"Ceylon Sapphire " Term

[treasurehunter]

Is Ceylon Sapphire a description of the colour or just the location Ceylon, as many sapphires are sent from madagascar to sri lanka and cut there and as madagascar was geologically and geographically connected at the time of sapphires forming , does that make the term Ceylon sapphire applicable to sapphires from madagascar that are of the same colour or type as the Ceylonese ones.

many retailers advertise ceylonese sapphires , how do they know if they are actually mined in Ceylon ?

 

[Marlow]

Orign or Type ..... you find many informations in the internet.

http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/cs-sapphire-origin.htm

I think - the same for chrysoberyl, some kinds of spinel and other gems - they mix rough from east africa or madagascar with rough from sri lanka. I believe they don't care about the orign in smaller or cheaper gems.

And Madagascar produces beautiful qualities - same level like Sri Lanka.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Yes, and you will find suspiciously many Sri Lankans on flights from Colombo to Burma.

And then there are the Brazilians that buy 'Paraiba' in Mozambique.

Gem labs can confirm origin at times and for much extra $ but there is no 'Ceylon blue'.

 

[chrono]

It started off as the location/origin of the sapphire but over time, because Sri Lanka started to produce a significant amount blue sapphires with that particular look, it became well known as "Ceylon sapphire", regardless of origin. So in a way, there are now 2 very different meanings when one says Ceylon sapphire.
1. It truly came from Sri Lanka (regardless of the quality)
2. It has that distinctive blue colouration, even though it isn't from Sri Lanka.

http://www.palagems.com/sapphire_connoisseurship.htm

I've seen and know that there are many stones that aren't from Sri Lanka but are sold as Sri Lankan because the sellers know people know that it will sell for more, just by virtue of origin, regardless of colouration.

 

[RandG]

For me, the starting point is a GIA/AGS/SSEF cert which among other attributes, specifies the origin/provenance as Sri Lanka (an SSEF cert may also indicate exact location i.e. "Ceylon"), and no indications of heat. From there, its about color, with sapphires coming from Ceylon having very distinctive tones and color saturation. And finally, it has to be a trusted supplier with well established market credibility.

 

[Marlow]

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html

A lot of beautiful sapphires - heated and unheated. Please compare the stones from Madagascar and Sri Lanka.
Which color is typical for which location?? Would you pay a different price for the same color and treatment?

Look at the 5,01 ct cushion (3/3 or Number 1186) - Burma, Sri Lanka or Madagascar???

 

[chrono]

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html

A lot of beautiful sapphires - heated and unheated. Please compare the stones from Madagascar and Sri Lanka.
Which color is typical for which location?? Would you pay a different price for the same color and treatment?

Look at the 5,01 ct cushion (3/3 or Number 1186) - Burma, Sri Lanka or Madagascar???

Marlow,
I agree with you wholeheartedly; buy the stone not the paper origin. There are both nice and yucky stones from the same place, so having the origin name does not guarantee a quality stone.

 

[Marlow]

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4180/gxh4q.jpg

This little and beautiful sapphire was cut by Uli Zeisberg from rough - untreated and unheated.

Orign: Nigeria!

 

[LoversKites]

It's interesting that sapphires commonly marketed as 'Ceylon' are not necessarily really from Ceylon. I don't think I've seen it being done with Burma in regards to rubies... or has it?

 

[chrono]

LK,
Unfortunately, it has been done with Burmese rubies as well.

 

[innerkitten]

Well a lot of sapphires are from Sri Lanka and therefore they can be called "Ceylon sapphires" since the area was once called or described as Ceylon ( and a tea too) . Also there is a sapphire color that is sometimes described as ceylon as well. Kind of a medium to lighter blue with a bit of violet.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[innerkitten]

Yes, and you will find suspiciously many Sri Lankans on flights from Colombo to Burma.

And then there are the Brazilians that buy 'Paraiba' in Mozambique.

Gem labs can confirm origin at times and for much extra $ but there is no 'Ceylon blue'.

Interesting.

 

[LoversKites]

LK,
Unfortunately, it has been done with Burmese rubies as well.

I'll keep my eyes open for this then.

 

[Marlow]

O.K. - you have a cutting factory in Sri Lanka - you send some staff to East Africa or Madagascar to buy rough - they spend a few weeks or month and return to Sri Lanka with many bags with hundreds or thousands of rough gems - Sapphire ( coloured or Geuda), Spinel ( violet, blue or pink shades), Chrysoberyl ( cat eyes, " alexandrite" and common Chrysoberyl), garnets (CCG for example) and other gems.

They will sort them - heat some of them and cut them. I think to many stones to seperate them - exept for larger rough, top quality unheated sapphire and other.

Or - gems and varieties you don't find in Sri Lanka like Mahenge spinel ( they get more money with this orign)

For example blue spinel ( not Cobalt): Tansania produces a lot of larger blue spinel ( no gray mask like many from Sri Lanka) - now I get a lot of this blue spinel quality ( 3-5 ct) from Sri Lankian vendors in Gem shows - Orign: Sri Lanka !! Of course!!!

I started collecting in 1978 as a boy - these qualities unseen in this size and color in the 80th und early 90th.

 

[treasurehunter]

legally or ethically should jewellers or retailers use the term ''Ceylon'' sapphire?

 

[lambskin]

I have been learning about sapphires from Kashmir, India that supposedly have that 'Ceylon' quality. Due to the instability of the area it seems that these are less available. I am planning a trip to India and will visit the area. I suspect that the rough is quickly taken to gem cutting centers near Jaipur and Delhi as Kashmir is no longer on the tourist radar.

 

[Marlow]

They should use the term " natural sapphire" + the treatment + orign ( Sri Lanka" or "unknown" ).

Natural Sapphire heated from Sri Lanka.

Ceylon sapphire is in my opinion a term used for a quality of sapphire ( Kashmir -> Burma -> Ceylon -> Thailand -> Australia) in the 20th century.

First: Many prefer a medium blue with a good clarity so this term would suggest it is only a lower quality which is wrong.
Second: All qualities are found in Sri Lanka or Madagascar or Burma. Other countries could produce nice qualities too.

It is much more important for the price whether the stone is treated or not and which treatment. A stone with a light cornflower blue from Madagascar untreated has a higher value then a heated stone from Burma with a deep slightly greenish blue.

The beauty is important!

And - this is my opinion and experience - a lot of jewellers have a low " knowledge" about gems - same with some people in trade ( the type salesman who sells gems instead of tomatos or cars) and science. "Knowledge" means a combination of gems and their variaties - which are rare and/or " on vogue". Some scientist are only interested in the material. Some salesmen sell gems course they are from Sri Lanka or Afghanistan for example.
I discovered a lot of rare and expensive gems for little money course I know what it is - like a vanadium chrysoberyl from a lot of common chrysoberyl for 12 EUR pct - a 0,77ct for 10 EUR!!! They don't know what it is! Sometimes a big chance....