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Caracas?

Brown.Eyed.Girl

Brown.Eyed.Girl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
6,893
Anyone been? Any advice? Is it really that dangerous and scary? All the things I'm reading on the internet make it sound...well...less than desirable as far as living there (especially for a non-Spanish speaker). Help!
 
I have not been. I read your other thread, and this sounds like a great opportunity, but given the little I read on-line just now about Caracas, I'd have the same concerns you do. You mentioned that you'd spend most of your time in the office or at your apartment. How would you get to and from each place? I'm wondering whether the firm provides a car service? It sounds like they wanted to make sure you were aware of the safety issues in Caracas, but did they say whether they will offer any specific security measures to help deal with those issues?
 
Loves Vintage said:
I have not been. I read your other thread, and this sounds like a great opportunity, but given the little I read on-line just now about Caracas, I'd have the same concerns you do. You mentioned that you'd spend most of your time in the office or at your apartment. How would you get to and from each place? I'm wondering whether the firm provides a car service? It sounds like they wanted to make sure you were aware of the safety issues in Caracas, but did they say whether they will offer any specific security measures to help deal with those issues?
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I'm not sure. I would try to get an apt. right near the building, but I've read that people have been kidnapped or robbed even from "secure" apartments, and also in touristy, relatively safe areas. The office is in one of the nicest neighborhoods but...I hear that doesn't necessarily mean much.

I'm worried about being robbed on the way to the airport (apparently the road there is really rife with criminal activity and you're recommended NOT to go to the airport when it's dark), being extorted for money by fake police or corrupt police, express kidnappings, muggings, and I'm also a 5'1" Asian girl so I would stick out like a sore thumb. No chance of passing for a local and keeping a low profile I think.

The office is very small. The people would look out for me, but of course, it's not like I can hire a bodyguard to accompany me every time I have to go home alone when I work late, or go out shopping, or go to the airport, you know? They don't provide a car service. I don't think there are any specific security measures in place, because all the attorneys are locals so they're fairly used to living there.

Sigh, no idea how to proceed.
 
B.E.G. - I think you've got to weigh the pros and cons, like you would for any other job opportunity. The only information I read was on the State Dept website: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1059.html. From what I read there, I personally do not think I could go. I hate to be so negative, but I am being honest. What are the pros? And, do they outweigh putting your personal security at risk?

I'm assuming this is a large international firm. Maybe there is an equally great opportunity available somewhere else with the same firm?
 
Loves Vintage said:
B.E.G. - I think you've got to weigh the pros and cons, like you would for any other job opportunity. The only information I read was on the State Dept website: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1059.html. From what I read there, I personally do not think I could go. I hate to be so negative, but I am being honest. What are the pros? And, do they outweigh putting your personal security at risk?

I'm assuming this is a large international firm. Maybe there is an equally great opportunity available somewhere else with the same firm?
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Thanks LV. I'm just not sure if I'm overreacting. Admittedly I am a scaredy cat when it comes to traveling, but that's also because I'm very aware of my limitations and how tempting a target I can be (female, small, foreign, young, etc.). I like to minimize my risks, without a doubt. I read the State Dept. website before going to any blogs, and yeah, it was pretty scary.

So pros:

Great for my career. I mean, I would be back in Biglaw. Salary in the 6 figures (and I have a lot of debt). I have no experience so it's hard to get hired, so this is especially good. The goal would be for me to get my Spanish up to fluency and start developing contacts with clients. They anticipate that I would be the go-to person, despite my inexperience, for US companies doing business in Venezuela (since all the other attorneys are locals, and while their English is good, those companies might like working with an American). They also anticipate that I could be the go-to person for Asian clients (and apparently there's been increasing business between Asian companies and Latin America). After 12-18 months, during which my Spanish needs to improve, I'd transfer back to the Miami office permanently, but I'd probably still travel a lot I bet back and forth. It's a nice niche for me. The job itself is perfect, I liked the firm and the attorneys, and I would love to be in Miami. It's just the Caracas part.

Cons:

The safety issue. Without doubt. There's no point in having a great salary if I'm either 1) not around to enjoy it; or 2) become a paranoid wreck from looking over my shoulder or getting robbed.
 
I do not think you are overreacting at all. I think even if they did offer some additional security measures, like a car to and from the office, that you would probably still feel quite uncomfortable. The kidnapping bothers me, A LOT, obviously. It would take a lot to get me past that.

