ceylon blue spinel

[T L]

TL- An appraisal can be forged and is essentially unverifiable once the appraiser retires, moves, dies, etc. . . .

the same can b said for a lab report-iv know many people who lost show cars to peeps paying with forged checks & documents-there r many labs who verify-sum use only certain known labs-my bottom line is u try to cover ur bases as well as possible when representing a gem to anybody to let them know this is the real gem & value is accepted as the standard of the days value-me...

Lab reports can also be forged, but many are verifiable. If it isn't, it was probably forged. Some labs have online verification, with a number assigned to the report that you can verify easily. It is also important, IMHO, to get a lab report with a photo of the gem on it for added protection. I don't care much for lab reports without photos. Again, not all labs are created equal.

Steve, I know I'm not going to change your mnd, but I'm just stating facts so that others reading this thread can get useful information out of it.

 

[T L]

TL- An appraisal can be forged and is essentially unverifiable once the appraiser retires, moves, dies, etc. . . .

the same can b said for a lab report-iv know many people who lost show cars to peeps paying with forged checks & documents-there r many labs who verify-sum use only certain known labs-my bottom line is u try to cover ur bases as well as possible when representing a gem to anybody to let them know this is the real gem & value is accepted as the standard of the days value-me...

Most modern labs have online verification or easy verification (report id #), and I recommend a lab report with a photo. If the lab report is unverifiable, it is not worth much to me.

I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I'm just posting this for informational purposes for anyone reading this thread.

 

[m76steve]

from lovingdiamonds-"NO HE DIDN'T. He's given you poor advice AND had to look up reference books" ---the fact that my appraiser used quite a few items-books, charts, scope, gem testing devices etc. showed that he stood behind his appraisal-was sure of his findings and will justify any attacks or doubts as to his findings-he worked well & did right by me-i paid for a service & was well served-he is certified, licensed & serious @ what he does-me...

 

[Treenbean]

This is the most frustrating thread.
I feel like it's an episode of some reality TV show where there is one person who refuses to listen to what people mean when they are talking. This isn't fun at all. I question whether I suffer from PriceScope burnout.

 

[m76steve]

TB-ur doing fine-ur just being a little passionet about this subject-now please excuse me while i change a few bandages & mop up a little more blood-me...

 

[LD]

This is the most frustrating thread.
I feel like it's an episode of some reality TV show where there is one person who refuses to listen to what people mean when they are talking. This isn't fun at all. I question whether I suffer from PriceScope burnout.

You and me both!

Steve - We are only trying to help but you've perceived this as (a) we don't know anything (b) we're all wrong (c) you are the only person right (d) your appraisers are the best and can't ever be wrong (e) labs are useless and (f) have argued about every single piece of advice you've been given (the same from many different people). Why are you not listening? Argue as much as you want but don't expect people to say anything different.

Nobody wants you to be taken for a mug. You've just bought a gemstone for $900 that in my opinion is a very high price. I hate to see that happen to anybody. At the end of the day it's your money and perhaps we are all wrong to try to help you not throw it away. Perhaps you're a secret millionaire and money isn't an object! If that's the case then of course you're right about everything and we'll now have a competition to marry you!

I do hope that this thread gets consigned to another page soon as it's like groundhog day.

 

[m76steve]

This is the most frustrating thread.
I feel like it's an episode of some reality TV show where there is one person who refuses to listen to what people mean when they are talking. This isn't fun at all. I question whether I suffer from PriceScope burnout.

You and me both!

Steve - We are only trying to help but you've perceived this as (a) we don't know anything (b) we're all wrong (c) you are the only person right (d) your appraisers are the best and can't ever be wrong (e) labs are useless and (f) have argued about every single piece of advice you've been given (the same from many different people). Why are you not listening? Argue as much as you want but don't expect people to say anything different.

Nobody wants you to be taken for a mug. You've just bought a gemstone for $900 that in my opinion is a very high price. I hate to see that happen to anybody. At the end of the day it's your money and perhaps we are all wrong to try to help you not throw it away. Perhaps you're a secret millionaire and money isn't an object! If that's the case then of course you're right about everything and we'll now have a competition to marry you!

I do hope that this thread gets consigned to another page soon as it's like groundhog day.

short rebuttle-a, b, c, d, & e are wrong-misconstrued[taken wrong] f, only strong different opinion & not all labs are good! we agree to not on all points-im taking a digel as we speak & a gas x pill to relieve a little pressure-AAAHHHHH that better-il open the window & just chill a while-no more posts-we agree nuff is nuff-me...

 

[Pandora II]

precision-referring to the 5.9 blue spinel which proved to b not spinel which the 1st appr id'd properly as not spinel but possibly sapphire because of refraction testing-he had the stone only 5 minutes & ruled out spinel-he then said maby sapphire but could not find any positive attachments to sapphire-that was all i took from him-i made an appointment with another appr. 2 days later & after almost 1.5 hrs of testing-observing & referencing books/charts he id'd the stone as well cooked synthetic sapphire & showed me why he came to his conclusion, as evidensed within the stones edges & interior-he did well-steve...

Steve, this worries me. I don't complete my FGA for another couple of months but still I reckon it would take me a max of half an hour to tell a synthetic sapphire and probably nearer 10-15 minutes. You only need a good gem kit and experienced eye - not expensive lab equipment. The fact he needed books and charts and 1.5 hours suggests to me that he has been out of the loop for a long time not that he is thorough and knows his stuff.

