breakfast - his was just foamed whole milk, lest anyone worry, but he was happy that he had the "same" thing that mama had. He loves banana, so I may try that drink idea at some point too. My gut is that he doesn't eat he's trying to hold out for goldfish, cheerios, or cookies (will gorge himself on those if someone - aka grandparents - lets him) and that we just need to be hard-asses about not giving in. If he gets hungry enough, he'll eat. But then again, that attitude is what got him to lose the half a pound...

Some of the Carnation stuff also has caffeine in it. Um, ick. My mom's background is in nutrition and she said that she would only use those (the uncaffeinated, unsugary ones) as a last resort because of the problem of filling them up without eating real food. I don't think G is at the "last resort" point, but it sounds like Daisy may be closer to it?

I'm going to look for nori. He also loves chips, so that sounds like it may be up his alley.

 

[Dreamer_D]

DD - He does drink whole milk, at least most of the time. He's at the fickle stage where there's nothing that he'll like 100% of the time, other than certain junk foods. In fact, we both had "cappaccinos" this morning for breakfast - his was just foamed whole milk, lest anyone worry, but he was happy that he had the "same" thing that mama had. He loves banana, so I may try that drink idea at some point too. My gut is that he doesn't eat he's trying to hold out for goldfish, cheerios, or cookies (will gorge himself on those if someone - aka grandparents - lets him) and that we just need to be hard-asses about not giving in. If he gets hungry enough, he'll eat. But then again, that attitude is what got him to lose the half a pound...

Some of the Carnation stuff also has caffeine in it. Um, ick. My mom's background is in nutrition and she said that she would only use those (the uncaffeinated, unsugary ones) as a last resort because of the problem of filling them up without eating real food. I don't think G is at the "last resort" point, but it sounds like Daisy may be closer to it?

I'm going to look for nori. He also loves chips, so that sounds like it may be up his alley.

It also might have been error on the scale when he was weighed! We have not been to the doc with Hunter since 12mo so I have no idea if he gained or lost in that period. I guess maybe don't worry too much, but it never hurts to make an effort. Hunter is mental for nori, it is a great snack and high in iron too.

 

[KimberlyH]

I would begin by night weaning, no more snacking while sleeping. Then start a food routine/schedule: breaksfast, BM snack, lunch, BM snack, dinner, BM snack, no food until morning. She has little need to eat during the day as she does so all night. I know she's stubborn, so it will be a battle, but it's important to establish more typical eating habits, timewise. Her expectation is that she doesn't need to eat during mealtimes as she can compensate at night, so you're going to have to alter her expectations by changing her routine. As TG suggested, make eating fun. Make food faces, etc. and allow her to play a bit with her food. She's an active kiddo, the more interactive something is the more interested she'll be, it seems.

Hang in there, Pan. She's lucky you're so dedicated to doing what is best for her.

 

[TravelingGal]

DD - He does drink whole milk, at least most of the time. He's at the fickle stage where there's nothing that he'll like 100% of the time, other than certain junk foods. In fact, we both had "cappaccinos" this morning for breakfast - his was just foamed whole milk, lest anyone worry, but he was happy that he had the "same" thing that mama had. He loves banana, so I may try that drink idea at some point too. My gut is that he doesn't eat he's trying to hold out for goldfish, cheerios, or cookies (will gorge himself on those if someone - aka grandparents - lets him) and that we just need to be hard-asses about not giving in. If he gets hungry enough, he'll eat. But then again, that attitude is what got him to lose the half a pound...

Some of the Carnation stuff also has caffeine in it. Um, ick. My mom's background is in nutrition and she said that she would only use those (the uncaffeinated, unsugary ones) as a last resort because of the problem of filling them up without eating real food. I don't think G is at the "last resort" point, but it sounds like Daisy may be closer to it?

I'm going to look for nori. He also loves chips, so that sounds like it may be up his alley.

I looked at the ones I have and the English on the package says "Roasted Laver." You can also do Kale Chips...just get kale and drizzle with olive oil with a little kosher salt and bake until crisp (but don't overbake as they will be bitter).