I will say that you are absolutely correct that you would be an asset to US companies at this firm. I work in-house and we have outside attorneys in Brazil who are very difficult to communicate with, despite their good English. We will sometimes ask questions, and receive answers, that seem in no way related to the actual question. I'm sure we would much rather speak with you, even if it meant you had to go back and discuss with the other attorneys. And, obviously, you would learn a lot and quickly.

With all of that said, I just can't see it being worth the risk. It sounds like the attorneys at the firm were very frank with you. See what further you hear from them. I wish you best luck with your decision, and sorry for being such a downer, but you are not overreacting.

ETA: Would there be an opportunity for you to visit before you decided on the move? Also, have you looked into clerkships at all? Sometimes judges may have a need to hire someone on a temporary basis, or in short order (so not on the typical, year or so in advance schedule). Since you are open geographically, there might be a possibility there. I will see if I can find the website I'm thinking of later tonight. Not sure if that's something that would interest you, though . . .
 
B.E.G:

The fact is that many Americans do in fact live in places where the US Consulate has warnings in place.

Key things: Act as a normal working person - and don't show off.

Biggest thing - a lot of things that "work" in America do not "work" overseas... You will be welcomed if you show an earnest interest in learning the local culture and why they believe what they do.

Nothing can prevent you from a random attach (true everywhere - including Chicago); however, you can prevent yourself from becoming an obvious target. Learn to blend in - it helps to keep you safe.

Personally, I'd be likely to take the job if it were not for my allergies.

Best wishes,

Perry
 
Thanks Perry for your response. I would definitely try to be low-key. However, I have one big thing going against me in blending in - I'm obviously not Hispanic. I tend to stick out a bit, I would imagine, in South America (since I'm Asian).

Here is what the State Dept. website says about Safety -

SAFETY AND SECURITY: Violent crime in Venezuela is pervasive, both in the capital, Caracas, and in the interior. The country’s overall per capita murder rate is cited as one of the top five in the world. The Venezuelan National Counter Kidnapping Commission was created in 2006, and since then, official statistics have shown alarming increases in reported kidnappings throughout the country. In fact, kidnappings in 2009 have increased anywhere from 40-60 percent from the previous year. Surveys show that the overwhelming majority of kidnappings and other major crimes are not reported to the police. Armed robberies take place throughout the city, including areas generally presumed safe and frequented by tourists. Well-armed criminal gangs operate widely, often setting up fake police checkpoints. Only a very small percentage of crimes result in trials and convictions.

Travel to and from Maiquetía Airport, the international airport serving Caracas, can be dangerous, and corruption at the airport itself is rampant. Both arriving and departing travelers, including foreigners, have been victims of personal property theft and muggings in the airport. The embassy has received multiple, credible reports that individuals wearing what appear to be official uniforms or other credentials are involved in facilitating or perpetrating these crimes. For this reason, U.S. citizen travelers should be wary of all strangers, even those in official uniform or carrying official identification, and should not pack valuable items or documents in checked luggage. Valuable documents and personal items should be kept in carry-on luggage. The embassy has also received multiple, credible reports of victims of “express kidnappings” occurring at the airport, in which individuals are taken to make purchases or to withdraw as much money as possible from ATMs, often at gunpoint. Furthermore, there are known drug trafficking groups working from the airport. Travelers should not accept packages from anyone and should keep their luggage with them at all times.

The embassy also has received reports of uniformed airport officials attempting to extort money from travelers, including U.S. citizens, as they go through the normal check-in and boarding process for departing flights. Other reports from U.S. citizens and U.S. government officials state that uniformed individuals have approached travelers immediately upon entering the terminal when exiting Venezuela through Maiquetia Airport. These uniformed individuals reportedly may ask travelers where they are traveling and then escort them to a separate area to inspect their bags for illegal drugs or money. In certain cases U.S. citizens have reported that they were forced to sign documents in Spanish that they did not understand. Travelers should not sign documents that they do not understand, but if they feel they must, they should sign “I do not understand this document” or “I cannot read the above statement” as part of their signature.

The road between Maiquetía Airport and Caracas is known to be particularly dangerous. Visitors traveling this route at night have been kidnapped and held captive for ransom in roadside huts that line the highway. Because of the frequency of robberies at gunpoint, travelers are encouraged to arrive and depart only during daylight hours. If not, travelers should use extra care both within and outside the airport. The embassy strongly advises that all arriving passengers make advance plans for transportation from the airport to their place of lodging. If possible, travelers should arrange to be picked up at the airport by someone who is known to them or at least try to caravan in known groups en route to Caracas. Travelers should be aware of chokepoints inside tunnels and avoid obstacles in the road.

