ceylon blue spinel
- Thread starter m76steve
- Start date
john gem-im really taking flack over my post on most of my stones-if u want to c what oil pearl is selling in spinel go to ebay-gemstones-blue spinel-& search for a blue stone with oil pearl as the seller-then go to his store-u will c how many spinels he has on line-quite a selection of pretty good stones-thanks for the comments @ my pendents-for me within the last year if had so many offers to buy my pendents that im amazed at the interest in the colored stones from peeps [people] in the street just at passing-when the wife goes to work she might wear anything but always get comments @ the stones she is wearing-she works at dept of state & some of these people are world travelers & have seen very nice items but they are always amazed at what she wears to work-alex to tourmaline-as to selling a $2500.00 sapphire for $300.00 it happens-im going to tell u & whoever @ one of my alexandrites-this pendent has 2 faceted stones-upper stone is 2.04cts of russian alex-bottom stone is 2.34cts of russian alex-the 3 catseye stones are indian origin at just over 4.0cts total-this pendent has been appraised at over $40,000.00 at the latest appraisal-the woman who appraised it told me that the last appraiser was a little high at $30,000.00-she came back with the 40k+ appraisal &this was after she researched for several days with other people in the business-my cost at auction on this item is less than $4,000.00 total-quite a return-iv had many many dealers to see these stones & get very good compliments @ stone quality in this pendent-some have not seen this good color change in many stones as the top stone shows-from green to red-like throwing a switch with light change-a lot of the stones i bought several years ago when there was more on the market than seems to b now-higher prices now too-this is for all to c-im having the blue spinel appraised this week & will post results-good or bad-no problem just business-will keep in touch-thanks 4 ur comments-steve...
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m76steve|1295695735|2829561 said:
Steve - you've been collecting since 2004 is that correct? If so, please share with me where you bought your Russian Alex and how you know it's Russian? I'm desperate for you to understand how your lack of knowledge and the people you are using is making you think you have things you haven't. Using the term "Russian" to sell Alex is, unfortunately, incredibly common and 99.9% untrue. So unless you have absolute proof of provenance AND a report from a reputable laboratory that has analysed the chemical composition then you should assume your stones are not Russian. Finding Russian Alexandrite is like finding Rocking Horse Poo - and I promise you, there is hardly any genuine Russian Alex (if any) on Ebay or anywhere else for that matter. Even 5 years ago, if you were to find Russian Alex you would have been paying a premium (for a good quality stone), and no doubt would have bought it from a specialist, a lapidarist or a collector AND it would have come with a lab report.
Cat's eye Alex (even if they were to be classified as Alex rather than Chrysoberyl) the value of them is not high at all. Please understand, I have been collecting Alexandrite for over 20 years, have an incredibly large collection as they are my babies. I am far from being an expert and am not saying I am but I do recognise when somebody is being lied to and your appraiser is doing that. I really want you to understand that I'm trying to help - nothing else. If you don't believe me I will happily put you in touch with an Alex expert (somebody who has probably seen more Alex in his lifetime than anybody else) who will confirm to you what I've just said.
What concerns me is that you filter these posts and respond only to what you want to hear. I'm going to say to you again that you MUST go to labs and NOT appraisers. The appraisal you've had for your Alex is beyond a joke. Your appraiser should be absolutely ashamed of herself for this. It's totally disgusting and she should be reported to some form of governing body.
I'm so upset that you're being misled so badly. Really I am and this upsets me like I can't tell you. This comes from the heart and with absolutely NO malice intended.
john gem-more info @ the faceted alex-the 2.04 was bought with a 1ct stone from cutters in bangkok-the original rough was bought from russian mines when they were open in early 2006-only the two stones were cut from the same rough possibly from the ural mountains area-i was at the right place & time-i was offered the stones & bought the 2.04-was told at the time it was one of the few stones that showed 95% color change or better-the 2.34ct is russian listed with 80% color change & bought from the cutters who had the rough-i was looking for alex at the time & these were available at a really good price for very good material-steve...
LD-sometimes there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow-the testing that has been done to this item by many technicians, appraisers & peeps who know gems-even people who specialize in perticular stones can usually id an origin by the stones interior & how it tests against standards & known info-im sitting here enjoying my rockinghorse poo & other stones-i had a great time sharing with all of u & have even semi-enjoyed the comebacks-iv made some very good buys-met some very nice peeps & will let the scars heal-sometimes people loose the enjoyment of buying or owning said stones-they live in a small box & any new info about good deals or new items r disected to the point of ROCKING HORSE POO-nuff said-i have met some really sweet persons-IM OUT OF HERE! 
