CBI vs. ACA question

[chamois]

I wonder how an ACA and a CBI would compare if the size and other numbers were all the same. That would be an interesting comparison for me I think

 

[daisygrl]

I wonder how an ACA and a CBI would compare if the size and other numbers were all the same. That would be an interesting comparison for me I think

I was wondering that, too.

This thread, however, might create doubt in many ACA owners. Here, the impression one can get is that CBI is always perfect and with ACA you need to get lucky to get the "right" one. It does not seem fair since both companies offer super ideal cuts and any person is lucky to own either.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

I wonder how an ACA and a CBI would compare if the size and other numbers were all the same. That would be an interesting comparison for me I think

I actually think this point is exactly what I was wondering when I asked this question.

 

[sledge]

I actually think this point is exactly what I was wondering when I asked this question.

IMO, to get a definitive answer you will have to compare an ACA and CBI that have nearly identical proportions.

This makes sense if think about it. I think we would all agree both ACA & CBI (along with other super ideals) will meet the following criteria:

• AGS000 certification
• True H&A symmetry
• Optimal ASET, IS and H&A images

That's cool, but it's still a RANGE.

Theoretically, either of these stones may meet all the above criteria but have slightly different personalities:

• Example A: 54 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 76 LGF
• Example B: 57 table, 61.1 depth, 34 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 78 LGF

We know numerically lower LGF's equal more fat arrows. So one immediate visual difference will be stone A has fatter arrows, whereas stone B will have more narrow arrows. But the table size will also play into the effect. Smaller tables with same sized LGF's actually make the arrows look more fat. So a 54 table w/ 76 LGF will look more fat than a 57 table w/ 76 LGF. So such a stone will appear to have very fat arrows (according to MRB standards, nothing compared to OEC's).

Because the arrows reflect back as black when obstructed, it's possible that someone may prefer (or dislike) stone A because it may appear to have different contrast levels when fully or partially obstructed. Not to mention small light performance differences between 76 and 78 LGF's. Smaller LGF's produce bigger bolder flashes, whereas larger LGF's will provide more splintery type flashes.

I don't feel it necessary to continue going down this rabbit hole. The point is the same....the proportions matter and may have an effect on how a person responds to a particular diamond. Some people may all seem them as the same, or one as better or worse. Most likely, that person won't really know why they do or don't like the stone.

If you have two stones with different proportions and also different brands, you may get a false positive that one brand is more superior to the other, when in reality your eye prefers the personality of a particular set of proportions.

 

[AstoriaSwan]

I have been fortunate enough to see both CBI and ACA diamonds in person. In fact, our final choice was between two diamonds of nearly identical proportions.

CBI: 1.871 F SI1. 56.8 table, 61.4 depth, 34.6 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 77 LGF
ACA: 1.873 F VS2. 56.5 table, 61.5 depth, 34.6 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 77 LGF

As others have noted, both CBI and ACA are exceptional diamonds, and much of the decision comes to personal preference. Between these two specific diamonds, we could identify which was which each time. We ended up choosing the CBI, both for "personality" preference and for being more eye clean. The appraiser said she assigned the same clarity grade to both diamonds. Once my wife saw the darker inclusion in the VS2, she couldn't un-see it, whereas the inclusions in the SI1 were lighter in nature.

Seeing the diamonds in person and under different lighting conditions is the best way to evaluate. It's hard to capture the differences on paper or even in videos. I have linked to a 50 sec video from that viewing experience. The post has more detail about our selection process, in case that's helpful to anyone.

AGS Reports

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10112

https://www.whiteflash.com/pdf/104100649048.pdf

Selecting a HPD/CBI in person (w/pics and video comparison)

First of all, I’m thankful for Pricescope and all of the posters who’ve provided so much insight. I’ve been reading for a few months, but these are my first posts. I’m a research analyst, and the considered and passionate discussions have been helpful. Summary After searching in high end B&M...

www.pricescope.com

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I have been fortunate enough to see both CBI and ACA diamonds in person. In fact, our final choice was between two diamonds of nearly identical proportions.

