Can't decide on some GSS pairs...

[michellechan2211]

...So decided to post for opinions!

So I was asking about some GSS pairs from Takahashi and they did manage to find me these with my (very small) budget, but now I can't decide which pair to go for.
As such, I thought I'd ask the Pricescope crowd to see what thoughts or opinions you guys might have on the pairs.





Thank you all!

 

[CMN]

The pair on the bottom right don’t seem as well matched in colour. The left pearl seems slightly lighter to me. The ones on the left hand side (both top and bottom row) look to be best matched. I am leaning towards the bottom row, left pair.

 

[icy_jade]

Bottom left

 

[Cerulean]

Both pairs on the far right don’t seem like good matches color wise

bottom left has the richest color, and they are big! Those jump out to me

 

[pearlsngems]

Bottom left.

 

[yssie]

What will you use them for - earrings?

Can you get mm measurements on all four in the bottom row?

I have to run. I have a complicated and kind of differing opinion but it’ll take a while to type out the “why”. Be back this afternoon.

 

[lovedogs]

Bottom left is my favorite pair

 

[Snowdrop13]

Just to be annoying- I like the middle two in the top row!

 

[michellechan2211]

What will you use them for - earrings?

Can you get mm measurements on all four in the bottom row?

I have to run. I have a complicated and kind of differing opinion but it’ll take a while to type out the “why”. Be back this afternoon.

Yes, using them for earrings!
I think mm wise, they are 7mm. Its a pretty interesting size for GSS, but it is the right size for this gift in my opinion.

And thanks all for your opinions thus far.

 

[yssie]

Yes, using them for earrings!
I think mm wise, they are 7mm. Its a pretty interesting size for GSS, but it is the right size for this gift in my opinion.

And thanks all for your opinions thus far.

I meant can you get them to measure with calipers - 7.1mm, 7.4mm, 7.8mm, etc.

 

[yssie]

Okay. I'm back.

Imagine that you're wearing a white shirt and black trousers, and you're looking at a white wall. Completely smooth. Coated in high-gloss laquer. It is "shiny" in that you can see your reflection clearly. Your white shirt looks bright white and your black trousers look kind of middling grey - they're clearly darker, but they aren't black the way a real mirror would reflect them. Everything else you're wearing and holding and everything around you is reflected clearly in terms of shape delineation, but the colours are muted.

Now imagine that you're looking at a black wall. Again completely smooth, again coated in high-gloss lacquer. It's also "shiny", again, in that same definition - everything about you and your surroundings is reflected with clear, precise delineation. Your black trousers look black and your white shirt looks middling grey, and all other colours are muted as well.

And now put yourself in front of a giant mirror. Everything black about you and your environment is reflected black, everything white is reflected white, everything else is reflected completely true to life.

The words "colour" and "luster" are often used to describe a number of disparate concepts. Let's separate them.
1. "Sharpness of reflection". How precisely are shapes delineated in the reflection on the pearl?
2. "Contrastiness". How black are the blacks that are reflected? And how white are the whites that are reflected?
3. "Body colour". What's the base colour of the pearl, ignoring overtone? We'll lump hue and saturation into "colour" here.
4. "Overtone strength". How metallic is the surface of the pearl?
5. "Overtone colour". What colour(s) does the pearl's overtone show? Again, let's lump both hue and saturation into "colour" here.

Two GSS pearls. Same size. Very similar body colour.



Absolutely everyone finds the right pearl more attractive. Both IRL and in photos. Why?
1. "Sharpness of reflection". Hold this thought.
2. "Contrastiness". The right pearl clearly wins.
3. "Body colour". Well, they're about the same. Both have lots of orange.
4. "Overtone strength". The right pearl is clearly more metallic and lively.
5. "Overtone colour". The right pearl has both pink and green overtone. We'll get there in a bit.

Back to #1. Sharpness of reflection. Here's another photo of the same pearls.



Look closely at the window reflections, and at the bottom of the camera and my arm. First pic below is a zoom of the pic right above this text. Second pic below is the same two pearls in different lighting.