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m76steve|1295713130|2829641 said:
Because the ebay seller was oilpearl, and I know the carat weight of your stone, and I could see the completed listing for the cushion spinel of your carat weight. The inclusions in the photo also appear to match up to your inclusions. I'm 99% that's your stone unless he sold an identical stone of the same carat weight and color, which is highly unlikely. The title header was,
"4.70ct-Museum Grade "Huge" Ultra Hot Cobalt Blue Spinel"
The face up photo is in the vendor photo, and there is a small window, but the stone is so dark, that I can't imagine it would show up, it's just far too extinct a stone.
I'm a pretty avid ebayer, so it wasn't hard to find, but if that's not your stone, please forgive me and correct me.
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Steve:
I don't know how TL does it, but for what its worth, with the information you've provided, its pretty easy to go back through their recently sold items and figure out a transaction. I mean, how many blue spinels of that shape and carat weight did they sell within the last few months?
As to recent comments by folks such as LD and TL, you clearly have a following here. You love the stones you buy, and you love to share them. Good on you. But sometimes what you represent the stones to be is not what we see or what our PS experts know from their own experience. They are telling you because you are one of their peeps and they care - a lot. If you are happy with your stones, that's what matters, but until you sell them, you won't really know what their value is, will you?
I think you know my recent story of buying from a reputable vendor and loving the pad sapphire I bought. It was a condition of sale that it "pass" at the GIA - that is, no additional treatment. I didn't want to send it off, didn't want to wait, didn't want to pay, and REALLY didn't want to know the results if they weren't what I wanted to hear. And they weren't. When I posted that story, Michael E jumped on and said buyers should know that you can't get high quality pads for less than $3,000/ct. That was a good benchmark for me and I think about it often. The fact is that since then, I haven't seen any pads anywhere that I would love enough to buy. So while I thought it was a fluke and that I was "lucky" to have found a good bargain, even the vendor was taken for a ride by her broker in Bangkok.
You have a bunch of PS members that have your back. Take them up on the protection. After all, would you rather be right, or would you rather have even better deals in your collection from having learned pitfalls to avoid?
Take care,
-Minou
I don't know how TL does it, but for what its worth, with the information you've provided, its pretty easy to go back through their recently sold items and figure out a transaction. I mean, how many blue spinels of that shape and carat weight did they sell within the last few months?
As to recent comments by folks such as LD and TL, you clearly have a following here. You love the stones you buy, and you love to share them. Good on you. But sometimes what you represent the stones to be is not what we see or what our PS experts know from their own experience. They are telling you because you are one of their peeps and they care - a lot. If you are happy with your stones, that's what matters, but until you sell them, you won't really know what their value is, will you?
I think you know my recent story of buying from a reputable vendor and loving the pad sapphire I bought. It was a condition of sale that it "pass" at the GIA - that is, no additional treatment. I didn't want to send it off, didn't want to wait, didn't want to pay, and REALLY didn't want to know the results if they weren't what I wanted to hear. And they weren't. When I posted that story, Michael E jumped on and said buyers should know that you can't get high quality pads for less than $3,000/ct. That was a good benchmark for me and I think about it often. The fact is that since then, I haven't seen any pads anywhere that I would love enough to buy. So while I thought it was a fluke and that I was "lucky" to have found a good bargain, even the vendor was taken for a ride by her broker in Bangkok.
You have a bunch of PS members that have your back. Take them up on the protection. After all, would you rather be right, or would you rather have even better deals in your collection from having learned pitfalls to avoid?
Take care,
-Minou
Lovinggems
Ideal_Rock
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Does Oilpearl provide lab report services like Tan's store? I think AIGS is the best one to go with in Thailand because you can contact them via email and confirm your report. No need to send it to 100 appraisers.
I just searched for your spinel and it came up in completed listings. Advanced, completed listing, cobalt blue spinel.
I just searched for your spinel and it came up in completed listings. Advanced, completed listing, cobalt blue spinel.
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minousbijoux|1295714982|2829663 said:
Minou,
Sure, a stone is only worth what someone will pay for it, but as a consumer, and from experience with buying these gems, I know I can get a much nicer stone for the price supposedly paid on this one. We can also make recommendations of where to buy and who to buy from. There is a vendor list at the top of this forum.
The only thing this stone really has going for it is it's size, but I recently won a 3.5 carat spinel of the same color as Steve's (in the photos), and it had natural inclusions specific to spinel. I won it to try out a vendor, and the stone cost somewhere in the range of $30 if I remember correctly. Ebay has some fabulous deals if you know how to look, but in more cases than not, it's a trap for inexperienced buyers. I just don't want the people in this forum or elsewhere to fall into that trap. I know I have in the past, but it's important to learn from your mistakes, and not keep repeating them.
ETA: I wish I had a dime for every vendor that lists "cobalt blue spinel" on ebay. I could buy the Hope Diamond. 99% of "cobalt blue" stones on ebay are really "charcoal blue."
