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Child Support Question !

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violet02

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Awhile back I posted about my friend who had gotten a girl pregnant and the whole issue about her having an abortion or not. She didn''t and had the baby. Beautiful baby girl! Anyways she has since moved from California to Montana to live at home with her parents. They have agreed that he doesn''t have any part in raising the child. The Montana child support enforcement agency has contacted him to establish paternity. He doesnt know for sure he''s the father neither does she. Anyways she has stated that she''s not sure she wants to collect child support or not. Part of the issue is that she still really cares about him and isn''t sure about if she wants to charge him that money,do it on her own whatever.

Obviously if he''s the father he''s obligated and he knows it. What the concern is she kind of goes back and forth on all of this I think in order to be able to keep contact with him. She''s not ready to let go since at the time she was obviously in love with him and he didn''t feel the same way. I told her that I thought it best for her to move forward with her life (he has and is now living with a gf). So if she wants child support go get it! Either way its up to her.

My question concerns back child support laws. In some states child support is owed from the moment you establish paternity or its owed from birth. So say a man doesn''t know he''s had a child with someone until 10 years later. My hubby said he had a friend that suddenly owed 10 years of back child support, which crushed him. That seems kind of horrible considering the woman never told him he had a child. So in my friends case I guess it doesn''t matter either way if he establishes paternity now... I''m just curious if she says no i don''t want it now... then 5 years from now she says you owe me 5 years worth is he liable? Should they get this stuff in writing now or what?

I know Montana has different laws for that so if anyone has or can find any info that would be a great help. I''ve tried searching but no luck yet. Also I read that he could go ahead and get a lawyer and make his own monetary agreement with her separately. That a judge does have to approve but that''s possible. I''m just worried about this whole thing being dragged on forever and ever. I think it would be great if they could settle it and move on with their lives. Particularly in her case.
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 2/6/2009 8:01:57 PM
Author:violet02

My question concerns back child support laws. In some states child support is owed from the moment you establish paternity or its owed from birth. So say a man doesn''t know he''s had a child with someone until 10 years later. My hubby said he had a friend that suddenly owed 10 years of back child support, which crushed him. That seems kind of horrible considering the woman never told him he had a child. So in my friends case I guess it doesn''t matter either way if he establishes paternity now... I''m just curious if she says no i don''t want it now... then 5 years from now she says you owe me 5 years worth is he liable? Should they get this stuff in writing now or what?
make him pay child support now!!
 

purrfectpear

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Actually it isn''t up to her. The child is entitled to support from it''s natural father. It''s not her money that she''s considering giving up on, but the childs. If she doesn''t want it, fine then bank it for the child to have when it reaches majority.
 

DiamanteBlu

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Here are the Montana child support guidelines and here is the Montana Code Title 40. FAMILY LAW.

I don''t know whether MT or CA would have jurisdiction.

Here''s the California Family Code. Here is an FAQ on CA child support.

Hope this helps.
 

Octavia

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I think your friend should find out for sure that he's the child's biological father before he goes ahead with any of this. If he is, in fact, the father, then he can worry about the financial arrangements...just my $.02.

ETA: I'm in no way advocating that he shrink from his duty to support the child if it's his, but I think it's better that he be sure. And if he needs to be paying support, it's probably much better to get court approval over the arrangements now and not play with fire.
 

Tacori E-ring

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Date: 2/6/2009 8:22:34 PM
Author: Octavia
I think your friend should find out for sure that he''s the child''s biological father before he goes ahead with any of this. If he is, in fact, the father, then he can worry about the financial arrangements...just my $.02.
That DOES seem to be the most important issue. I think the baby girl DESERVES to know who her dad is. I also agree with Purrfect. She should bank it for her baby''s future.
 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 8:22:34 PM
Author: Octavia
I think your friend should find out for sure that he''s the child''s biological father before he goes ahead with any of this. If he is, in fact, the father, then he can worry about the financial arrangements...just my $.02.

No that''s why he''s doing the paternity test that the montana child support division requested.

Diamant- thanks for the links, but I am still not able to figure out the ''back child support'' rules. That''s if you haven''t established it already, not if you have been defaulting.
purr - I agree with that and I think her reasons for hedging on it even thought she says the child is first and foremost to her are mostly personal to her alone. I had suggested that he might want to consider making an agreement with her on his own where he pays a portion of the money into a college fund for her every month. Somthing to that effect.