CBI: 1.871 F SI1. 56.8 table, 61.4 depth, 34.6 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 77 LGF
ACA: 1.873 F VS2. 56.5 table, 61.5 depth, 34.6 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 77 LGF

As others have noted, both CBI and ACA are exceptional diamonds, and much of the decision comes to personal preference. Between these two specific diamonds, we could identify which was which each time. We ended up choosing the CBI, both for "personality" preference and for being more eye clean. The appraiser said she assigned the same clarity grade to both diamonds. Once my wife saw the darker inclusion in the VS2, she couldn't un-see it, whereas the inclusions in the SI1 were lighter in nature.

Seeing the diamonds in person and under different lighting conditions is the best way to evaluate. It's hard to capture the differences on paper or even in videos. I have linked to a 50 sec video from that viewing experience. The post has more detail about our selection process, in case that's helpful to anyone.

AGS Reports

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10112

https://www.whiteflash.com/pdf/104100649048.pdf

Selecting a HPD/CBI in person (w/pics and video comparison)

First of all, I’m thankful for Pricescope and all of the posters who’ve provided so much insight. I’ve been reading for a few months, but these are my first posts. I’m a research analyst, and the considered and passionate discussions have been helpful. Summary After searching in high end B&M...

www.pricescope.com

Goodness! You had 6 CBIs and 1 Whiteflash ACA to choose from! That's amazing! This is a good example of what we were talking about regarding seeing many stones with different specs and determining color, clarity, and measurement preference! I had no idea HPD sends as many as 6 stones when you want to look at their stones. The shipping must be costly for them! Very helpful, though. I've been to Whiteflash and had the opportunity to do the same thing, and while every diamond performed extremely well, I realized I am a little color sensitive and prefer H or higher color. But I also like higher clarity, and that combo of higher color and clarity expensive, unfortunately! Glad she was able to narrow down her preferences and get a stone she loves!

 

[daisygrl]

LOL, you are about to open a can of worms.

Short version....both are top notch vendors well known for the excellent customer service & superb diamonds. You will have people from both sides that believe one brand is better than the other.

Most the time, it seems to be stated as a small difference and that there is sometimes more contrast in CBI stones, which some people like. Others tend to prefer ACA's. Red vs Blue, which is better?

One area that is less subjective is the fact that CBI has one product line. WF has 3 different product lines:

1. A Cut Above (ACA)
2. Expert Select (ES)
3. Premium Select (PS)

ACA is WF's premier H&A stone that is equivalent to a CBI.

The ES and PS stones offer a little better value but are "near miss" ACA's for one reason or another. Usually very minor stuff that isn't appreciable to the naked eye. But that is not a hard & fast rule. You always need to verify why they missed the ACA mark. Generally speaking, when most people talk about WF, they are referring to their ACA stones.

Also, I think it's fair to say that most the time ACA's are priced more competitively than CBI's. As such, you sometimes see more recommendations and more purchases of ACA's, as the dollar drives many decisions. Although lately, HPD (distributor/vendor of CBI stones) have been offering a free setting with purchase of a stone. Depending on specifics, that may offset any cost difference between ACA and CBI.

Lastly, both HPD and WF offer a really great upgrade program. Spend $1 more and get full credit. No other strings. With HPD, they even let you trade 1 larger stone for 2 smaller ones. Not sure if WF will do that. Also HPD offers a unique 80% lifetime buyback policy that no one in the industry matches. WF does offer a 70% buyback for 1 year. WF does offer a unique 50% upgrade program on designer settings that to my knowledge no one matches.

Also, looking at the pure quantity of stones, if upgrading is important WF tends to have a larger selection to choose from most the time.

You might have noticed I switched from stating CBI above when comparing HPD to WF. The reasoning is simple: I understand the upgrade & buyback policies are in direct relation to the vendor offering the CBI stone. HPD is a popular American internet vendor, but because the way CBI utilizes both domestic and international jewelers to distribute their stones, the policies could vary if you bought from someone other than HPD specifically. For instance, Fortez is an international company and helping some overseas buyers, I noticed they specifically do NOT offer the same perks as HPD. So it's something you need to be aware of, although most people love Wink and the HPD team.