VapidLapid
Ideal_Rock
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Steve, like TL, I saw the listing too. When you click on see sellers other listings from any of their listings you get all active listings. Then on the left you can chose "completed listings". From there it was pretty easy to find the 4.7 carat ceylon blue spinel. A comparison of the windows confirmed them to be the same.
A lot of people have made suggestions to you about getting proper lab reports out of a warm and genuine concern. I think it is great if you have had positive buying experiences and feel yourself to have bought wisely and with such an increase in value. I have seen many people make gobs of money on paper then lose it all also on paper never having seen any of their wealth for real. Buy low sell high, or buy high sell higher. But you have to sell to actualize the increase. Assuming your appraisers are honest AND know their rockingchair poo, it would be prudent, really to your advantage, to get lab reports for some of your holdings from the major reputable labs. If the day were to come when you (or your heirs) needed, or wanted to sell, it is unlikely that the open market will recognize appraisals in the absence of reputable verifiable lab reports. So that having the lab reports is not so much to give you yourself more confidence in what you've bought, but it ensures you of a good response as a seller in the marketplace.
From personal experience I know appraisers are much more invested in telling one what they think one wants to hear, while a reputable lab will tell one what they find to be the case, regardless of what one would like to hear.
A lot of people have made suggestions to you about getting proper lab reports out of a warm and genuine concern. I think it is great if you have had positive buying experiences and feel yourself to have bought wisely and with such an increase in value. I have seen many people make gobs of money on paper then lose it all also on paper never having seen any of their wealth for real. Buy low sell high, or buy high sell higher. But you have to sell to actualize the increase. Assuming your appraisers are honest AND know their rockingchair poo, it would be prudent, really to your advantage, to get lab reports for some of your holdings from the major reputable labs. If the day were to come when you (or your heirs) needed, or wanted to sell, it is unlikely that the open market will recognize appraisals in the absence of reputable verifiable lab reports. So that having the lab reports is not so much to give you yourself more confidence in what you've bought, but it ensures you of a good response as a seller in the marketplace.
From personal experience I know appraisers are much more invested in telling one what they think one wants to hear, while a reputable lab will tell one what they find to be the case, regardless of what one would like to hear.
Steve, it seems to me you want to believe only what you want to hear regardless of whether it's true or not. I think some good information has been given here. You must understand, Steve, that in the gem business and market many people tell you what you want to hear to sell a stone or if you are giving them money for some service.
Okay lets see you said:
"the faceted alex-the 2.04 was bought with a 1ct stone from cutters in bangkok-the original rough was bought from russian mines when they were open in early 2006-only the two stones were cut from the same rough possibly from the ural mountains area"
but in the previous post you said:
"my cost at auction on this item is less than $4,000.00 total"
I thought you bought the styone from "cutters in bangkok"? If I also remember you said in a previous thread that you got all of these, including the "russian", from ebay?
We all know that no russian alexandrite has been mined in a long time and definitely not in 2006. Alex has only been mined in the last 10 years from three locations and there are only 3 types of alexandrite currently in the market. From most to least expensive they are, in geographic order:
Brazilian (Hematatita
African: (Tanzania)
India: the new strike from Andrha Pradesh
(sri lanks, myanmar, zimbabawe
Lets say you got the the russian alexandrite direct from cutters in bangkok(you said auction and ebay in other post and threads) now explain to me why anyone and I mean anyone would sell all those alexandrites or even the 2 "russian" alexandtrites for less than "$4000" when they are worth $40,000?? Common sense tells you something is not right. Time and time again over the years you read or hear about someone thinking they have a clean "pigeon blood" mogok ruby they got for $500 thats magically worth $200,000, a vivid blue untreated kashmir sapphire they got for $200 worth $50,000 so on and so forth. Where do many of these stories come from...ebay!
Think about that. Why would anyone in their right mind sell $40,000 worth of stones for less than $4000? If you got them from ebay or from "cutters" in bangkok chances are they have been dealing and/or selling gemstones for a very long time and wouldn't just one day decide to sell some of their stones for $36,000 less than what they are worth. Makes sense, right? This is what the TV gem shows, like JTV, tell you. "This tanzanite is appraised and worth $4,000 but we are happy to offer it to you at a fraction of the cost and at only $500" If it's worth that much why would you sell it for $500?
Here is a qote from Richard Wise a titan in the gemstone industry: "Stoplight red to emerald green. When will we be finally rid of this myth. Alexandrite does not occur in those colors" [and I explain why in detail in my book]
You say yours is a 95% color change or actually your appraiser or who did tell you that by chance? A 100% color change is red hue to green hue with no modifiers or secondary colors. 100% color change doesn't exist in alexandrite or any other gemstone for that matter. A 95% color change Alexandrite is like an eyeclean mogok pigeon blood(looking into the face of god) ruby of 5cts. 1 in 10 millon.
