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can i pull this off

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giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
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May 1, 2003
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37
will 25k be enough to get a 2.5 carat round solitaire that is abosultely sparkly and stunning?

i notice a thread where someone mentioned that 18k could get a fabulous 1.8 or 1.9....so i am curious what i can expect for 25k. i love how 2.5 looks on my finger- but i am not willing to sacrifice fire and brilliance for size...should i stretch my budget? should i go down a little in size...or will i be just fine?

please please please can an expert let me know their opinion?? thanks~!
 

AnnaMagdalena

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
70
Hi Giftgoddess,
Not an expert, but I did a quick search and here's what I found. They all make me salivate! I guess it depends on what standards you have for clarity and color grades, but it is possible to get a beautifully cut 2.5 or a little under, for your budget.

Nice Ice:
2.35 G VS1
HCA 1.1-EX ex-ex-ex-ex
GIA, AGS 0
$23335

Superbcert:
Item 1796
H&A
2.48-Carat, E Color SI1 clarity SuperbCertTM Round diamond, GIA grading report.
Price: $24,777.68

GoodOldGold:
2.372ct H VS2
H&A
bank wire ~ $22,000
credit card ~ $22,506
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
thank you!

now- a second question. i understand that tiffanys has extremely expensive lighting in their stores. does that account for why every single diamond in there has rainbows flying out of it from every angle...and when i go an independent dealer- and look at what are supposedly top quality stones- they are gorgeous as well, but i don't necessarly see the rainbows flying the way i do at tiffanys. does anyone out there know what i mean?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Everybody's idea of 'top quality' is different...so it stands to reason that B&M stores have their own ideas as well. Jewelry store lighting DOES play a huge part in things...there is a poster who just returned her ring back to a jeweler because when she got it home, it didn't look the same. Blame the lighting.

I think you posted a thread last week where you asked about what your $25k will get you...people posted some responses there as well. You can also run a search yourself on the Pricescope search engine to find out what your $$ will get you. Use the 'cut quality' search (link on the homepage) to look at only excellent HCA performers.

Good luck.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
You should be able to get a VERY nice 2.5ct diamond or a beautiful 2ct stone... It's up to you. I'd go with a h+a stone... Clarity maybe VS 2... SI's aren't generally eye clean in such big sizes. Color F-I, it depends on you... Do you care for very very faint yellow or you want a colorless stone?
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
i really do want a colorless stone...D, E, F...but from what i understand, some G's can be a fabulous bargain- and as long as i can't see the yellow, i am not hung up on the actual letter grading.

i really do love how a 2.5 looks on my finger- i don't want to go much lower than that size...and i could stretch my budget an extra 1 or 2k....

i was just curious about the "trick lighting". i want to know what my stone will look like "in general"...NOT in the absolute best, most expensive lighting, ya know? so i am feeling like the tiffany stones only look as fabulous as they do b/c of lighting, but in a "regular" store- they would look like the other stones i have looked at that are supposedly of the same cut, color and clarity. they are still stunning- but the rainbows at tiffanys are out of control.
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
what i meant to ask in my last post is-
since we all know that the lighting at tiffanys is very "special"...is it unfair to compare diamonds i see in "regular light" (such as an independent dimaond dealer) to the diamonds i see in tiffanys- b/c they will NEVER compare? but at the same time- the diamonds may actually be of equal quality? am i making sense? thanks everyone. you are such a help!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
While shopping (either at regular B&M or Tiffany) ask to take the stone outside into natural lighting. Not all stores will let you, Tiffany might with one of the burly security guards attached to you...but who knows. That is the best way to tell. Also if you work with a great B&M, ask to see the stone under candlelight, in fluor lights, all sorts of different lighting. If they balk..maybe you don't want to work with them. You DO want to see how the stone will perform in real life.

I have to say also that my stone is a G and it faces up very white. I love the color and it allowed us to get VS clarity though that was not a dealbreaker...we just got lucky.