DF - pay now so you dont owe later?
 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 8:26:55 PM
Author: Tacori E-ring

Date: 2/6/2009 8:22:34 PM
Author: Octavia
I think your friend should find out for sure that he''s the child''s biological father before he goes ahead with any of this. If he is, in fact, the father, then he can worry about the financial arrangements...just my $.02.
That DOES seem to be the most important issue. I think the baby girl DESERVES to know who her dad is. I also agree with Purrfect. She should bank it for her baby''s future.
She''s open to her daughter knowing him if she wants to later in life and he''s open to it too. But right now she''s thinking about things emotionally.
 

luckystar112

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He should have requested paternity from the get-go in order to protect himself.


I''m assuming that he does not want to be a father? I am not judging, I think that is PERFECTLY within his rights although the law does not agree. But if he does want to be a father and she just up and went to Montana, that is wrong. He could have taken her to court to have a judge rule on that.


I say, establish paternity and have him INSIST on going to court to determine child support...even if they come to their own agreement. Things change, attitudes change, resentment develops. This should not be based on a verbal agreement or anything written down on a piece of paper. He has rights too and he needs to exercise them NOW.


 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 8:47:43 PM
Author: luckystar112


He should have requested paternity from the get-go in order to protect himself.




I'm assuming that he does not want to be a father? I am not judging, I think that is PERFECTLY within his rights although the law does not agree. But if he does want to be a father and she just up and went to Montana, that is wrong. He could have taken her to court to have a judge rule on that.




I say, establish paternity and have him INSIST on going to court to determine child support...even if they come to their own agreement. Things change, attitudes change, resentment develops. This should not be based on a verbal agreement or anything written down on a piece of paper. He has rights too and he needs to exercise them NOW.




Well she's requesting paternity now and he's complying because she just had the baby December 16th so it hasn't been that long. She told him before she gave birth that she'd send him the paperwork afterwards. It's cheaper to have a paternity test once the child is born then when it's in the womb.

He doesn't want to be a father and she wanted him to let her live with him and take care of her but they weren't in a relationship and he wasn't interested in one. Up until the day she moved she was hoping he'd change his mind, part of the reason why I believe she had it. She had to move back to MT because she had no job or money. She's flying back here in a few weeks with her mom to see friends and says she's not going to see him but we'll see.

If there's a chance she can show up in 5 years demanding 5 years worth of money then I think it's better to start the ball rolling now. We've been discussing the fact that he should probably just get an attorney now. My friend is an attorney for these types of cases but he advised he gets one in MT.

I am still curious about the law though. Some states its from birth that you will owe and some not.

ETA: Let me add that when she lost her job just shortly after getting pregnant he did pay her health insurance for her to help her out. He just didn't want t,.o be trapped into having her move in to his house. That would have gone badly
 

Dancing Fire

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i have a friend who fathered a child. the mother then collected welfare to support this child for like 7 yrs til one day she found out he had another GF,she then got piss off,she turn his name into the county welfare dept. the father had to repay the county for supporting this child.
 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 9:00:28 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i have a friend who fathered a child. the mother then collected welfare to support this child for like 7 yrs til one day she found out he had another GF,she then got piss off,she turn his name into the county welfare dept. the father had to repay the county for supporting this child.
For the whole seven years right? He owed all of it?
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 2/6/2009 9:04:40 PM
Author: violet02

Date: 2/6/2009 9:00:28 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i have a friend who fathered a child. the mother then collected welfare to support this child for like 7 yrs til one day she found out he had another GF,she then got piss off,she turn his name into the county welfare dept. the father had to repay the county for supporting this child.
For the whole seven years right? He owed all of it?
yes, plus he must support the child til she turns 18.
 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 9:09:10 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 2/6/2009 9:04:40 PM
Author: violet02


Date: 2/6/2009 9:00:28 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i have a friend who fathered a child. the mother then collected welfare to support this child for like 7 yrs til one day she found out he had another GF,she then got piss off,she turn his name into the county welfare dept. the father had to repay the county for supporting this child.
For the whole seven years right? He owed all of it?
yes, plus he must support the child til she turns 18.
UNLESS the child is adopted. Then you don''t have to continue to pay. That''s my understanding.

