Calling The Experts....When is a Feather an Issue?

[Lorelei]

Recently we have had some consumer concern over feathers and potential durability issues, so in order to address those concerns I wanted to start a thread and get input from the experts and appraisers please, chiefly -

Does anyone have any actual data about how many diamonds with feathers break, compared to diamonds without feathers?

What are the chances of a feather " growing" or enlarging/ getting damaged during normal wear?

Does anyone have any data about how many prong set diamonds with feathers break compared to those which are bezel set?

How concerned should the consumer be when buying a diamond with a feather, especially in SI grades? I know there won't be any hard or fast answers for this question particularly as even some stones with feathers of higher clarity grades have from what I understand been rejected by some professionals, however any input the experts can offer would be much appreciated.

 

[Ellen]

For me, feathers are an issue when the pointy end sticks out of the pillow and I get stuck.

Sorry, just couldn''t resist. Carry on!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/2/2009 12:01:49 PM
Author: Ellen
For me, feathers are an issue when the pointy end sticks out of the pillow and I get stuck.

Sorry, just couldn''t resist. Carry on!

 

[kenny]

I have no actual data, just my reasoning powers that tell me that something cracked is weaker than something that is not.

That said, even an informed person may find the risk of a cracked diamond to be acceptable.

Just be informed and not deceived by the industry's use of term feather for a crack.

I don't think feathers, or a particular feather, will ever be 100% unsafe or 100% safe per expert X.
It is a comfort zone thing.
If a lab or an expert can make you feel comfortable about buying a particular diamond with a feather so be it.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/2/2009 12:20:19 PM
Author: kenny
I have no actual data, just my reasoning powers that tell me that something cracked is weaker than something that is not.

That said, even an informed person may find the risk of a cracked diamond to be acceptable.

Just be informed and not deceived by the industry's use of term feather for a crack.

I don't think feathers, or a particular feather, will ever be 100% unsafe or 100% safe per expert X.
It is a comfort zone thing.
If a lab or an expert can make you feel comfortable about buying a particular diamond with a feather so be it.

I think it will be useful to hear from the appraisers and other experts whether in their experience they find feathers to be particularly problematic - if so what to watch out for etc - I know that would be valuable to me to hear what they have to say - and come to that ANY diamond could crack, break or chip - my query is will a feather make a diamond far more prone to doing so.

 

[oldminer]

One should keep in mind the harsh treatment a diamond goes through to become a faceted gemstone. After a diamond has been cut, it has proved itself to be pretty durable compared to many of the hazards when one wears it in a finished piece of jewelry. Still, diamond can be fractured or cleaved by accident, but it won''t be a spontaneous breakage under any normal circumstances.

A feather, especially any sort of inclusion which opens on the surface is a weaker area of the diamond. If it is going to break, chip or cleave, such a weakened area is a potentially higher risk zone. In 40+ years, I have seen just a few diamonds which really seemed doomed to be readily broken in use and far fewer which actually broke. Many more diamond become chipped slightly around the girlde and/or abraded on the crown from years of harsh wear and improper storage rubbing other diamonds in moving jewelry cases. Few really suffer big, important damage in use.
Insurance covers such drastic loss anyway for nearly all such major losses. Such major losses are relatively rare.

If a consumer can avoid a diamond with inclusions which are open on the crown, especially those open on the table, they are doing the right thing. Many imperfect diamonds are inherently flawed with open blemishes. It is just part of the game at the low end.

A tiny feather, open or not, in a VS1 or VS2 is unlikely to evre be the reason for a future problem. I have seen no evidence of such a problem ever. Usually diamonds which fall apart had good reason to be weak due to thinness, shape, or obvious flaws which always were rather prominent.

 

[Lorelei]

Thats a great post and explanation, thank you David!

 

[30yearsofdiamonds]

I have been reading the posts on feathers for the past couple of weeks. I am surprised, but I probably shouldn''t be, that there is so much concern about this inclusion. I feel the name and the fact that I keep seeing the word crack associated with it, and although that may be correct, it is not exactly a term that does the inclusion any justice. At 100 power a crack will not be discernable in the majority of feathers.

Feathers rarely extend after a daimond is set. The great thing is they are usually around the outside and have a good chance of not reflecting. They are almost always white, and sometimes slightly transparent.

And they almost always touch the surface,99+% sure on this.

I feel from what I am reading consumers are getting the wrong impression with regard to feathers and passing up great diamonds.

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 10/2/2009 1:03:56 PM
Author: oldminer
One should keep in mind the harsh treatment a diamond goes through to become a faceted gemstone. After a diamond has been cut, it has proved itself to be pretty durable compared to many of the hazards when one wears it in a finished piece of jewelry. Still, diamond can be fractured or cleaved by accident, but it won''t be a spontaneous breakage under any normal circumstances.

A feather, especially any sort of inclusion which opens on the surface is a weaker area of the diamond. If it is going to break, chip or cleave, such a weakened area is a potentially higher risk zone. In 40+ years, I have seen just a few diamonds which really seemed doomed to be readily broken in use and far fewer which actually broke. Many more diamond become chipped slightly around the girlde and/or abraded on the crown from years of harsh wear and improper storage rubbing other diamonds in moving jewelry cases. Few really suffer big, important damage in use.
Insurance covers such drastic loss anyway for nearly all such major losses. Such major losses are relatively rare.

If a consumer can avoid a diamond with inclusions which are open on the crown, especially those open on the table, they are doing the right thing. Many imperfect diamonds are inherently flawed with open blemishes. It is just part of the game at the low end.

A tiny feather, open or not, in a VS1 or VS2 is unlikely to evre be the reason for a future problem. I have seen no evidence of such a problem ever. Usually diamonds which fall apart had good reason to be weak due to thinness, shape, or obvious flaws which always were rather prominent.