Also--there are so many lighting situations where your stone will look different. In direct sunlight, my stone looks blue and quite sparkly inside, but not out. Though I have read that direct sun is not the best way to view a stone. Indirect bright light is great. Indirect shade. Candlelight. Bathroom lighting. Streetlights are great too. Low-lighting as in restaurant lighting is always amazing. So don't get too hung up on the lighting in the store or not...if you get a WELL CUT stone, it will dazzle you in many surroundings. It's all about the cut!!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
That 2.35 G/VS 1 from niceice.com may be calling you
.
I suggest you to look at a F/G color VS clairty stone... Try to stay slightly under the 2.5ct mark... You'll save some money and by doing that you could get a better stone!!!
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
yes- i am really hoping i can find something close to 2.5...D,E,F or maybe G....and VS2 or better. i know that some SI are eye clean, and can be a great bargain...i guess i'll just play it by ear...but i know i feel more comfortable with VS than SI.

do you think there is a distinctly visible difference in size between 2.5 and 2.35? i prob need to see for myself in person, right?
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
yes- i am really hoping i can find something close to 2.5...D,E,F or maybe G....and VS2 or better. i know that some SI are eye clean, and can be a great bargain...i guess i'll just play it by ear...but i know i feel more comfortable with VS than SI.

do you think there is a distinctly visible difference in size between 2.5 and 2.35? i prob need to see for myself in person, right?
 

Spyder

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2003
Messages
50
----------------
On 5/12/2003 1:20:56 PM Mara wrote:

In direct sunlight, my stone looks blue
The blue comes from reflecting the blue sky. Stand under a green tree and it will look greenish.

The diamond will tend to reflect whatever colors are in the environment. Hold it up next to something red and you will see alot of red hue in the stone.

Indoor incandescent lighting tends to be a warm yellowish golden color. This will make most diamonds look somewhat yellowish/amber indoors in incandescent lighting.
 

Love Street

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
418
----------------
On 5/12/2003 1:12:42 PM giftgoddess wrote:

so i am feeling like the tiffany stones only look as fabulous as they do b/c of lighting, but in a "regular" store- they would look like the other stones i have looked at that are supposedly of the same cut, color and clarity. they are still stunning- but the rainbows at tiffanys are out of control.
----------------
I got my ring at T & Co., and it DOES have so many rainbows and sparkles! I was very suspicious of their store lighting, so I kept covering the diamond with my hand and my shirt to see what it would reeally look like... Funnily enough, it has crazy rainbows in my apt's cheap bathroom lighting too! (And in my work's office lighting)But I think I got lucky with my diamonds polish/symmetry being ex/ex.

But sometimes I wonder though if it's more to the "fiery" side of the ideal spectrum, as opposed to the "brilliant" side... I'm going to take it to an independent apprasier to see what they can tell me about angles - maybe some Tiffany's diamonds have steeper crown angles??
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
My bathroom lighting is awesome on my ring and its just 4 regular white lightbulbs. Xmas lights are amazing too.

Speaking of fiery vs brilliant...you do notice a difference I think. My stone is a BIC and it shows way more white and bright sparkles than color unless I am in low-lighting or the bathroom or the gym etc. But my coworker has a stone which I *think* is a FIC because it looks like there are rainbows inside the stone and little fires all the time..but it does not appear really white like mine does. Kind of interesting. She has no specs on her stone and I'd probably sound like a freak if I asked, but it was something I noticed the other day and my stone looks 100% different than hers in terms of general look. My stone always looks white and scintillating (blacks mixed with the whites inside the stone) in regular office and indirect lighting, while hers looks like fires are inside with the scintillation (blacks mixed with yellowish and colored fires).

Definitely a preference thing! I like the white look personally but sometimes think it'd be nice to have the fire too. I get the fire in low lighting/restaurant lighting, in streetlights, bathroom and sometimes at work.
 

Final Cut

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
85
Hey gift ... good to see you did not go for that Tiffany after all...

I bought an absolutely incredible 2.42 HVS2 from Duane at ADOL with a 1A cut - I got it last week and wow - just blows me away every time I look at it - 1.2 on the HCA - cost $16.5k!! The issue is more one of availability when you get into those sizes...

Here is what I would do.

go to pricestats at the top - choose 'by carat' 2-2.99

It will present you with some tables, go to the 1A table and click on the hvs2 (maybe gvs2 or gvs1 if you prefer) - then you will see a list of stones. Now sort by price/carat and go down the list until you find one that suits you.