So I think if I''m correct it generally goes like this:

- If parternity is established at Birth and the mom comes back 7 years later you''ll owe regardless of where you''re at, for the whole 7 years.
- If no paternity was established and the mom pops back in and says you owe take this paternity test now, then depending on what state you''re in you''ll either owe the whole 7 years or just from the date you established paternity.

Sounds right?
 

luckystar112

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I''ve heard stories of men paying child support for children that they believe are theirs, only for it to come out later that they aren''t the father. In some cases, a judge will rule that the non-father must continue to pay, despite not being the father. Unbelievable.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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I think he needs to speak with a family law attorney in the state the child was born in ASAP. Forget trying to get info/advice from people on an internet forum (no matter how knowledgeable some people are, they''re not attorneys). All of this speculation is just going to add to an already confusing situation. Kudos to you for helping a friend though!
 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 9:20:43 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
I think he needs to speak with a family law attorney in the state the child was born in ASAP. Forget trying to get info/advice from people on an internet forum (no matter how knowledgeable some people are, they''re not attorneys). All of this speculation is just going to add to an already confusing situation. Kudos to you for helping a friend though!
Yeah I think that''s best. I think he was holding out to see what happened. But he just go for it. I tried calling a couple awhile back but didn''t hear back from anyone. Any suggestions on how to find a ''good'' one?
 

cara

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I don''t see why this question is that relevent... Its only been 3 months since the baby was born and the woman is already moving to establish paternity, so its not like a huge bill will have grown up in that time.

If he is the father, he should pay support because its the right thing to do. Whether the mother is wants to ''charge'' him is not the right standard, in fact, it would be a selfish decision on the part of the mother not to request child support because of her own ongoing feelings for the child''s father as there is clearly a need. Your friend should insist, again if he is the father, because its his responsibility *to his daughter* and not to his ex-girlfriend. If the mother doesn''t want to use the money for her daughter''s current needs, fine, it will be there in an account for college or whatnot.

If I recall the earlier discussion correctly, both adults seemed pretty immature. Doesn''t look like much has changed.
 

onedrop

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My personal opinion? Your friend should take the paternity test regardless of whether the Mom is vacillating or not. The child needs to be supported.

Typically the child support laaws where the child is domiciled apply. In this case Montana would probably have jurisdiction.
 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 9:38:37 PM
Author: cara
I don''t see why this question is that relevent... Its only been 3 months since the baby was born and the woman is already moving to establish paternity, so its not like a huge bill will have grown up in that time.

If he is the father, he should pay support because its the right thing to do. Whether the mother is wants to ''charge'' him is not the right standard, in fact, it would be a selfish decision on the part of the mother not to request child support because of her own ongoing feelings for the child''s father as there is clearly a need. Your friend should insist, again if he is the father, because its his responsibility *to his daughter* and not to his ex-girlfriend. If the mother doesn''t want to use the money for her daughter''s current needs, fine, it will be there in an account for college or whatnot.

If I recall the earlier discussion correctly, both adults seemed pretty immature. Doesn''t look like much has changed.
Basically my friend wanted to kind of let her take the lead and let him know what she wants to do. He''s in no way concerned about how much he may or may not owe right now. That''s not a big deal. He''s more concerned about what her deal is with asking for the support. He has every intention of paying, don''t think he''s trying to get out of it.

I think what the problem is she''s going back and forth on whether or not she wants to file for it because of her own personal feelings. So he can wait for her to decide sure, but the concern is if she comes asking for it years from now and the bill is HUGE then that''s going to be a financial hardship. It would be easier for him to start making payments now. Also dragging it out like that is just another reason for her to be able to talk to him or stay in his life somehow.

I suggested that he may want to consult an attorney and draw up a contract stating what he''ll pay montly to her for childcare, insurance and part that goes to a college fund. A judge can then approve that.That way he doesnt have to wait around to be sued for child support whenever she''s ready to do so.
 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 9:58:15 PM
Author: onedrop

My personal opinion? Your friend should take the paternity test regardless of whether the Mom is vacillating or not. The child needs to be supported.