The left pearl - the less lively pearl - clearly wins on "sharpness of reflection". The left pearl, in real life, looks like glossy orange plastic. Like an orange wall coated with laquer.

Takeaways?
1. "Sharpness of reflection". Precisely-delineated reflections by themselves don't translate into a lively and attractive pearl.
3. "Body colour". Saturation by itself doesn't translate into a lively pearl. But if you want a certain body colour then you want that body colour and that's a-okay.

Okay. Overtone strength and colour. Here's a pic from my Mikimoto thread - edited to highlight three pearls. These are white south seas.



If a pearl is iridescent, that means it's got some sort of overtone. The iridescence is what eliminates the glossy plastic effect - what creates that metallic look that nice south seas show. Overtone colour is easy enough to judge in the bottom pearl here - look at the halo of colour around the light reflection. The bottom pearl has strong silver overtone with a touch of teal. Sometimes overtones are different colours from the pearl body. Sometimes there's more than one overtone colour. Sometimes, though, the overtone is "neutral" - it's exactly the same colour as the pearl body itself. The top right pearl has no overtone of note. The top left pearl has very strong "neutral" overtone. The difference this makes is obvious. The top left pearl is lively and enticing and metallic. The top right pearl - glossy plastic.

I used white south seas to explain this bit because it's much easier to see against a white background, but the ideas and effects of neutral overtone, coloured overtone, and overtone absence translate identically for GSS!!

Takeaways.
1. "Sharpness of reflection". Precisely-delineated reflections by themselves don't translate into a lively and attractive pearl.
3. "Body colour". Saturation by itself doesn't translate into a lively pearl. But if you want a certain body colour then you want that body colour and that's a-okay.
4. "Overtone strength". Stronger overtone translates directly into a more lively and attractive (and metallic) pearl.
5. "Overtone colour". Doesn't matter at all in terms of metallicness and liveliness.

Contrastiness. One more pic. Try to ignore the super dry skin.



The bracelet on the right has nicer pearls in general than the bracelet on the left. Turns out that contrastiness - how white the whites look and how black the blacks look in reflections - is the single best predictor of how lively and metallic a pearl will look IRL. In every single pearl comparison I've done, with all types of pearls, to my and all my friends' and family's eyes.

Contrastiness doesn't have any dependence on sharpness of reflection. Doesn't have any dependence on body colour. Doesn't have any dependence on overtone colour. Doesn't have any dependence on nacre thickness once a certain nacre depth threshold is reached (which basically all nice pearls surpass). Has a very strong dependence on overtone strength, though, so I can simplify those five definitions -
1. "Sharpness of reflection". Precisely-delineated reflections by themselves don't translate into a lively and attractive pearl.
2. "Contrastiness". This is a direct indication of overtone strength. And stronger overtone translates into a more lively and attractive (and metallic) pearl.
3. "Body colour". Saturation by itself doesn't translate into a lively pearl. But if you want a certain body colour then you want that body colour and that's a-okay.
4. "Overtone colour". Doesn't matter at all in terms of metallicness and liveliness.

 

[yssie]

Going to be honest here, I can tell right away from these photos that none of these pairs are going to wow you. They're all pretty plastic-ey. I don't know what the budget parameters are, but would you be open to switching to a lighter body to improve pearl quality? Smaller size really isn't viable for GSS. But this deep gold body colour is costly!

Alternatively, ask Yy explicitly for golds with strong pink overtone. She found some beauties for my friend earlier this year.

 

[CMN]

As always, @yssie ’s posts are so informative and helpful. Thank you @yssie.

 

[Pearlescence]

Yssie's comments show an exhaustive examination of each pearl. ..However, these are pairs of 7mm gold rounds which are closely matched (not perfectly matched, indeed. 0.1 of a mm difference here, a slight difference in sharpness of lustre there) but these are 7mm rounds which will be worn with a head in between them.
What you buy in pearls must realistically be balanced against cost.
Pearls are organic, natural, unpredictable treasures. That is part of their beauty.
The OP may want to balance the almost imperceptible flaws against price.