So lets look at the information again:
95% color change
Russian alexandrite
One of the rarest if not the rarest type of stone to find in the entire world.
It was cut with a huge window(the lower one)
It was cut in 2006 and not 100 years ago which means someone 5 years ago cut one of the rarest stones in the entire world with an extremely large window.
Here is a quote from Alexandrite.net
"The older gemological literature is full of references in praise of the beautiful Russian Alexandrites but few of these stones have been seen in the West since the Russian Revolution in 1917. We know that the colors of the original Uralian material represented the Russian Imperial military colors of red and green. However with so few Russian stones available anywhere, we cannot really compare them with alexandrites from more recent discoveries."
"During this period, the Takovaya district on the eastern flank of the central Urals was mined extensively and many large emeralds and alexandrites were unearthed. Little specific production information is available but the deposit was thought to be nearly depleted at the turn of the century. No significant amount of new Uralian material has been reported since the Russian revolution in 1917."
"Information about the overall color and clarity of these Russian stones is scarce and today, there are few Russian alexandrites available anywhere. Irrespective of quality, Russian alexandrites are highly valued from a historical perspective alone and will command the highest prices especially if they are of high quality and their origin can be certified."
"Today, there is almost no production of Russian material and almost all of the original Russian stones are in museums or private collections. Even in Russia, most of the alexandrite sold today, are probably from other deposits outside of Russia."
"The AGL (American Gem Lab) endorses the percentage of color change system. Alexandrite with a 100% color change shows complete color change on every axis - all facets change color. If half of the facets change color, the gem is classified as a 50% change and so on. Most highly priced alexandrite has a color change percentage of around 85-95%. Stones with a 90% shift should be considered fine. For example, a stone that is teal green in daylight should become purplish red under the light bulb, with little green left when the lighting is changed."
Steve, your appraiser is feeding you a bunch of BS. I don't think she is doing it on purpose. I think she is uninformed and incompetant. This happens all the time. Appraisers get their G.G. and never see the inside of a lab or a classroom again. If he/she is older then it could be 10, 20, or 30 years since they have been in a lab or had continuing education. She is taking what you tell her and looking up online what the supposed worth should be and then turning around and copying what she read to you. She has no idea it's a russian alexandrite because neither you or her got a lab report. How do you know it's russian then? By what some ebay seller or cutter in bangkok told you? How does she or whoever know what the color change percentage is? I guarantee she got her information from someplace like this[copyed]
Average retail prices for alexandrite 2007 - 2008 Faceted (Alexandrite) 0.5 to 1 carat 1 carat plus
Top Red/Green $5,000 to $15,000/ct to $100,000/ct
Medium Red/Green $3,000 to $9,000/ct to 60,000/ct
Slight Red/Green $100 to $2,500/ct to $6,000/ct
Other colors $1,100 to $8,000/ct to $10,000/ct
Cabochon ( Alexandrite) 0.5 to 1 carat 1 carat plus
Strong red/green $500 to $2,500/ct to $30,000/ct
Cabochon (Cat´s Eye) 0.5 to 1 carat 1 carat plus
Strong red/green $1,500 to $5,000 N/A
She took what you told her at face value without a lab report looked up some graph or chart(like most incompetant allraisers do) online and thats how she came to the conclusion that the stones you got for less than $4000 are actually worth $40,000.
Steve, I am a pretty good judge of gemstone online photos. I have been looking at them since gemstones were first put online and on the internet. Yours in incadescent light have a very strong brown modifier. Very strong. That negates any 95% color change or anywhere close to that.
Here is a russian alexandrite from Pala. This stone(1.29ct.) probably cost $20,000-$30,000 but thats just a guess. This is a top quality stone. Your appraiser gave you top quality stone prices but yours look nothing like this. Granted your white balance on your camera may be off but not by that much and not enough to make them look like this IRL.
Steve, we and I are not trying to rag on you or put you down. We are trying to correct misinformation that has been erronously given to you. I have been doing this a long time and I can say with almost 100% certainty that the information you have been given and the information you are believeing is wrong.. If these "russian"(and indian) alexandrites are worth $40,000 then why not get a lab report. Whats that cost? $250 at most? If they truly are russian alexandrites the very first thing I would do would be get a lab report. Thats even before I would get diapers for my newborn. Thats how important it is.
Oh yea, the oilpearl seller does have one toolhaus that says "ruby not as tested" or something along those lines Thats enough for me to question any stone they sell.