By chance, have you done any research yet? There are several threads on here with pictures and videos comparing both WF and CBI to one another.

@sledge, I was drawn by what you mentioned that CBI is offering a free setting with purchase of a stone. Do you know if the deal is still going on? I haven't seen it on their site but will call them tomorrow about the stone I am interested in and it would be nice if it came with a free setting.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

IMO, to get a definitive answer you will have to compare an ACA and CBI that have nearly identical proportions.

This makes sense if think about it. I think we would all agree both ACA & CBI (along with other super ideals) will meet the following criteria:

• AGS000 certification
• True H&A symmetry
• Optimal ASET, IS and H&A images

That's cool, but it's still a RANGE.

Theoretically, either of these stones may meet all the above criteria but have slightly different personalities:

• Example A: 54 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 76 LGF
• Example B: 57 table, 61.1 depth, 34 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 78 LGF

We know numerically lower LGF's equal more fat arrows. So one immediate visual difference will be stone A has fatter arrows, whereas stone B will have more narrow arrows. But the table size will also play into the effect. Smaller tables with same sized LGF's actually make the arrows look more fat. So a 54 table w/ 76 LGF will look more fat than a 57 table w/ 76 LGF. So such a stone will appear to have very fat arrows (according to MRB standards, nothing compared to OEC's).

Because the arrows reflect back as black when obstructed, it's possible that someone may prefer (or dislike) stone A because it may appear to have different contrast levels when fully or partially obstructed. Not to mention small light performance differences between 76 and 78 LGF's. Smaller LGF's produce bigger bolder flashes, whereas larger LGF's will provide more splintery type flashes.

I don't feel it necessary to continue going down this rabbit hole. The point is the same....the proportions matter and may have an effect on how a person responds to a particular diamond. Some people may all seem them as the same, or one as better or worse. Most likely, that person won't really know why they do or don't like the stone.

If you have two stones with different proportions and also different brands, you may get a false positive that one brand is more superior to the other, when in reality your eye prefers the personality of a particular set of proportions.

This was extremely helpful! It makes a ton of sense to me. Thanks!

 

[KristinTech]

@sledge, I was drawn by what you mentioned that CBI is offering a free setting with purchase of a stone. Do you know if the deal is still going on? I haven't seen it on their site but will call them tomorrow about the stone I am interested in and it would be nice if it came with a free setting.

I believe it ended with Valentine’s Day, but be sure to ask anyway!

 

[soxfan]

@sledge, I was drawn by what you mentioned that CBI is offering a free setting with purchase of a stone. Do you know if the deal is still going on? I haven't seen it on their site but will call them tomorrow about the stone I am interested in and it would be nice if it came with a free setting.

It doesn't hurt to ask. I have that free setting and it's superb.

 

[daisygrl]

It doesn't hurt to ask. I have that free setting and it's superb.

I asked. No free setting. Their Tiffany style is rather overpriced but very pretty though.

 

[sledge]

It doesn't hurt to ask. I have that free setting and it's superb.

If you don't mind sharing.....what type of a setting is it? Did you have multiple options, or just a one & done deal?

 

[sledge]

I asked. No free setting. Their Tiffany style is rather overpriced but very pretty though.

Sorry.

Didn't know it expired. When I posted that I had heard others talking about it not long before then.

 

[chamois]

I asked. No free setting. Their Tiffany style is rather overpriced but very pretty though.

Sorry you missed that offer.

Did you ask about the stone you were interested in?

 

[soxfan]

If you don't mind sharing.....what type of a setting is it? Did you have multiple options, or just a one & done deal?

Sledge, it's a stuller classic solitaire setting. That was the only option- I could have gotten the crown one and paid the difference. They were willing to get me whatever one I wanted.

 

[daisygrl]

Sorry you missed that offer.

Did you ask about the stone you were interested in?

Yes, I did and they were amazing. They are planning on shipping the diamond to not only my state but closer to my city (from Idaho) so that I can view it in person. I realized that I could never just buy a diamond online. I need to see it, compare...etc It hasn't happened yet but hopefully they will live up to their word.