 

[pearlsngems]

I still like the bottom left pair.

None of my pearls are perfect, none of my earrings perfectly matched. I still love them.

 

[yssie]

Folks, goal is to find the best and best-matched pearls within budget. I should have thought that’d be obvious, but since it’s apparently not - let me be explicit. These pearls may reflect the best and best matched that are available in budget, they may not, she loses nothing but time finding out and it’s up to her to decide if that loss of time is acceptable or not, no?

Everyone’s tolerances are different. What some may consider almost-imperceptible, others may consider unacceptable. My purpose here on PS is to give people as many tools as I have to help them educate themselves and form their own priorities.

 

[Pearlescence]

The OP made clear that these were the best available from a good company in her budget. Now, by pick-picking you may have spoiled the whole thing for her. I hope not.
I'd plump for top right. Lovely pair

 

[lovedogs]

The OP made clear that these were the best available from a good company in her budget. Now, by pick-picking you may have spoiled the whole thing for her. I hope not.
I'd plump for top right. Lovely pair

OP came here specifically asking for advice. @yssie gave advice. I have no idea how or why you would have a problem with that

 

[Cerulean]

Budget is almost always a concern for jewelry purchases, many people on this forum can’t have everything their heart desires bc budget just doesn’t permit it

I just want to add that @yssie shared that by going with a lighter body color, other traits could go “up” in quality

so “best” is relative there’s always a tradeoff.

I think that OP now has the information to make an informed purchase and decide if the deeper gold tone is more important than the other traits yssie called out

 

[lissyflo]

My purpose here on PS is to give people as many tools as I have to help them educate themselves and form their own priorities.

Hear, hear

 

[Pearlescence]

I shall endeavor to be less predictable in future.

 

[Cerulean]

I shall endeavor to be less predictable in future.

i don't think there is anything wrong with providing a different perspective, either

 

[lovedogs]

i don't think there is anything wrong with providing a different perspective, either

I dont either, as long as it's done respectfully. In this case, I think saying that @yssie May have "ruined the purchase" for OP was unnecessary and just rude

 

[pearlsngems]

@michellechan2211,

Clearly we are pearl nerds here (and you did ask for opinions ), but I really think you could be happy with any of the 4 pairs.
Is this to be a gift for you or are you giving them to someone else?

I have a pair of GSS studs that are 7.5mm. Their deep gold color makes up for their small size (even so, my large lobes dwarf them, sigh).
With GSS, I would prioritize color, as long as the other factors were acceptable.

 

[Cerulean]

I dont either, as long as it's done respectfully. In this case, I think saying that @yssie May have "ruined the purchase" for OP was unnecessary and just rude

oh yes, you are absolutely right!

 

[molinePDG]

We here, as I'm sure the OP can tell already, can be very spirited about pearls, can't we?

I'm not sure if any of this may or may not be helpful to the OP, but I'll leave some thoughts regardless, so read my rambling at your own risk.

As I'm sure you've already discovered, OP, there are many different "methodologies" that retailer, wholesaler, and consumer alike employ to look at pearls. Some, like yssie, are extremely methodical, analytical, and considering of any pearl choice. Others take a less meticulous approach and consider overall (subjective) "beauty" of pearls. This is both easier and harder to do with pearls than, say, diamonds. There isn't quite as much technical analysis we can (or maybe should) do as the cut nuts here on PS with diamonds, but this leaves things more subjective. Put another way: There isn't any real "right" way, but the easiest, least stressful way is probably something between the Uber methodical and the "buy it just if it looks good" strategy... but then again, that's just my opinion

There's no standard grading of quality elements or assessment for pearls, and this makes it difficult when it comes to buying and especially selling of pearls, to tell you the truth!

As with any gemstone, it's important to keep perspective in mind, and especially for pearls when there is no grading: How genuinely rare is the type/grade/size/aspect of pearl I'm looking at? How much time and energy do you/your vendor/seller wish (or are willing) to put into that search? And other questions that pertain to each individual looking and vendor providing.