Steve, everyone that has posted seems to like you and enjoy your post and gemstones, I being one of them. They are trying to be sincere without being to harsh but as is the case it comes across as hurtful and harsh when people tell you what you don't want to hear. I know I get that way as well as many other on here I am sure. Please take the information that has been given here. Sit back, think about it, and come to a reasonable conclusion. The only information you have on these stones is what someone else has told you. You have no verifiable facts or lab reports to back up what the people who sold you or appraised your stones told you.
You need to look at it like a used car salesman. You show up on a seedy looking car lot with a guy who has a comb-over and a mustache whos name is Lester . He says this car you are looking at runs perfectly, never had any problems, never been in a car accident, is in "like new condition". You won't just hand over $4000 dollars and drive off. You would want to look under the hood. You would want to start it up and listen to the motor. You would want to look in the trunk and the backseat and all around. You would want to bring your brother or father along, who know much more about cars than you do, to check out and make sure everything under the hood looks good. Lester will tell you what you want to hear to sell you the car regardless of the problems or issues it has.
Car lot=ebay
lester=gem seller
car=gemstone
Steve, you need to get away from this appraiser. You like her alot. Why? Because she is telling you what you want to hear regardless of whether it's true of not. Who wouldnt like her or to hear the appraisals she is giving. I know I would.
Okay lets see you said:
"the faceted alex-the 2.04 was bought with a 1ct stone from cutters in bangkok-the original rough was bought from russian mines when they were open in early 2006-only the two stones were cut from the same rough possibly from the ural mountains area"
but in the previous post you said:
"my cost at auction on this item is less than $4,000.00 total"
I thought you bought the styone from "cutters in bangkok"? If I also remember you said in a previous thread that you got all of these, including the "russian", from ebay?
We all know that no russian alexandrite has been mined in a long time and definitely not in 2006. Alex has only been mined in the last 10 years from three locations and there are only 3 types of alexandrite currently in the market. From most to least expensive they are, in geographic order:
Brazilian (Hematatita
African: (Tanzania)
India: the new strike from Andrha Pradesh
(sri lanks, myanmar, zimbabawe
Lets say you got the the russian alexandrite direct from cutters in bangkok(you said auction and ebay in other post and threads) now explain to me why anyone and I mean anyone would sell all those alexandrites or even the 2 "russian" alexandtrites for less than "$4000" when they are worth $40,000?? Common sense tells you something is not right. Time and time again over the years you read or hear about someone thinking they have a clean "pigeon blood" mogok ruby they got for $500 thats magically worth $200,000, a vivid blue untreated kashmir sapphire they got for $200 worth $50,000 so on and so forth. Where do many of these stories come from...ebay!
Think about that. Why would anyone in their right mind sell $40,000 worth of stones for less than $4000? If you got them from ebay or from "cutters" in bangkok chances are they have been dealing and/or selling gemstones for a very long time and wouldn't just one day decide to sell some of their stones for $36,000 less than what they are worth. Makes sense, right? This is what the TV gem shows, like JTV, tell you. "This tanzanite is appraised and worth $4,000 but we are happy to offer it to you at a fraction of the cost and at only $500" If it's worth that much why would you sell it for $500?
Here is a qote from Richard Wise a titan in the gemstone industry: "Stoplight red to emerald green. When will we be finally rid of this myth. Alexandrite does not occur in those colors" [and I explain why in detail in my book]
You say yours is a 95% color change or actually your appraiser or who did tell you that by chance? A 100% color change is red hue to green hue with no modifiers or secondary colors. 100% color change doesn't exist in alexandrite or any other gemstone for that matter. A 95% color change Alexandrite is like an eyeclean mogok pigeon blood(looking into the face of god) ruby of 5cts. 1 in 10 millon.
So lets look at the information again:
95% color change
Russian alexandrite
One of the rarest if not the rarest type of stone to find in the entire world.
It was cut with a huge window(the lower one)
It was cut in 2006 and not 100 years ago which means someone 5 years ago cut one of the rarest stones in the entire world with an extremely large window.
Here is a quote from Alexandrite.net
"The older gemological literature is full of references in praise of the beautiful Russian Alexandrites but few of these stones have been seen in the West since the Russian Revolution in 1917. We know that the colors of the original Uralian material represented the Russian Imperial military colors of red and green. However with so few Russian stones available anywhere, we cannot really compare them with alexandrites from more recent discoveries."
"During this period, the Takovaya district on the eastern flank of the central Urals was mined extensively and many large emeralds and alexandrites were unearthed. Little specific production information is available but the deposit was thought to be nearly depleted at the turn of the century. No significant amount of new Uralian material has been reported since the Russian revolution in 1917."
"Information about the overall color and clarity of these Russian stones is scarce and today, there are few Russian alexandrites available anywhere. Irrespective of quality, Russian alexandrites are highly valued from a historical perspective alone and will command the highest prices especially if they are of high quality and their origin can be certified."