The embassy has received frequent reports of armed robberies in taxicabs going to and from the airport at Maiquetía. There is no foolproof method of knowing whether a taxi driver at the airport is reliable. The fact that a taxi driver presents a credential or drives an automobile with official taxi license plates marked libre is no longer an indication of reliability. Incidents of taxi drivers in Caracas overcharging, robbing, and injuring passengers are common. Travelers should take care to use radio-dispatched taxis or those from reputable hotels. Travelers should call a 24-hour radio-dispatched taxi service from a public phone lobby or ask hotel, restaurant, or airline representatives to contact a licensed cab company for them.

For more information regarding transportation services, please refer to the U.S. Embassy Caracas website. The embassy does not vouch for the professional ability or integrity of any specific provider. The list is not meant to be an endorsement by the Department of State or the embassy. Likewise, the absence of any individual or company does not imply lack of competence.

While visiting Venezuela, U.S. citizens are encouraged to carry as little U.S. currency as possible and to avoid wearing expensive or flashy watches and jewelry. Due to the poor security situation, the embassy does not recommend changing money at the international airport. Visitors should bring a major credit card, but should be aware of widespread pilfering of credit card data to make unauthorized transactions. Travelers’ checks are not recommended as they are honored in only a few locations. It is possible to exchange U.S. currency at approved exchange offices near major hotel chains in Caracas (personal checks are not accepted) and at commercial banks with some restrictions. Due to currency regulations, hotels cannot provide currency exchange. There are ATMs throughout Venezuela. Malfunctions are common, however, and travelers should be careful to use only those in well-lit public places. ATM data has also been hacked and used to make unauthorized withdrawals from user’s accounts. ATMs are also targeted by street gangs in order to rob people making withdrawals.

Popular tourist attractions, such as the Avila National Park, are increasingly associated with violent crime. U.S. citizens planning to participate in outdoor activities in potentially isolated areas are strongly urged to travel in groups of five or more and to provide family or friends with their itineraries prior to departure.

Cross-border violence, kidnapping, drug trafficking, smuggling, and cattle-rustling occur frequently in areas along the 1,000-mile long border between Venezuela and Colombia. Some kidnap victims have been released after ransom payments, while others have been murdered. In many cases, Colombian terrorists are believed to be the perpetrators. Colombia's National Liberation Army (ELN) and the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) are active in kidnapping. Common criminals are also increasingly involved in kidnappings, either dealing with victim's families directly or selling the victim to terrorist groups.

In-country travel by U.S. Embassy employees, both official and private, within a 50-mile area along the entire Venezuela/Colombia border, is prohibited. The State Department warns U.S. citizens not to travel within a 50-mile area along the entire Venezuela/Colombia border. U.S. citizens who elect to visit areas along the border region with Colombia despite this warning, apart from the Colombian terrorist threat, could encounter Venezuelan military-controlled areas and may be subject to search and arrest.

The U.S. Embassy must approve in advance the official travel to Venezuela of all U.S. government personnel. Private travel by U.S. military personnel to Venezuela requires advance approval by the U.S. Embassy. Please consult the Department of Defense Foreign Clearance Guide for further information. Non-military employees of the U.S. government do not need embassy approval for private travel.

Political marches and demonstrations are frequent in Caracas and in Venezuela. Travelers should be aware that violence, including exchanges of gunfire and tear gas, has occurred at political demonstrations in the past. Demonstrations tend to occur at or near university campuses, business centers, and gathering places such as public squares and plazas. Marches generally occur on busy thoroughfares, significantly impacting traffic. Most major tourist destinations, including coastal beach resorts and Margarita Island, have not in the past been generally affected by protest actions. The city of Merida, however, a major tourist destination in the Andes, has been the scene of frequent demonstrations, some of them violent, including the use of firearms and tear gas.
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Sounds like some of the places I visited decades ago...

I actually think your asian heritage will work better for you than if you were anglo..

Note that the advisory tells you some key items: Travel to and from the Airport only via a Major Hotel Arranged transportation (although your law firm may be able to provide transportation).

With some planning I don't see the trip as an unacceptable risk for me. Of course - your risk tolerance may be different.

In your case, I'd travel more like a college student. A backpack and nothing else other than the cloths you are wearing (lots of luggage is a give away). Other things can be shipped in - or acquired locally.