THIS is not fool proof, but it worked for me. It is the quickest way to get the cut that you want and vary the other parameters ....

You will find that what you seek is very possible (tip - I personally stuck to the shallower GIA only because I was looking for a true HVS2 with a good spread).

Just my 2c !

Good luck - it is really worth it when you find the one you want !

The guys and gals here at PScope really makes this market accessible for normal consumers - thanks to Cut Nut, Rich, Dave and everyone else who helps out here !!!!
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 5/12/2003 1:56:12 PM giftgoddess wrote:

do you think there is a distinctly visible difference in size between 2.5 and 2.35? i prob need to see for myself in person, right?
----------------
In stones this size, you need to pay attention to MM measurement. Deeper stones w/ larger girdles are going to have less spread. So, the 2.35 may have close to the same MM's as the 2.5.

A G/VS stone is safe. Originally that is what I focused on. Instead, I ended up w/ a very pretty I/SI stone - go figure. As far as the clarity, that's personal. Do you mind seeing something when you examine the stone very closely? Or do you find this to be charming? While Giangi is correct, eye clean in a stone this large is tough; but, how close does one examine the stone? Face up, a well cut stone should be pretty clean. Face down, more than likely you will see flaws in an SI stone this size.

Good luck.
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
hmm- so is what you are saying that some stones are cut to produce rainbows...while others cuts will produce a "whiter" sparkle? i feel like i personally prefer the rainbows...and that's what i saw in all the tiffanys diamonds. is there a more specific reason for this that i can discuss with the person i ultimately buy my diamond from? i deifnitely want the rainbows!

also- a 2.42 HVS2 for $16.5!! that is unbelieveable!! how is that even possible? all the quotes i have gotten have been in the 20k range..and closer to 25k than to 20k.
 

AnnaMagdalena

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
70
Yes, some proportions of cut can produce more colored light and other proportions produce more white light. You can use tools like HCA and BrillianceScope to try and predict how much colored light your stone will return. While both of those tools have their critics and detractors, I am under the impression that they do have value, especially used together. There are a few vendors that list the specs of both for each stone. And if you go to the GemEx B-Scope site, you may be able to find a store nearby that has a B-scope.

My stone had a B-Scope Very High 3 rating on colored light, with VH 2 on white light and VH 1 on scintillation. Interestingly, the HCA varied a little: Ex on light return, V. Good on Scint. and Fire. In real visual performance, it does make a lot of rainbows. It depends a lot on what kind of lighting I'm in though: typical restaurant lighting creates tons of colored light, direct daylight is blinding with chunks of color, indirect daylight creates a very white look, and so on.

Don't be too swayed by that store lighting. It's very powerful--the first time I saw really really sparkly diamonds was in a store dealing Lazare diamonds for about $15000 for a fancy set 1 c. solitaire. I thought, maybe I should buy a Lazare diamond there. Thank goodness I found this site.

If you live with a stone every day, you will see it in all sorts of lighting. A Tiffany & Co. stone will not look like that in every kind of lighting. Using research and a trusted vendor and appraiser, you can get a stone absolutely as fiery as a Tiff. one, a stone that will make just as many rainbows or more, given some light to refract.

Sorry for rambling. Good luck--there are lots of fiery diamonds out there and I hope you find one you love!
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
Thank you thank you!

you make me relax, and breathe a sign of relief when you say things like that. i don't want to sound completely ridiculous when i speak to the diamond dealer. i could have sworn that i have noticed rainbows vs. white sparkle- but now i feel confident that i was not being crazy.

i guess i am nervous b/c even though i am doing tons and tons of research- in the end it is my bfriend who will show up at the dealer, and pick out the stone. i want it to be perfect (for the amount of money we are spending- it better be!)..and there are just SO many options out there- i just want to give my bfriend a good idea of what i love before he makes the final decision, ya know? white vs rainbow is my latest obsession!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
FIC=Fiery Ideal Cut--rainbows inside
BIC=Brilliant Ideal Cut--whiter looking
TIC=Tolowsky Ideal Cut--commonly referred to as having the best of both worlds of BIC and FIC

If you go onto www.goodoldgold.com, and check out some of the stones for sale. You will see BrillianceScope results at the bottom of the product pages for each stone. View a couple, and you will get a feel for what we are talking about.