I will say - what surprises most folks is that, much like diamonds, colored stones, and other PS-quality type goods... there really just isn't a ton of it out there relative to the grand scheme of "all stuff." Let's take gold south sea in general, for example: According to some 2009 data I have, of all south sea production that year, < 3% of it was golden in color. I'm sure the actual production numbers have changed up/down since then, but it's fair to say the percentage of total harvest being gold is probably about the same. Now, how much of that 3% is something we'd consider nice gold? Much less than that. How much had a good luster, clean surface, something that we could consider worthy to wear? Much less than that! And, finally in this case, how much of that was in 7mm? -- Very little, because that's an unusually tiny size for south sea pearls. Lastly, how much of that portion of a portion of a portion in 7mm matched well enough? - Who knows. Maybe some of it. Maybe none of it.

In my oh so humble opinion, I think when "we" (pearl selling folks) use the term "rare," we don't necessarily mean it as a "You will for sure never find this again, so buy it now" sales tactic, but it is genuinely a "this particular thing was a very small portion of a portion of a portion, so who knows when or if it'll be around again -- do with that what you will." It happens many times on PS in RT: People come compare their stone they bought pre-PS and find it's not an "ideal" stone and it somehow ruins all of the emotional enjoyment behind the piece, and I think all the advice in this thread regardless of how it was given is all given from a place with good heart: We (all of PS) would want you to be happy with whatever you purchase; so, yes, be meticulous and picky and educated and find the best pair for you in this instance, and also keep in mind that you don't always need technical perfection to be pretty darn happy and enjoying of particular pieces, so don't let not having "perfect" prevent you from enjoying pearls; finally and most importantly, don't let the overlap/balance/pursuit/method of whatever you choose -- "buy something that looks nice" or "analyze and search for particular quality elements" -- ruin the enjoyment in any way of what are all ultimately "want" items.


... but then again, that's just my opinion.

 

[yssie]

The last thing I will add to this thread:
Whilst some vendors will shy from discussion on topics like I posted about, @molinePDG is one vendor who does not - he's happy to have whatever depth of conversation his customers might want. And he considers all those nuances and more when you ask him to find you some pearls.
It's been a pleasure and a privilege to be able to chat with him and I credit him with so much of what I've learnt about pearls over the past few years!!

 

[michellechan2211]

First of all, thank you all for your comments! I'm late in replying so I really apologize.

Second of all, I found @yssie 's posts above really interesting and informative and something for me to keep in mind, so I would like to assure everyone that there was no "spoiling" of emotional enjoyment on my end (especially since I did ask for opinions!) and that I took it as a factor that weighed into my considerations. @molinePDG did put it well though!

In this case, I decided to go ahead with the bottom left pair as for this particular purchase, the more saturated body color is the most important factor to me (based on my knowledge of the recipient).

(That said, I would also like to highlight that for every purchase, there are different considerations to be made and so whatever I have prioritized here might not apply for everyone- and someone who has different criteria and priorities may well make a different choice.)

 

[eolian pearls]

Coming over from “the other” pearl forum to say: @yssie you are a blessing for all pearl buyers!!! You always patiently provide such thorough analysis of the pearl pictures presented that it feels like you are giving us a mastercourse in “reading pearls”! Thank you for all the time you put into your replies! I find it fascinating how you explain what I intuitively know looking at the pictures but never really thought about the “why” I feel like that. It is invaluable to have your methodical point of view, in this particular post I especially loved your pointing out the difference between “ the sharpness of reflection” and “contrastiness“, it explained a question in my mind I couldnt really figure out

Buying pearls can be so so tricky as we all know, and I believe the thing that “ruins the purchase” the most are unreasonable expectations. So “reading pearl” pictures really is a very handy art that can save a lot of time and money... To have “reasonable expectations” it is also important to understand what we are looking for in pearls and why. Is it a specific color? Because we know that it compliments our skin tone or is it because we saw a picture of someone wearing it and it looked spectacular?
It can be so disappointing to discover that while the pearls look fantastic on paper, on our skin it’s another story... Buying pearls online has become an act of “conscious buying” for me, also thanks to @yssie’s posts...