"Today, there is almost no production of Russian material and almost all of the original Russian stones are in museums or private collections. Even in Russia, most of the alexandrite sold today, are probably from other deposits outside of Russia."
"The AGL (American Gem Lab) endorses the percentage of color change system. Alexandrite with a 100% color change shows complete color change on every axis - all facets change color. If half of the facets change color, the gem is classified as a 50% change and so on. Most highly priced alexandrite has a color change percentage of around 85-95%. Stones with a 90% shift should be considered fine. For example, a stone that is teal green in daylight should become purplish red under the light bulb, with little green left when the lighting is changed."
Steve, your appraiser is feeding you a bunch of BS. I don't think she is doing it on purpose. I think she is uninformed and incompetant. This happens all the time. Appraisers get their G.G. and never see the inside of a lab or a classroom again. If he/she is older then it could be 10, 20, or 30 years since they have been in a lab or had continuing education. She is taking what you tell her and looking up online what the supposed worth should be and then turning around and copying what she read to you. She has no idea it's a russian alexandrite because neither you or her got a lab report. How do you know it's russian then? By what some ebay seller or cutter in bangkok told you? How does she or whoever know what the color change percentage is? I guarantee she got her information from someplace like this[copyed]
Average retail prices for alexandrite 2007 - 2008 Faceted (Alexandrite) 0.5 to 1 carat 1 carat plus
Top Red/Green $5,000 to $15,000/ct to $100,000/ct
Medium Red/Green $3,000 to $9,000/ct to 60,000/ct
Slight Red/Green $100 to $2,500/ct to $6,000/ct
Other colors $1,100 to $8,000/ct to $10,000/ct
Cabochon ( Alexandrite) 0.5 to 1 carat 1 carat plus
Strong red/green $500 to $2,500/ct to $30,000/ct
Cabochon (Cat´s Eye) 0.5 to 1 carat 1 carat plus
Strong red/green $1,500 to $5,000 N/A
She took what you told her at face value without a lab report looked up some graph or chart(like most incompetant allraisers do) online and thats how she came to the conclusion that the stones you got for less than $4000 are actually worth $40,000.
Steve, I am a pretty good judge of gemstone online photos. I have been looking at them since gemstones were first put online and on the internet. Yours in incadescent light have a very strong brown modifier. Very strong. That negates any 95% color change or anywhere close to that.
Here is a russian alexandrite from Pala. This stone(1.29ct.) probably cost $20,000-$30,000 but thats just a guess. This is a top quality stone. Your appraiser gave you top quality stone prices but yours look nothing like this. Granted your white balance on your camera may be off but not by that much and not enough to make them look like this IRL.
Steve, we and I are not trying to rag on you or put you down. We are trying to correct misinformation that has been erronously given to you. I have been doing this a long time and I can say with almost 100% certainty that the information you have been given and the information you are believeing is wrong.. If these "russian"(and indian) alexandrites are worth $40,000 then why not get a lab report. Whats that cost? $250 at most? If they truly are russian alexandrites the very first thing I would do would be get a lab report. Thats even before I would get diapers for my newborn. Thats how important it is.
Oh yea, the oilpearl seller does have one toolhaus that says "ruby not as tested" or something along those lines Thats enough for me to question any stone they sell.
Steve, everyone that has posted seems to like you and enjoy your post and gemstones, I being one of them. They are trying to be sincere without being to harsh but as is the case it comes across as hurtful and harsh when people tell you what you don't want to hear. I know I get that way as well as many other on here I am sure. Please take the information that has been given here. Sit back, think about it, and come to a reasonable conclusion. The only information you have on these stones is what someone else has told you. You have no verifiable facts or lab reports to back up what the people who sold you or appraised your stones told you.
You need to look at it like a used car salesman. You show up on a seedy looking car lot with a guy who has a comb-over and a mustache whos name is Lester
. He says this car you are looking at runs perfectly, never had any problems, never been in a car accident, is in "like new condition". You won't just hand over $4000 dollars and drive off. You would want to look under the hood. You would want to start it up and listen to the motor. You would want to look in the trunk and the backseat and all around. You would want to bring your brother or father along, who know much more about cars than you do, to check out and make sure everything under the hood looks good. Lester will tell you what you want to hear to sell you the car regardless of the problems or issues it has.Car lot=ebay
lester=gem seller
car=gemstone
Steve, you need to get away from this appraiser. You like her alot. Why? Because she is telling you what you want to hear regardless of whether it's true of not. Who wouldnt like her or to hear the appraisals she is giving. I know I would.
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If I wanted to know the true value of a stone, I would personally get an reputable lab report indicating all treatment, and origin if there's a premium attached to that. Then I would find a very conservative and experienced appraiser, such as Richard Sheerwood, to appraise the stone based on the lab report findings. It is the utmost importance to find an appraiser with lots of experience in colored gems, and keen moral judgement.