 

[Mara]

Blen, what about banana milkshakes with things like yogurt and whole milk, banana? Can he have peanut butter yet? Nutella? Those are pretty yummi and a whole heck of a lot of cals can be packed in.

As for things like Carnation--I would totally not be into using those things ... is there a more natural version of it somewhere? What about something like Ensure as an alternative? Though I think those are not very tasty.

Pandora, I agree with the others who say cut back on the milk. I know when J is not hungry we tend to fill him up with formula just because I want him to get his 'food' in or like when he is sick and not as into solids. But when he IS hungry, he'll eat whatever food we put in front of him. I notice a distinct pattern of hungry vs not hungry and how temperamental he will be when eating.

 

[Pandora II]

Thank you all for the advice!

TGal - I remember you had/have big issues with Amelia over this and was hoping you'd have some ideas. I think you are right that sitting down and eating isn't 'fun' for kids. I often get the feeling that Daisy thinks it's a waste of time that could be spent doing something more interesting. I do find that if I put the TV on and she's interested in what is on that it's easier to get food in - she just opens her mouth without thinking and doesn't seem to notice that I have the spoon.

Normally she has to be in control of the cutlery and preferably adult knife and fork - trying to spoon feed her normally results in complete refusal.

I have tried nori in sushi - I thought it would be a big hit as she likes salty things, plus she likes rice and I could let her dip it in the soy sauce. Sadly she just peels it off and leaves it. I think she is very lazy when it comes to chewing unless it's something she really wants. I'll try some on it's own as I have a couple of packets in the house.

On the thinking it's a waste of time thing... when she's at playgroup they have a snack time with bowls of grapes, banana slices, breadsticks, rice-cakes etc and a cup of water each. All the children sit down for 15 minutes to have the snack and we do birthdays/leaving days/general announcements at the same time. That is, all but Daisy - she grabs 3 half-grapes, climbs down and goes off to play at the other end of the room on her own. We have a child development specialist in the group who takes a lot of time with Daisy and the last few sessions has taken her at snack time to see if me being out of the equation makes any difference - it hasn't - and she's doing the child behavioural psychologist referral. (The playgroup we go to is not a normal playgroup, but one for women with serious mental health issues and is run by a specialist mental health team with input from children's services).

Swingirl - it's a relief to hear that someone else has had a kid like this and got through it. Sorry to hear about the Hashimotos though. I've always been on the skinny side - they were sure I was anorexic at school, but it was just I got tall very quickly and suddenly. However I'm not a breakfast, lunch or snack person and have to remind myself to eat during the day - evening meal is when I really like to eat. I'm also a fan of strong flavours and salt - I've had to really change my eating habits since having Daisy which has been odd, like having 3 meals and no salt in what I cook.

Blen - piggyback away, I'm interested to see what problems others are encountering! The weaning issue is such a tricky one and I have had really conflicting advice on this - parents and IL's think I should stop, GP, health visitor, haemotologist, dietician and the staff at the baby group all say not to, but to try and make sure that she's taking a good feed not a mini-snack each time and not straight before a mealtime. I don't want to give up altogether but I would like to cut down - especially the nightfeeds, but since we co-sleep it is pretty much impossible until we manage to transition her completely to her own bed. As you know I won't do CIO, but I have done the pick-up, put-down routine (133 times the first night!) - she's been going to sleep in our bed for the last 9 months or so without a squeak, I just read her a story, say goodnight and then sit at the end of the bed with a book while she drops off - I rarely get to the end of a chapter... tonight in her own cot it took over an hour to get her to fall asleep and she screamed to the extent of giving herself a nose bleed.

Gempassion - thanks for the book suggestion I'll look into that, and also the cheese stuff!

Kelpie - I'm more than happy to keep bfing as long as possible, and it's not a problem to do so at the moment - I'd just like her to be getting about 30% of her calories from me rather than 70-80%.