As for being on budget... it is especially important to know what you are looking for and what are you willing to sacrifice. For studs for me the perfect match is not a priority, you never have the earrings next to each other so as long as the size is the same and they are not extremely mismatched ( as of “unintentionally “ mismatched earrings, because I do love the intentionally mismatched ones ) I am happy. But they need to be both lustruous and have the color I am looking for. No apparent flaws, the backside can have some flaws or circles even, I dont mind what I dont see...This is me getting the perfect pearls for me online, everyone has their own priorities.

The great thing about pearls is that there are so many different colors and shapes so you’ll always find the ones that just shine on you Good luck with your purchase @michellechan2211! And thank you for providing opportunity to see more of Takahashis goldens!

 

[yssie]

@eolian pearls - thank you for registering over here just to make this post. I know that new forums can be a challenge to navigate - reason #1 I lurk but have never posted on The Other Forum!! Welcome to PS!! And your post here meant a lot to me personally

I’ve been active on PS for more than a decade. I spent most of those years in RT, though, the diamond focus forum. I’m pretty new to pearls!

On the diamond side of PS folks embrace the analytics. There’s a long history there. Decades ago diamonds were sold entirely on visuals. Buyers were encouraged to find beauty in natural stones. Perfect matches were deemed unrealistic, and cut quality - all the reasons that a diamond sparkles - was esoteria that consumers should be kept far away from.

The publicly-stated reason was that these were details that would simply confuse consumers. Of course, having consumers remain uneducated served seller’s purposes nicely - no need to strive for excellence in inventory if your customers will never know any better.

PS, the forum itself, was created to help educate consumers. PS was created to create an educated diamond market. For a long time PS was the only place where diamond cutters and diamond sellers who believed that consumers deserved better than that ubiquitous “don’t worry too much, don’t inspect too much, just trust me” could share their expertise, and where consumers who wanted to know more could come - for free! - to learn. The boutique diamond vendors whom PSers frequent know that their customers want the sparkliest stones, and that they might prioritize sparkle - cut quality - to the max within their budgets.

The diamond industry has transformed. The PS forum was one of the primary forces in that transformation. Nowadays diamond cut quality education pages, blogs, and exposes abound. Diamonds are graded by independent and universally-respected authorities, and consumers are widely educated to avoid buying stones without certification - which in turn leads more vendors to send more stones to those grading authorities. Many online vendors have cut quality brackets to sort by, which - in addition to their education pages - leads those vendors to stock up on stones that make their top cut grade. Consumers are demanding photos and evaluation prior to purchase as a matter of course, which leads more vendors to offer good quality photos, videos, and light reflector imaging as part of their default sales motions.

The diamond industry has seen clear evolution: Consumers value education. And educated consumers universally demand more information from their vendors; and educated consumers universally demand a higher quality of diamond.

Pearls aren’t diamonds, of course. With diamonds the rough looks nothing like the faceted finished stone. With a pearl what you see is largely what you get. Maeshori, bleaching, pinking, polishing - they can improve appearance marginally but there’s no concept of “cutting a pearl to create/improve light return”. The critical factors that influence pearl quality - water quality, the amount of time the host oyster is left to grow the pearl, host age, donor age, bead composition, how delicately the grafter does his or her work - those factors have influence only during pearl formation, not afterward.

But despite that difference, I confess that the pearls industry at large often feels like the diamond industry of eras bygone. No independent and globally-respected grading authorities. It’s commonplace for pearl vendors in the wider industry to explain mismatches and imperfections as “simply due to the fact that pearls are natural organic materials”. It’s also commonplace for pearl vendors in the wider industry to encourage consumers to look just past those mismatches and imperfections - the implication that any better than whatever is right here right now is unrealistic is as explicit as an implication can ever be. I’ve run into an awful lot of this sort of thinking in buying my own pearls.

And it’s true. To an extent. But it’s not the universally binding truth that those vendors would have their customers believe.