Re. Oilpearl - I rarely buy eBay stones, but I have had a couple of his 'loss-leaders' and they have been exactly what I bought them as. You do need to assume that the colours in the photos are a tad better than in reality and look hard for inclusions as they're not always stated in the blurb. I was buying a couple of stones on the rarer side and was extremely happy with what I got for the price. I wouldn't buy anything in the way of loose stones on eBay for more than £100GBP tops and I expect the quality I pay for!

ETA:

Labs - the only ones I would pay good money to are AGL and (before it closed) Gem-A in London.

 

[Harriet]

im taking a digel as we speak & a gas x pill to relieve a little pressure-AAAHHHHH that better-il open the window & just chill a while

Hysterical, Steve.

 

[Harriet]

Steve,
Come back and tell more jokes, please. I didn't disagree with your approach. All I said is that getting reports and/or appraisals depends on personal factors.

 

[chrono]

Steve,
Unless you send your stone to a reputable lab, yes, it can be forged. It is true that there are forged memos but a good lab makes it difficult to forge by providing not only a picture of the gem but also a report ID that can be verified online or when calling the lab. When buying, I do not care what the value is. Everyone is entitled to sell any gem for as little or as low as they want, be it $1 for a CZ or $1000 for a CZ. What matters most (and should to everyone) is that the stone is exactly what it is purported to be which the labs have much better equipment to make that determination than any appraiser could even hope to have. I agree with Pandora about the concern that your appraiser could make any determination within only 5 minutes of having the stone in hand. I agree that a lab report is not needed for every single stone purchased, especially for something purchased very inexpensively, but if that stone is believed to be worth much more, then it should be verified with a lab report that it is what you believe it to be.

 

[Pandora II]

Steve,
Unless you send your stone to a reputable lab, yes, it can be forged. It is true that there are forged memos but a good lab makes it difficult to forge by providing not only a picture of the gem but also a report ID that can be verified online or when calling the lab. When buying, I do not care what the value is. Everyone is entitled to sell any gem for as little or as low as they want, be it $1 for a CZ or $1000 for a CZ. What matters most (and should to everyone) is that the stone is exactly what it is purported to be which the labs have much better equipment to make that determination than any appraiser could even hope to have. I agree with Pandora about the concern that your appraiser could make any determination within only 5 minutes of having the stone in hand. I agree that a lab report is not needed for every single stone purchased, especially for something purchased very inexpensively, but if that stone is believed to be worth much more, then it should be verified with a lab report that it is what you believe it to be.

You would only need the time it takes to set up a refractometer to tell that the stone isn't spinel - or even sticking it under a polariscope would tell you that it isn't SR in seconds. The RI should also tell you that it's corundum. 5 minutes is about what I would expect it to take. The 1.5 hours is what would worry me.

If you are having a full written appraisal done then that's one thing, but a simple ID should be very quick.

 

[T L]

You would only need the time it takes to set up a refractometer to tell that the stone isn't spinel - or even sticking it under a polariscope would tell you that it isn't SR in seconds. The RI should also tell you that it's corundum. 5 minutes is about what I would expect it to take. The 1.5 hours is what would worry me.

If you are having a full written appraisal done then that's one thing, but a simple ID should be very quick.

But would you also know it's not synthetic?

 

[VapidLapid]

You would only need the time it takes to set up a refractometer to tell that the stone isn't spinel - or even sticking it under a polariscope would tell you that it isn't SR in seconds. The RI should also tell you that it's corundum. 5 minutes is about what I would expect it to take. The 1.5 hours is what would worry me.

If you are having a full written appraisal done then that's one thing, but a simple ID should be very quick.

But would you also know it's not synthetic?

indeed, for just as a certificate may be forged, a stone may be synthesized. There after it is much easier to verify the veracity of a lab report than to discover the source of the errors in an appraisal.

 

[Pandora II]

You would only need the time it takes to set up a refractometer to tell that the stone isn't spinel - or even sticking it under a polariscope would tell you that it isn't SR in seconds. The RI should also tell you that it's corundum. 5 minutes is about what I would expect it to take. The 1.5 hours is what would worry me.

If you are having a full written appraisal done then that's one thing, but a simple ID should be very quick.

But would you also know it's not synthetic?

It would take a bit longer to tell synthetic corundum from natural: I'd want a spectroscope, a x10 loupe and possibly a dark-field loupe and/or microscope.

The spectrum of a synthetic blue sapphire will usually lack one of the absorbtion lines at 450nm that you will see with a natural stone. A combination of this with curved growth lines or tadpole-shaped bubbles under magnification (x10 loupe normally enough) would be enough for a positive ID. Other things like random distribution of bubbles, strong outlines of bubble, bubbles following the growth lines etc are also good indicators.

Some flame fusion (verneuil) synthetics will show the line at 450nm, but spotting the curved growth-lines should be pretty easy - again a positive ID.

A synthetic blue sapphire that doesn't have any tell-tale signs is not that common. Yellow sapphires are much harder to ID as the synthetics don't show the curved growth lines

A lack of typical corundum inclusions should raise suspicions. If you are seeing plenty of sapphires on a regular basis it shouldn't be a difficult task.

A lab will be doing the exact same tests. The problems start when you are looking for evidence of heat-treatment or lattice diffusion - then you need a lot of experience with inclusions and in the case of diffusion...very expensive machines.

 

[T L]

You see, if I send it to a highly respected lab, I know they'll do these tests that you suggest. If I send it to an appraiser, I'm not so sure.