I absolutely don't force feed her. I cook for all of us and we eat together, she's not forced to sit in a high chair or to eat anything - I'll offer things, eat them myself and make 'mmm, yummy' noises, offer her bits from my plate, allow her to play with food as much as she likes and if she doesn't eat the food then I just take it away when it's obvious that she's not going to have any. We don't have puddings so there isn't anything sweet for her to hold out for.

Monkey Pie - I'm not a fan of snacking so I'd happily cut them out, but I kind of get desperate that she has something and I worry that she might be hungry so I keep offering in the hopes that something might go in!

Jen - Daisy is on Sytron as well. It tastes pretty good so she's often happy to take it just of a spoon, otherwise I play games with the syringe and she'll take it that way. I'm wondering if her eating will improve once the anaemia is better - they've told me that it could take a couple of months to see a difference. Daisy is very pale but is frighteningly active, she literally never stops all day (gawd help us if the iron gives her even more energy!). That's really good advice on the portion size, I might try just giving her very small amounts - perhaps a full plate looks intimidating. Glad Amelia has done so well on it and her appetite came back!

Pancake - my husband has hereditary spherocytosis and has it pretty badly (has already had his spleen removed etc) so we were very relieved when her tests came back negative for that. I strongly believe that milk is for the baby animal of that particular species and am loathe to give it to her in the hopes of upping calories - I have contemplated chocolate milk for example - so I'm glad you mentioned the issues with regard to iron absorbtion. With the breast milk issue I will try and do more limiting of when it's available so I can see what happens when she is really hungry (perhaps escape and leave her with DH for a whole day and see what happens at dinner time).

Regarding the vitamin B12, the levels are just below the low end of normal - if they've dropped again at the next set of tests then we will be moving to the injections for definite. There is also the new trial of oral Vit B12 starting in January that Daisy will be taking part in if things haven't totally resolved. I'm very aware of the problems that pernicious anaemia and low Vit B12 can cause which is one of the reasons that I am taking the issue so seriously.

I had another go at getting the supplements into her today - they're pineapple flavoured... why pineapple??? It's not normally a favourite I would think! Why can't they make things chocolate flavoured? I diluted the syrup you make down a lot with carbonated water so it tastes like fizzy pineapple soda and put it in a sippy cup and she drank about half - which was better than a blank refusal or holding her down and most of it going over me, her, DH and the floor. I'll keep going with this tomorrow. I'm wondering if I should let her eat some salty things so she's thirstier and then just offer her the 'pineapplade' as a drink? I've also bought some pineapple jelly and will try and mix the syrup into that and see what happens.

Eugh, what is it with kids? They drive you nuts with worry from the minute you get the positive on the pregnancy test!

 

[diamondringlover]

I had this problem with my youngest son, I was so worried because he would not eat, he didnt gain weight, heck he wasnt on the growth charts till he was 3!!! we tried everything and nothing worked we ended up giving him carnation instant breakfast mixed with his milk, I was told by my sister, who is a RN and worked in a nursing home that it has almost the same nutrition as pediatric ensure, this worked for us, he finally started to grow and he is now a healthy 13 year old who is at the top of the growth charts. I feel your pain and I hope things get better with Daisy, hang in there.

 

[Pandora II]

Did he agree to eat the Carnation? If so, how much could you get into him?

I so wish that they would make a vitamin supplement that tasted nice or of nothing at all!

 

[Blenheim]

DD - doh, how could I have not have thought of the potential of the scales being off? Although, it looks like he would have had to gain 1.5 lbs to stay in the same percentile, as he was in at 15 mo and so even if you're talking, say, the scales being half a pound to a pound off, he's still not gaining quite as much as he should have. And I'd hope that infant scales wouldn't be that miscalibrated?

TGal - thanks, that helps! I was just going to wander the Asian aisle and hope that I stumbled across it. The kale chips sound interesting and definitely worth a shot.

Mara - He loves whole milk yogurt and banana, so I think I will give that a try tomorrow. I gave him some apple and peanut butter for a snack today, hoping that he would dip the apple in the peanut butter (likes to dip things), but he wasn't that interested in the peanut butter. I probably just need to keep offering offering offering.