Better luster is almost always possible - if you’re willing to wait for it and pay for it, and if you’re working with a vendor who understands what you’re asking for and is willing to search for it. A better luster match is almost always possible - if you’re willing to wait for it and pay for it, and if you’re working with a vendor who understands what you’re asking for and is willing to search for it. More saturated colour is almost always possible - if you’re willing to wait for it and pay for it, and if you’re working with a vendor who understands what you’re asking for and is willing to search for it. A better colour match is almost always possible - if you’re willing to wait for it and pay for it, and if you’re working with a vendor who understands what you’re asking for and is willing to search for it. More contrast is almost always possible - if you’re willing to wait for it and pay for it, and if you’re working with a vendor who understands what you’re asking for and is willing to search for it. A better contrast match is almost always possible - if you’re willing to wait for it and pay for it, and if you’re working with a vendor who understands what you’re asking for and is willing to search for it.

Almost always possible. Not always, but almost always.

But most pearls vendors, even those who understand what you’re asking for, aren’t going to be willing to search for it. It’s just not cost-effective for them to do so. I’ll be blunt: It’s much cheaper to stock mediocre inventory and encourage customers not to think too much. I know that because those diamond vendors of those eras bygone did exactly the same thing, before PS came along and upended everything.

PS has always been focused on education, putting trust in the idea that an educated consumer base will, over time, improve quality of the product as a whole without raising prices across the board. Imagine if every person who bought a strand of akoya pearls demanded certification from PSL or PEPCA or GIA or IGI or any number of other independent authorities that haven’t managed to take market share? The average quality of akoya would improve within a decade or two. Retailers would default to stocking a higher quality of pearl. Their suppliers would be incentivised to buy a higher quality of pearl. Farmers would be incentivised to produce more of what the suppliers are buying. Curing the plague would get funding. (I say that… Tongue in cheek). Yes, it would take time. And yes, it would be costly. And then prices would come back down as this new quality bar is normalized. And yes, it would happen just like this. We’ve already watched it happen.

PS, on the diamond side, had always been the one place where tradepeople would credit consumers who choose to participate with being able and willing to learn more. The idea that education would turn a consumer off a purchase-to-be, or spoil a consumer’s purchase-to-be, when that consumer actively solicits help - is a really foreign concept. And on that side of PS it’s frankly insulting to that consumer. PS’ long-proven philosophy is that an educated consumer will make the most mind-clean, most cost-effective decision for his or her budget at this time and for this project. Every single person who buys luxury goods has budgets that are specific to those projects. Those budgets might be wildly different, depending on the project. An educated consumer will know what’s important to him or her, will know what to look for and what isn’t a personal priority… An educated consumer has the tools to make the choice that will make him or her happiest in the long term. An uneducated consumer doesn’t know what to look for, doesn’t know what’s most important to him or her, and may well come to regret his or her choice because it was made without consideration.

I’m no expert.

I’ve never confessed to be one.

And I’m beyond shocked to see tradepeople on PS take objection to anyone providing any sort of education. Tradepeople are the the experts who are supposed to be leading PS community learning!! Every single educational post that I’ve ever shared here on PS - those should have come from tradepeople. That model is what finally dragged the diamond industry into improvement. I hope to see the pearls industry evolve the same way, thanks to The Other Forum, and PS, and whatever other consumer resources are out there. In the meantime I will keep pick-picking as long as it’s useful to other consumers, and I will keep giving other consumers who ask for opinions the courtesy of assuming they’re actually requesting opinions and not presume they’re secretly looking for coddling, and hopefully at some point all tradepeople here on the pearls side of PS will decide to do the same.

For folks looking to learn more - here are some resources I love.
- The educational section of The Other Forum has a ton of great stuff. A lot of it is newer content created by the Cortez farm folks, but it’s not specific to their oysters.
- Andrew Moline has short education blurbs on his website, and he’s shared some Pearl Education pics on IG that are definitely worth going through.
- Old Pearl Paradise blogs have some fabulous nuggets. They’re also older, so you can step through them and watch history being made - evolution of Edison pearls, for example, year by year with photos.
- The Pearls As One course. It’s pretty well known on The Other Forum. I don’t know how much I can say or not about this, but highly recommend it!