Lovinggems
Ideal_Rock
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Lovinggems|1295717423|2829691 said:
No, I have not, but I did hear good things about him. In all honesty, I don't really trust many appraisers, so I put his name out as an example since he is mentioned with very high regard on this forum. An appraisal is really most important for insurance purposes, or if you're planning on selling your stones at an auction. I would never rely on it for the price I would actually get on something, unless it was such a fine example of a super rare gem that rarely comes up for sale (ie : fine untreated 4 carat Burmese ruby, 3 carat fancy intense blue diamond, etc. . . ). In the cases of the rare of the rare, appraisals, or estimates, are often lower than expected, if you're bidding on the same items as Laurence Graff is.
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When I first started cutting, I met a girl who was a GIA graduate, and an appraiser. I gave her 4 of my stones and paid her to appraise them. The values she attached to the stones were on average 10 times higher than I could sell them for. I think the true value of a stone is either what you paid for it, or what someone is willing to pay you for it.
Typical appraisers don't have anywhere near the equipment or expertise that a real lab does to properly identify a stone. Wasn't that big blue sapphire (purchased as spinel) you had Steve originally identified by one of your appraisers as a natural stone? Then he or another one, after a second attempt decided it was a synthetic heat treated souped up thing?
Typical appraisers don't have anywhere near the equipment or expertise that a real lab does to properly identify a stone. Wasn't that big blue sapphire (purchased as spinel) you had Steve originally identified by one of your appraisers as a natural stone? Then he or another one, after a second attempt decided it was a synthetic heat treated souped up thing?
movie zombie
Super_Ideal_Rock
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having read this thread, i do not understand the OP's reluctance to have his stone/s sent to a reputable lab...reputable and experienced with color stones. this would end any doubts from the P* community [which i too totally share] and substantiate the claims his vendor/s made.
MoZo
ps the cost would be not only educational but would provide the OP with the paperwork to substantiate his stones when he decides to sell them for big money. no one will pay big money for stones that are not substantiated with acceptable and proper paperwork.
MoZo
ps the cost would be not only educational but would provide the OP with the paperwork to substantiate his stones when he decides to sell them for big money. no one will pay big money for stones that are not substantiated with acceptable and proper paperwork.
Lovinggems
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tourmaline_lover|1295717776|2829700 said:Lovinggems|1295717423|2829691 said:
No, I have not, but I did hear good things about him. In all honesty, I don't really trust many appraisers, so I put his name out as an example since he is mentioned with very high regard on this forum. An appraisal is really most important for insurance purposes, or if you're planning on selling your stones at an auction. I would never rely on it for the price I would actually get on something, unless it was such a fine example of a super rare gem that rarely comes up for sale (ie : fine untreated 4 carat Burmese ruby, 3 carat fancy intense blue diamond, etc. . . ). In the cases of the rare of the rare, appraisals, or estimates, are often lower than expected, if you're bidding on the same items as Laurence Graff is.
Thanks for clarifying TL.
Great point, Minousbijoux, which I forgot to include in my above post. All colored stone appraisers need or should ask or have a lab report for the stone they are appraising. There is no if's, and's, or but's about it. You can't appraise a colored stone properly without one or their own gemlab(Richard Sherwood=Sarasota gemlabs). Your appraiser doesn't have a gemlab and doesn't have a lab report for the stones she is appraising. What does that mean? She can't appraise stones properly. Good point, minousbijoux!
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Thank you JohnGem - you put it much more eloquently than I. The photo of the Alex you've posted looks like the Tino Hammid alex, surely that's not on the market is it?
Steve - In 2006 it wasn't possible to buy rough from Russia and certainly not from Bangkok or Ebay.
I'm so sorry if you are feeling battered and bruised by this thread. We are all desperately trying to help. Look at it this way, would we bother if we didn't care?
Steve - In 2006 it wasn't possible to buy rough from Russia and certainly not from Bangkok or Ebay.
I'm so sorry if you are feeling battered and bruised by this thread. We are all desperately trying to help. Look at it this way, would we bother if we didn't care?
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I'm not in the trade, but I would love to know the price of the Pala alex that JohnGem posted 
In general, they do nothing for me because almost all the ones I've seen seem to have a brown modifier in one direction or the other and are so badly cut as to detract from the gem. I have a small Brazilian one, excellent in color change and cut (kept in a safety deposit box because I'm intimidated by it ) that I paid a lot for. But that one from Pala looks like it has good cutting and amazing color and I don't think I've ever seen a Russian one. So how much?