Typically the child support laaws where the child is domiciled apply. In this case Montana would probably have jurisdiction.
The issue isn''t should he take the paternity test. He''s already doing that.

The issue is this wishy washiness with the child support and how she feels about it. Montana does have jurisdiction since she had the child there.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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Date: 2/6/2009 9:37:40 PM
Author: violet02
Date: 2/6/2009 9:20:43 PM

Author: Hudson_Hawk

I think he needs to speak with a family law attorney in the state the child was born in ASAP. Forget trying to get info/advice from people on an internet forum (no matter how knowledgeable some people are, they''re not attorneys). All of this speculation is just going to add to an already confusing situation. Kudos to you for helping a friend though!
Yeah I think that''s best. I think he was holding out to see what happened. But he just go for it. I tried calling a couple awhile back but didn''t hear back from anyone. Any suggestions on how to find a ''good'' one?
Unless this "friend" is you, I doubt you''ll find someone who will talk to you. They need to talk to your friend. I know it''s frustrating when you''re trying to gather info for someone. I''ve been in your boat before. Check the State''s Attorney General''s website. They often have a referral list and most attorneys do consultations. But the consultation will need to be with your friend, not you.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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Date: 2/6/2009 9:58:18 PM
Author: violet02
Date: 2/6/2009 9:38:37 PM

Author: cara

I don''t see why this question is that relevent... Its only been 3 months since the baby was born and the woman is already moving to establish paternity, so its not like a huge bill will have grown up in that time.


If he is the father, he should pay support because its the right thing to do. Whether the mother is wants to ''charge'' him is not the right standard, in fact, it would be a selfish decision on the part of the mother not to request child support because of her own ongoing feelings for the child''s father as there is clearly a need. Your friend should insist, again if he is the father, because its his responsibility *to his daughter* and not to his ex-girlfriend. If the mother doesn''t want to use the money for her daughter''s current needs, fine, it will be there in an account for college or whatnot.


If I recall the earlier discussion correctly, both adults seemed pretty immature. Doesn''t look like much has changed.
Basically my friend wanted to kind of let her take the lead and let him know what she wants to do. He''s in no way concerned about how much he may or may not owe right now. That''s not a big deal. He''s more concerned about what her deal is with asking for the support. He has every intention of paying, don''t think he''s trying to get out of it.


I think what the problem is she''s going back and forth on whether or not she wants to file for it because of her own personal feelings. So he can wait for her to decide sure, but the concern is if she comes asking for it years from now and the bill is HUGE then that''s going to be a financial hardship. It would be easier for him to start making payments now. Also dragging it out like that is just another reason for her to be able to talk to him or stay in his life somehow.


I suggested that he may want to consult an attorney and draw up a contract stating what he''ll pay montly to her for childcare, insurance and part that goes to a college fund. A judge can then approve that.That way he doesnt have to wait around to be sued for child support whenever she''s ready to do so.


I think this last part about the contract is wise. The ball is in his court right now. As we all know, love today can easily be hate tomorrow. And watch out for bitter women when money is involved!! By getting his intentions on paper now, with a reasonable amount of money noted, he''s saving himself SO much trouble down the road. Not only will he not be held to the whims of her favor, he''s securing his child''s future for his child (NOT the mother!).
 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 10:14:23 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk

Date: 2/6/2009 9:37:40 PM
Author: violet02

Date: 2/6/2009 9:20:43 PM

Author: Hudson_Hawk

I think he needs to speak with a family law attorney in the state the child was born in ASAP. Forget trying to get info/advice from people on an internet forum (no matter how knowledgeable some people are, they''re not attorneys). All of this speculation is just going to add to an already confusing situation. Kudos to you for helping a friend though!
Yeah I think that''s best. I think he was holding out to see what happened. But he just go for it. I tried calling a couple awhile back but didn''t hear back from anyone. Any suggestions on how to find a ''good'' one?
Unless this ''friend'' is you, I doubt you''ll find someone who will talk to you. They need to talk to your friend. I know it''s frustrating when you''re trying to gather info for someone. I''ve been in your boat before. Check the State''s Attorney General''s website. They often have a referral list and most attorneys do consultations. But the consultation will need to be with your friend, not you.
No I understand and no it''s not me heh. I was trying to find someone who could handle the case then have my friend call them. I wasn''t planning on doing the consult for him. I''ll check that website thanks.
 

