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Can someone help picking a engagement ring? Thanks.

xzhao

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
5
Since I decide to get an engagement ring for my girlfriend(not fiancee yet:), I have been read many posts here and really have benefited a lot.
Sorry my English is not good. Currently I have couple Tiffany E-ring numbers, I hope I could get a best one for her. I did lots of research, it seems there are some range of numbers that an excellent diamond need to fall into. To me, I think the first one is the best one since it meets every range requirement, but the Pavilion Angle seems too big? Anyone can give me some suggestions?
All diamonds are F, VS1, 3EX, No fluorescence. Thanks!

#1: HCA: 2.2
Total Depth Percentage: 61.6%
Table Size Percentage: 58%
Crown Height Percentage: 14,7%
Crown Angle: 34.7%
Pavilion Depth Percentage: 43.5%
Pavilion Angle 41%
Girdle Thickness: Medium - Slightly Thick
Girdle Finish: Faceted
Culet: None
Lower Half Length Percentage: 75%
Start Length Percentage: 50%
========================================
#2: HCA: 1.2
Total Depth Percentage: 62.6%
Table Size Percentage: 55%
Crown Height Percentage: 16.1%
Crown Angle: 35.2%
Pavilion Depth Percentage: 43%
Pavilion Angle 40.7%
Girdle Thickness: Medium - Slightly Thick
Girdle Finish: Faceted
Culet: None
Lower Half Length Percentage: 75%
Start Length Percentage: 50%
========================================
#3: HCA: 2.9
Total Depth Percentage: 62.7%
Table Size Percentage: 57%
Crown Height Percentage: 15.3%
Crown Angle: 35.3%
Pavilion Depth Percentage: 43.3%
Pavilion Angle 40.9%
Girdle Thickness: Medium - Slightly Thick
Girdle Finish: Faceted
Culet: None
Lower Half Length Percentage: 75%
Start Length Percentage: 50%
========================================
Attach with the cheat sheet I found online about range of numbers that an diamond needs to fall into.
Total depth between 59 – 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 – 57%
Crown angle between 34.3 – 34.9 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 – 40.9 degrees
Girdle thickness between thin to medium, faceted (bruted isn't bad, but faceted would be better)
Culet size: none

Thanks!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
You are getting a Tiffany ring?

The specs are you are looking at are very limited and you've got them copied incorrect or they were just posted incorrectly. It's total DEPTH not diameter, diameter isn't part of the specs. And most of those Tiffany stones you posted are over deep. I would not go for any of them, except maybe the first one, and that's with an idealscope only.

I've revised them for you below so they are correct.
Total depth between: 60-62.4
Table less than: 60
Crown angle between 34.6 – 35 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 – 40.9 degrees
Girdle thickness between thin to medium, faceted (bruted isn't bad, but faceted would be better)
Culet size: none

Here is the bare minimum you need to know about round diamonds okay? Read, study links.

Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.9 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you.

ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants, have your vendor check the diamond for this. VS1 will always be eyeclean, but they do cost more and an eyeclean SI1 and a VS1 will look the same to the unaided eye.
 

xzhao

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
5
Gypsy, thank you so much for all the information you've shared with me. I will study them carefully.

Yes, you were correct, I copied the spec name incorrectly:) And I corrected them already. The first diamond got a AGS 1 as I checked from http://www.jewellerycatalogue.co.uk/diamonds/ags_detail.php.. It got a grade "1" in Average Table Diameter % with others got "0" grades.

I prefer the first ring more, because it is the only one that met the cheat sheet numbers, and my only concern is the Pavilion Angle seems a little beyond acceptable pavilion angles.