Have you discussed your concerns with the firm offering the employment. They may have a lot of answers - especially if they deal with international business people (who are traveling into and out of Caracas).

I would also set up a bank account with a bank with solid international ties.

Also, what does your SO think - and are they willing to relocate or wait.

I wish you the best,

Perry
 
BEG:

Something to really check out... While they are offering you a "good" sum of $$$$. What is the real cost of living (with security features). How much are you really going to make.

A couple decades ago I turned down several jobs where I was told that the salary was 6 figures. Its not that I really turned the jobs down - but given the location I replied that was great as long as the first digit was not a zero or a 1. $100,000 a year in some locations does not get you much when you consider housing, transportation, etc. (I had a friend who just accepted that he got something like a $55/day parking ticket so he could park near his office. Eventually he purchased a parking spot for a solid 5 digit number.

Perry
 
Personally, I wouldn't risk it. All the money in the world is not worth it if i'm not alive to spend it.
 
I wouldn't risk it myself either. I hate to say that b/c it sounds like such a great opportunity. Does the company have anything else at all available?
 
BEG -- I hadn't read this thread before commenting on your other one. While the job itself sounds interesting (and you'd learn so much!), your latest post about the security warnings would really concern me. I'd pass up the opportunity, although I hate to say it. Safety has to be #1 in my book, and I wouldn't want to take such a big risk.

I was also wondering if you'd be able to travel there and check it out for yourself before making any decisions. If you have that chance (and are still considering it), I'd definitely bring someone with you.
 
Thank you everyone. I truly appreciate your opinions and time, and it's been really helpful reading through your responses and seeing your perspective.

I'm feeling pretty guilty because I'm in a precarious position right now. I need to get a job soon, and this is a great opportunity both short- and long-term. I love the firm and I really liked the people and I think the work could be awesome too, but the location is just really wigging me out.

I've spent the last couple days talking to my family and friends, and most people are saying HECK NO. I did feel really awful talking to my ex (he's a lawyer now as well) and he basically told me to grow up and act like an adult and take the job if I get it. It felt pretty bad.

I'm still waiting to hear back so I figure there's no sense in worrying right now. I am hoping that unless something can be worked out (where I can go to a different office instead) I just don't get the offer because I don't want to have to choose.

I will definitely keep you guys updated.
 
B.E.G. said:
Thank you everyone. I truly appreciate your opinions and time, and it's been really helpful reading through your responses and seeing your perspective.

I'm feeling pretty guilty because I'm in a precarious position right now. I need to get a job soon, and this is a great opportunity both short- and long-term. I love the firm and I really liked the people and I think the work could be awesome too, but the location is just really wigging me out.

I've spent the last couple days talking to my family and friends, and most people are saying HECK NO. I did feel really awful talking to my ex (he's a lawyer now as well) and he basically told me to grow up and act like an adult and take the job if I get it. It felt pretty bad.

I'm still waiting to hear back so I figure there's no sense in worrying right now. I am hoping that unless something can be worked out (where I can go to a different office instead) I just don't get the offer because I don't want to have to choose.

I will definitely keep you guys updated.
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I wish you the best on this...

Great opportunities are always tied with great risk.

Perry
 
No, I wouldn't do it. I lived in a US city at the time it had the highest murder rate. You read about, saw on TV, heard about horrific crimes that happened blocks from where you lived. I never felt safe. I was very glad to leave. Since then, tragedies of enormous magnitude have befallen this particular city. I feel sorry for the people there. It was hard enough living there when I did.

And for someone to tell you to grow up about a decision like this seems inappropriate; that person is not being asked to make such a choice. As if every "grown up" person should naturally choose to take a job in a place that isn't safe.

You would be a foreigner with a high paying job. It doesn't sound good to me.
 
perry said:
I wish you the best on this...

Great opportunities are always tied with great risk.

Perry
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Thank you Perry. Very much appreciated.

Imdanny said:
No, I wouldn't do it. I lived in a US city at the time it had the highest murder rate. You read about, saw on TV, heard about horrific crimes that happened blocks from where you lived. I never felt safe. I was very glad to leave. Since then, tragedies of enormous magnitude have befallen this particular city. I feel sorry for the people there. It was hard enough living there when I did.

And for someone to tell you to grow up about a decision like this seems inappropriate; that person is not being asked to make such a choice. As if every "grown up" person should naturally choose to take a job in a place that isn't safe.