In general, they do nothing for me because almost all the ones I've seen seem to have a brown modifier in one direction or the other and are so badly cut as to detract from the gem. I have a small Brazilian one, excellent in color change and cut (kept in a safety deposit box because I'm intimidated by it ) that I paid a lot for. But that one from Pala looks like it has good cutting and amazing color and I don't think I've ever seen a Russian one. So how much?about the 2.04ct-ur all making me go back-i bought the stones in 2006-was told two stones were cut from a single peice of rough purchased from russian mines-not sure of the date-out of the urals-the stones were cut & sold to a fellow from whom i bought from thailand who told me the stones were cut early in 2006-not sure of the date the rough was mined-dont think it makes too much difference-the other stone i believe was from material about 10 yrs old in 2006-was bought from another dealer or wholesaler-the color change on both stones is amazing & the 2.04ct stone goes from a green to red just by switching the lights-something to see-the pics dont do justice-the larger stone goes from green with blue tones to a reddish purple almost the entire stone-again good change-am very sorry to keep kicking a dead horse, just trying to explain as much as possible-when i first showed the smaller stone to the first appraiser she observed the stone with the other jewelers who were there in the shop the light change from green to red-she said she had never seen such a color change alex to the degree of that stone-they observed the change for almost 30 minutes, then got on with the appraisal-the first of at least 4 to date-steve...
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minousbijoux|1295724494|2829830 said:I'm not in the trade, but I would love to know the price of the Pala alex that JohnGem posted
Minous I'm pretty sure that's the Tino Hammid Alex. If so, it's 1.29ct and is one of the most photographed HOWEVER very few people have seen it in real life and so the colour change, I don't think, has been quantified. I believe (again not sure) that Richard Wise mentions this particular alex in his book.
A good Alex won't have a brown modifier - the cheaper end ones do unfortunately. Typically you'll see blue or grey modifiers in higher end gems. This is one gemstone that's like marmite (not sure if you have marmite in the US) and it's an acquired taste - you either love or hate it!
FrekeChild
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Ok, if you are so convinced that this appraiser is right, then why not send some of your stones off to a lab and then post the results so we will eat crow?
If we've all been wrong this entire time, I'm sure we'd be happy to eat our words and apologize. And you'll have paperwork to back up the appraised values for your stones.
If you're wrong, you'll gain the knowledge that you've been being had by this appraiser and you'll be that much more knowledgeable and you will know who to not recommend for friends.
Really Steve, if you have a collection that is truly worth the $200,000 you have touted, then gem reports are drops in the bucket of that investment. Right now, you are doing nothing to protect this investment, and that is scary to me. And to other posters here.
If we've all been wrong this entire time, I'm sure we'd be happy to eat our words and apologize. And you'll have paperwork to back up the appraised values for your stones.
If you're wrong, you'll gain the knowledge that you've been being had by this appraiser and you'll be that much more knowledgeable and you will know who to not recommend for friends.
Really Steve, if you have a collection that is truly worth the $200,000 you have touted, then gem reports are drops in the bucket of that investment. Right now, you are doing nothing to protect this investment, and that is scary to me. And to other posters here.
FC-dont be so ready to eat crow-im used to the taste myself-im not talking 1 appraiser-im using as many as 5 independent appraisers-they all have not seen all my stones but many have seen the same stones & have given similar positive appraisals on the same stones-they have nothing to gain except my money & that was given with no conditions-i bought a service & was pleased with the outcome-iv had positive reactions from people all over country whom i met at gem shows in the business for years that would comment in a positive mannor-its neet to walk down an isle with an alex pendent on & b called over by a seller-from california in this instance-& b asked [is that what i think it is] referring to the alex pendent i had on at the time-thats satisfying-let me have another helping of crow- thanks steve...
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Minous - it's not for sale I don't think, see here:
http://www.palagems.com/alexandrite_russia.htm#buying_guide
http://www.palagems.com/alexandrite_russia.htm#buying_guide
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m76steve|1295728245|2829897 said:
Steve you really aren't listening to anybody. Appraisers do NOT have the wide experience of coloured gemstones (generally) to be able to put a value on every single variety of stones - they go off guides. Unless they've seen a particular stone hundreds of times they won't necessary know whether your colour change and the percentage of colour change is good or bad (compared to an excellent stone). Your appraisers do not have the equipment to test. Your Russian "rough" is a myth and it's exactly the sort of lie that people use to sell "Russian" alex. If your 5 appraisers all appraised the stone(s) as Russian then you must surely by now be doubting their capability? Did not one of them say "sorry Steve but I highly doubt this is Russian"?
I have no doubt that the majority of your stones are natural gemstones. I'm sure they are. I just doubt the provenance and quality and the complete and utter guestimates of value that your appraisers are giving you. They are taking your money and telling you what you want to hear - that's what you're getting for your money, nothing more. Don't waste your hard earned dollars on them.
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