White Light bar represents the white brilliance of the stone, so a stone with a very high bar here would have whiter look to the stone.
Fire bar represents what you would consider the rainbows inside the stone, a stone with a very high bar here would have more fire inside the stone.
Scintillation bar is always up for discussion but the general idea is that it is the blacks mixed with the white light and fire to create the 'sparks' that work against white and color to give you an idea of 'depths' of the stone. (see I told you it was hard to describe).

Surf around the GOG site a bit and look at some Bcscope's, as you look at the bars and the animations, you will start to get an idea of the patterns.

If you see:

-a very high white light bar, a med/low high fire bar and a high scint bar, this means this stone will most likely face up very white and brilliant to your eyes, with less of the fire/rainbows inside the stone.
-a med/low high white light bar, a very high fire bar, and a high scint bar, this means the stone will most likely face up very colorful to your eyes, with the rainbows inside and important to note, the stone will not appear that white to your eyes. this could be a concern IF you are buying an I or J colored stone or similar, as the stone has more color inside from the fiery cut.
-a high white light bar, a high fire bar, a high scint bar (or vh for all), this stone will face up as similar to a tolowsky ideal cut, with a balance of both fire and white light, returning white to you in certain situations, and color in others. For someone who doesn't have a preference on either fire or white light, this is the best of both worlds...the most 'balanced' of the stones.
-if you have any of the above but the scint bar is lower, it means that while you will see color OR white brilliance, you will not see as many black 'sparks' that work WITH the fire or brilliance to return flashes to your eyes

That is how I view it. Its just my two cents...but if you see a stone that is like #1 and compare it to a stone that you find that is more like #2, you WILL see a difference in the Brilliancescope animation image. That image is a simulation of what the stone will look like to your eye in person.

Hope that little educational bit helps.
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
are you kidding me?! that helps SOOO much!! this is soexciting to me to know there is an actual "term" for diamonds with rainbows vs. white. i am going to check out the site, and everything you just posted about. thanks again everyone!!!!!
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
are you kidding me?! that helps SOOO much!! this is so exciting to me to know there is an actual "term" for diamonds with rainbows vs. white. i am going to check out the site, and everything you just posted about. thanks again everyone!!!!!
 

giftgoddess

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
37
ok- so i checked out the site.

there is a 2.372 H VS2 that has extremely high colored light- fairly high white light, and farily high scint. in your opinion- would this appear very white (as opposed to faint yellow)..but also have the rainbows? i thought this was the combo i was looking for- just curious if you can second that. i realize i would need to SEE the diamond to be sure...but in general, would this be the combo you would suggest? thanks.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Your best bet would be to email Jonathan/Rhino at GOG and ask him your question. Since he has the stone there in his presence, he should be able to give you his opinion of whether the stone looks more rainbow/fiery and if it faces up a white H.

Don't want to give the impression that a fiery stone makes the stone itself look yellow or anything, but from the more fiery stones I have seen, because they are lower on the white light scale, they appear more 'colorful' inside from the rainbows AND a hint of other colors. So if you like that look, thats the stone for you. If you like more of a white stone look, BIC is more along your lines. Some people (many!) can't choose or don't have a preference, so they go for the basic excellently cut stones with H/VH across the boards that will just look amazing, regardless.

But it sounds like that may be the combo you will like if you like the heavy internal rainbows.
 

Final Cut

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
85
Gift...

I spent quite a long time shopping (3 weeks) and noticed that H&A is kind of a brand, which is more expensive than a great AGA 1A cut diamond (to the tune of 20-30% for some branded H&A). The extra money may be well spent or not depending on your prefs - I was lucky (and was helped along quite a lot by some of the vendors here selling the H&A in terms of understanding the stones and so on).

In my humble opinion, in this business, nothing is free - people here are really nice (and this forum is great) - buuuuut the vendors obviously have some financial interest in giving you this information..... ultimately I still think that you can find a great H&A unbranded stone with lots of fire/brill without necessarily buying from the 'h&a' category and vendor, but that is my personal opinion.

Up to you - btw - I am not trying to offend everyone here - just adding my personal perspective !
Good Luck!!

FC
 
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