And Tiffany doesn't have idealscope, so I am thinking to get one myself. They do have return policy though.
 

xzhao

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
5
Anyone know where to get an ideal scope? I searched on Amazon and Google but nothing found. Should I just search for "idealscope"?
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
xzhao|1462593931|4028433 said:
Anyone know where to get an ideal scope? I searched on Amazon and Google but nothing found. Should I just search for "idealscope"?
By getting an IdealScope, they mean to get an IdealScope picture taken. The jeweler may be able to provide one, but a lot of jewelers do not have this ability. The IdealScope reveals the light return behavior of the diamond. Many people post their IdealScope or ASET pictures here and the experts comment on whether it is good or not.

Technically, you can buy one yourself at:
http://ideal-scope.com/shop/?product_order=date&product_sort=asc

You can bring it to the store and look at the diamond through it, but that means you need to know what you are looking at.

Are you looking only at Tiffany's diamonds?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
If you are shopping at Tiffany you should buy one (It's under 30 bucks) and take it with you. Or, as you said, you can buy the ring and and make sure you return it within the return period if it has too much leakage.

They are very easy to use.
 

xzhao

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
5
Thanks for your reply, ghostm42.
Yes, Currently I am only looking for a Tiffany E-ring.
My concern is I thought the ASET image and ideal image can be only seen with a diamond taken from the ring? The ring I got from Tiffany had a setting with it. How can I see the ASET image then? Did I get something wrong? :angel:
 

xzhao

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
5
I saw the link provided by ghostm42. There were so many different scopes, which one was the right one for me?

And can I see the ASET image or ideal image with the setting? I don't have to take the diamond off from the ring right?

Sorry I have so many questions and Thanks so much for your reply. :)
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
xzhao|1462670872|4028821 said:
I saw the link provided by ghostm42. There were so many different scopes, which one was the right one for me?

And can I see the ASET image or ideal image with the setting? I don't have to take the diamond off from the ring right?

Sorry I have so many questions and Thanks so much for your reply. :)
I've never used one of these myself. I always asked the seller to get me the picture.

From what I understand, you can still use these scopes if the diamond is already in a setting, but it might be a bit more difficult to get it properly aligned since you can't lay the diamond down on the Ideal Light. I'll let the experts who have experience comment on it.

The cheapest option is the $25 Beginner scope:
http://ideal-scope.com/product/beginner-scope/
The $60 Expert version offers more magnification:
http://ideal-scope.com/product/expert-scope/

The ASET scope is usually used for fancy cut diamonds (other than round), but there seems to be some debate. Some people believe ASET is superior to Ideal Scope even for rounds. The ASET image is a bit harder to interpret. You can get the scope for $50.
http://ideal-scope.com/product/aset-scope/
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Just get the beginner scope you don't need anything else.
 

piano

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
100
It seems like you guys/gals keep suggesting buying the product w/o really reading and understand what OP concerns.
Is there an instruction how to use it w/o having the stone removed from the setting? or it must?
Nobody wants to buy anything that they don't know how to use it.

@OP, I honestly don't know. I don't have one so I can't tell you whether you have to remove the stone or not.
In the case, you decide to buy one, make sure you know how to read the image.
 

ghostm42

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
56
piano|1462714576|4028953 said:
It seems like you guys/gals keep suggesting buying the product w/o really reading and understand what OP concerns.
Is there an instruction how to use it w/o having the stone removed from the setting? or it must?
Nobody wants to buy anything that they don't know how to use it.
It was only recommended that the OP get an IS image (from the seller). OP then asked where to buy the device. As I said when I posted the link to the scopes, I've never used one and defer to the experts. I also pointed out that I believe it's possible to use the scopes on a diamond that's already in a setting, but it will be harder to position properly. Gypsy indicates it's very easy to use, so I assume it means it's possible on a completed ring.

From what I understand about how it works, the bottom of the scopes should stop by the girdle of the diamond and also be level with it. That's harder to pull off free-handing the scope. But again, I have no experience, so I defer to the experts.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
You can use them on set stones. Just use a flashlight to get light into the stone. May take a little juggling but it's relatively easy, seriously. It will take you 10 minute max to figure it out. Not rocket science.
 
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