Octavia

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Ah, Violet, I didn''t realize he was actually taking a paternity test when I posted before. There are ways to "establish paternity" that aren''t biological -- in a lot of states, all a man has to do is declare that the child is his. So I just assumed the Montana agency sent him papers saying to either sign a declaration of paternity or raise a challenge to it. If that was the case, and he had signed such papers, he could have been on the hook regardless of biology (though I''m not that familiar with Montana law, so I''m not sure if that''s how it works there). Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 

violet02

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Date: 2/6/2009 10:22:15 PM
Author: Octavia
Ah, Violet, I didn''t realize he was actually taking a paternity test when I posted before. There are ways to ''establish paternity'' that aren''t biological -- in a lot of states, all a man has to do is declare that the child is his. So I just assumed the Montana agency sent him papers saying to either sign a declaration of paternity or raise a challenge to it. If that was the case, and he had signed such papers, he could have been on the hook regardless of biology (though I''m not that familiar with Montana law, so I''m not sure if that''s how it works there). Sorry for the misunderstanding.
That''s a really good point you bring up Octavia. He said he''d gotten paperwork about the paternity but didn''t tell me what he''s supposed to do with it. I sure hope it means he''s taking a test. I don''t even know how that works from out of state! I better ask him. Maybe I''m misunderstanding!
 

AmberGretchen

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I'm glad he's taking responsibility and trying to deal with it - I think he will be really glad that he did, and it really is in the best interests of the child, who is the victim in all of this.
 

onedrop

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Date: 2/6/2009 9:59:15 PM
Author: violet02


Date: 2/6/2009 9:58:15 PM
Author: onedrop

My personal opinion? Your friend should take the paternity test regardless of whether the Mom is vacillating or not. The child needs to be supported.

Typically the child support laaws where the child is domiciled apply. In this case Montana would probably have jurisdiction.
The issue isn't should he take the paternity test. He's already doing that.

The issue is this wishy washiness with the child support and how she feels about it. Montana does have jurisdiction since she had the child there.
See, that's what I get for not reading everything completely!
Now that you cleared it up for me, I think he should take the child support issue into his own hands. If he is the father then does she have a right not to accept support? If the Montana courts are already involved, I think she is going to have a hard time saying "no" to him supporting his own child. Does he want visitation/custody rights as well?

ETA: Is his name on the birth certificate? That's another way to establish paternity. Ditto what Hudson_Hawk said about getting an attorney, only I would tell him to seek one where the child lives since that is where the child suport and custody issues will be adjudicated.
 

~*Alexis*~

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If she is trying ti establish paternity now, thats a good thing. He can have his own CS negotiated with her through his attny. I would strongly suggest that he start saving now, if he is the father he is already 3 months behind.

Also, if she files for any state aid (food stamps, Temporary Cash Assistance or Medical Assistance) then the state would mandate her to file for Child support whether she wanted it or not. That''s the states way of getting their money back.

I think he should see his lawyer and find out what his next course of action is. I think that if she is thinking emotionally and not with her head, than she could come after him for all the wrong reasons (revenge) if he does not protect himself now, then he can get himself into bigger trouble in the long run.

As far as the direct answer to your question.... they will go after him for the date she was born, not from the date in which paternity was established.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 2/7/2009 10:03:30 AM
Author: ~*Alexis*~
If she is trying ti establish paternity now, thats a good thing. He can have his own CS negotiated with her through his attny. I would strongly suggest that he start saving now, if he is the father he is already 3 months behind.


Also, if she files for any state aid (food stamps, Temporary Cash Assistance or Medical Assistance) then the state would mandate her to file for Child support whether she wanted it or not. That's the states way of getting their money back.


I think he should see his lawyer and find out what his next course of action is. I think that if she is thinking emotionally and not with her head, than she could come after him for all the wrong reasons (revenge) if he does not protect himself now, then he can get himself into bigger trouble in the long run.


As far as the direct answer to your question.... they will go after him for the date she was born, not from the date in which paternity was established.
bingo, since the state is involved they will be the ones that go after him not her.
He needs to have the test done asap and not sign anything until then and he needs a lawyer.
 
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