You would be a foreigner with a high paying job. It doesn't sound good to me.
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Danny, thank you for your perspective and your story. It's very valuable. For the last three years I've been living in South Side Chicago, but the one big advantage I had in that situation was that there was no language barrier (and that I had friends, a boyfriend, and university nearby). I feel like I would be at far more of a loss and much more vulnerable in this situation, which is why I'm so hesitant. I do understand the not feeling safe part. In the daytime it was usually fine where I lived, but I was always nervous at night. I would hate to think I'd be putting myself in a situation like that again - but magnified since Caracas, I think, is far more dangerous than where I was living in Chicago.

And I appreciate your words about the growing up comment. I felt like I was overreacting in that conversation (when that came up). I very much appreciate all of your guys' sympathy and views.
 
Pardon my bluntness, but what your ex said is ridiculous. Grow up and take the job? it's easy for him to say, considering he's not the one whose life will be in danger. Either he's a prick and has no regard for other's safety, or he's naive enough to think that bad things wouldn't happen to anyone he knows. This place is dangerous enough for the govt. to put up a huge warning... does he think it's just rubbish, that it doesn't happen?

I'm sorry you're in this predicament, and wish you the best in whatever you decide.
 
ForteKitty said:
Pardon my bluntness, but what your ex said is ridiculous. Grow up and take the job? it's easy for him to say, considering he's not the one whose life will be in danger. Either he's a prick and has no regard for other's safety, or he's naive enough to think that bad things wouldn't happen to anyone he knows. This place is dangerous enough for the govt. to put up a huge warning... does he think it's just rubbish, that it doesn't happen?

I'm sorry you're in this predicament, and wish you the best in whatever you decide.
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Hey Fortekitty. Thank you.

Well we have VERY different traveling styles. I like to be safe. He likes to go to developing countries, backpack alone, and go to dangerous places (i.e. he wants to eventually go to North Korea on a tour, and also he plans in the next few months to go to northern Iraq - he says "Well it's safe! It's the Kurdish area..." uh-huh...). Anyway, he's a risk-taker and gambler (literally! He was a pro poker player before law school) and I am VERY risk-averse. Not to mention, he's a white guy, I'm a small Asian female. I feel like our sense of personal danger isn't quite on the same level. So I do understand why he's much more dismissive, but it still hurts you know?
 
Hi B.E.G.

I was curious to see what the Australian govt had to say about travelling in Caracas (i'm Australian)


http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Venezuela


I think if you were leaning towards taking the job I would be negotiating I personal driver and your own private security to get you to and from work every day. I would also negotiate an apartment with excellent security and 24 hour surveliance.

I can definately see the predicament that you are in though, such a great opportunity yet so dangerous, but such a great opportunity!
If you have the chance, go over and have a look, I think it is the only way to get a better idea if it is right for you.

ETA: Are there other Americans over there working for the same company? Maybe you could get in contact with someone who could give you a better idea about how dangerous it is?
 
BEG -- I can't remember if you've mentioned it, but have you spoken to the firm about your concerns regarding safety? Maybe you haven't yet and are waiting to see if you get their offer. If it wasn't for the safety factor, you'd accept the position, right? If so, I'd definitely talk to them and, as HOT suggested, try to negotiate some sort of help. I also like the idea of trying to find out ahead of time whether there are other Americans working for the firm and living there as well.

Here's a thougt: Have you heard of City Data? It's a very helpful website with forums for all regions of the US, and I think there's an international section also. It's helped me when we've moved before because I could get advice on the area and post questions if I had them. It might be worth checking out. The website is citydata.com.
 
A couple questions:

Can you arrange to live with someone else who also works at your law firm?
This would be great for security purposes, and navigating Caracas, but obviously may not be possible, especially given that its a small office.

Can you connect with other Americans living there?
Expats often live together, and I think you have a very good chance at living with one of them (fingers crossed that your office will be near the Embassy). I know for certain that there are Fulbrighters that go to Venezuela; if you've made the decision to go, I'd be happy to find a few email addresses for you. I'd get in contact with the State Department and see if they can help you.

What is the area like that you will be working in?
Is it a purely commercial area? (ie. will you have to travel far to go home?)
Is the building you're working in well guarded?
Will they find you a reliable driver to drive you to and from work?
Could you live as a part of a hotel, or dormitory system? Something in which you are "protected" by being around a large group?
Can you live in a diplocmatic enclave, or is there one?
Is there hostility especially towards Americans? (it might make you more of a target)

Points to think about. Lots of dust to you as you make this decision.
 
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