Pandora - Night-weaning went amazingly smoothly for us, at least once we got him in his own bed in his own room. When we moved, one of our bedtime stories was about a little boy named George who moved into a new house and who went to sleep in his own crib, but he woke up in the middle of the night and was scared and cried and his mama came and cuddled with him and let him sleep in his mama and papa's bed for the rest of the night, and little boy George was happy because he knew that he was safe and loved. And then the next night, he went to sleep in his own crib again, but woke in the middle of the night and was scared and lonely and cried, and so mama came again and comforted him again. And then the next night, little boy George went to sleep in his own crib, and when he woke up in the middle of the night, he wasn't scared because he knew that Mama would come if he really needed her, and so he went back to sleep in his own crib where it was cozy and he had his own blankie and monster. (He has a stuffed monster he sleeps with.) And every night thereafter, little boy George felt happy and safe sleeping in his own crib all night long.
And I swear that it went down just like that. I told him the story for the first three nights we were in the house, as well as some other stories about courage and strength, and on the third night he slept through the night. He's woken us up like once or twice since. I think that he just really needed to be in his own space and then night-weaning just fell into place. Of course, getting them to the point where they are okay sleeping in the crib in the first place can be a challenge, to say the least.

 

[pancake]

Pancake - my husband has hereditary spherocytosis and has it pretty badly (has already had his spleen removed etc) so we were very relieved when her tests came back negative for that. I strongly believe that milk is for the baby animal of that particular species and am loathe to give it to her in the hopes of upping calories - I have contemplated chocolate milk for example - so I'm glad you mentioned the issues with regard to iron absorbtion. With the breast milk issue I will try and do more limiting of when it's available so I can see what happens when she is really hungry (perhaps escape and leave her with DH for a whole day and see what happens at dinner time).

Pandora - just wanted to clarify on this point. Cow's milk is a perfectly appropriate milk for kids over 12 months. Obviously, so is breast milk! An excess of EITHER of those milk sources will result in iron deficiency (a haemoglobin of 10 is not really anaemia, so she is just iron deficient), because the growing human body needs sources of iron from the solid diet after that age. Cow's milk excess is compounded by the iron absorption issue - but it is just the last little bit of insult, the main problem is the quantity. At this age, 500ml (up to about 750ml) per day of milk is the recommendation, for that very reason - that consumption in excess of this tends to make the rest of the diet suffer.

You should not be looking at increasing the caloric intake of the milk your daughter drinks (eg. the chocolate milk that you were thinking about) because that will only compound the problem by making her milk more filling. You need to just cut back the milk, whatever kind of milk it is. To begin with she may still not eat, but eventually she will have to, because she'll be hungry!

She will not starve herself, parents often feel horrible when going through the process but you just need to be more stubborn than her!

 

[reader]

They do make gummy vitamins, I wonder if the kids would tolerate them better because the consistency is more like a normal food?

 

[TravelingGal]

Just a note on nori...this isn't sushi nori I'm talking about, which tends to be more pliable. Roasted Laver is very crisp and brittle...if you scrunch it up in your hand, it will completely break apart.

 

[reader]

Dulce sometimes is tolerated well by kids too, though the flavor can be a bit strong for some. Maria used to eat whole bags of it if I didn't hide it.

 

[janinegirly]

Just a note on nori...this isn't sushi nori I'm talking about, which tends to be more pliable. Roasted Laver is very crisp and brittle...if you scrunch it up in your hand, it will completely break apart.

sorry to butt in, but where does one get nori?

 

[TravelingGal]

Just a note on nori...this isn't sushi nori I'm talking about, which tends to be more pliable. Roasted Laver is very crisp and brittle...if you scrunch it up in your hand, it will completely break apart.

sorry to butt in, but where does one get nori?

Asian market? Korean grocer or japanese especially. We buy the Korean kind obviously. You should have no problem finding this in NYC. They may have it at the regular market, but honestly, I've never looked. Plus it has to be fresh to be good, so I'd buy it where it actually sells.