What about SI grades?
And what about people like me (klutz), who accidently bang their rings all the time. Would it still be safe to get an SI stone when the grade maker is a feather?

 

[30yearsofdiamonds]

Yes it is safe.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/2/2009 1:03:56 PM
Author: oldminer
One should keep in mind the harsh treatment a diamond goes through to become a faceted gemstone. After a diamond has been cut, it has proved itself to be pretty durable compared to many of the hazards when one wears it in a finished piece of jewelry. Still, diamond can be fractured or cleaved by accident, but it won''t be a spontaneous breakage under any normal circumstances.

A feather, especially any sort of inclusion which opens on the surface is a weaker area of the diamond. If it is going to break, chip or cleave, such a weakened area is a potentially higher risk zone. In 40+ years, I have seen just a few diamonds which really seemed doomed to be readily broken in use and far fewer which actually broke. Many more diamond become chipped slightly around the girlde and/or abraded on the crown from years of harsh wear and improper storage rubbing other diamonds in moving jewelry cases. Few really suffer big, important damage in use.
Insurance covers such drastic loss anyway for nearly all such major losses. Such major losses are relatively rare.

If a consumer can avoid a diamond with inclusions which are open on the crown, especially those open on the table, they are doing the right thing. Many imperfect diamonds are inherently flawed with open blemishes. It is just part of the game at the low end.

A tiny feather, open or not, in a VS1 or VS2 is unlikely to evre be the reason for a future problem. I have seen no evidence of such a problem ever. Usually diamonds which fall apart had good reason to be weak due to thinness, shape, or obvious flaws which always were rather prominent.

Like Dave (who I agree with) I have several more years experiance than young "30 years of diamond" (who I agree with), and I have re appraised many diamonds several times - when I see damage, and I do, it is almost always associated with girdle chips - and 90% of those chips are not seemingly related to inclusions. The most likley cause of chipping is thin girdles with low crown angles (generally they go together).

I even have a belief that many diamonds with inclusions are actually less likely to chip near the inclusions. Can''t prove it though.

However I do avoid diamonds with crown opens - especially those that run across table crown facet junctions (even more so than table only opens Dave).

So it seems that feathers or cracks are not realy a big issue.
Dave you have seen many more very low clarity stones than most - does your opinion hold down around I2-I3?

Finally I know for a fact that Argyle champagne (and pink''s) are more easily broken (the Company Sec of Ashton who found Argyle did an experiment to smash many small diamonds from several mines - with a hammer and anvil) and I have seen more bits drop out of these Aussie colored diamonds than all the colorless diamonds of which I have seen may more stable stones.
(I guess that means we Aussies can''t take a lot of stress before we crumble)

 

[diagem]

Date: 10/2/2009 7:21:37 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 10/2/2009 1:03:56 PM
Author: oldminer
One should keep in mind the harsh treatment a diamond goes through to become a faceted gemstone. After a diamond has been cut, it has proved itself to be pretty durable compared to many of the hazards when one wears it in a finished piece of jewelry. Still, diamond can be fractured or cleaved by accident, but it won''t be a spontaneous breakage under any normal circumstances.

A feather, especially any sort of inclusion which opens on the surface is a weaker area of the diamond. If it is going to break, chip or cleave, such a weakened area is a potentially higher risk zone. In 40+ years, I have seen just a few diamonds which really seemed doomed to be readily broken in use and far fewer which actually broke. Many more diamond become chipped slightly around the girlde and/or abraded on the crown from years of harsh wear and improper storage rubbing other diamonds in moving jewelry cases. Few really suffer big, important damage in use.
Insurance covers such drastic loss anyway for nearly all such major losses. Such major losses are relatively rare.

If a consumer can avoid a diamond with inclusions which are open on the crown, especially those open on the table, they are doing the right thing. Many imperfect diamonds are inherently flawed with open blemishes. It is just part of the game at the low end.

A tiny feather, open or not, in a VS1 or VS2 is unlikely to evre be the reason for a future problem. I have seen no evidence of such a problem ever. Usually diamonds which fall apart had good reason to be weak due to thinness, shape, or obvious flaws which always were rather prominent.

Like Dave (who I agree with) I have several more years experiance than young ''30 years of diamond'' (who I agree with), and I have re appraised many diamonds several times - when I see damage, and I do, it is almost always associated with girdle chips - and 90% of those chips are not seemingly related to inclusions. The most likley cause of chipping is thin girdles with low crown angles (generally they go together).

I even have a belief that many diamonds with inclusions are actually less likely to chip near the inclusions. Can''t prove it though.

However I do avoid diamonds with crown opens - especially those that run across table crown facet junctions (even more so than table only opens Dave).

So it seems that feathers or cracks are not realy a big issue.
Dave you have seen many more very low clarity stones than most - does your opinion hold down around I2-I3?

Finally I know for a fact that Argyle champagne (and pink''s) are more easily broken (the Company Sec of Ashton who found Argyle did an experiment to smash many small diamonds from several mines - with a hammer and anvil) and I have seen more bits drop out of these Aussie colored diamonds than all the colorless diamonds of which I have seen may more stable stones.
(I guess that means we Aussies can''t take a lot of stress before we crumble)

I agree with all here on their opinion regarding feathers and durability issues..., a rough Diamond goes through a rough cutting process prior to becoming a beautiful faceted Diamond. But more importantly a rough Diamond lives through extreme harsh environments until he is found in the ground...
I believe durability is more of an issue after man handles it..., like said above..., the durability issues are usually on the polished parts of the Diamond (eg girdle chips and abraded crown/table.

Cutters know (based on experience) that brown shades are more fragile vs others..., most cutter wont risk sawing a significant size brown Diamond as chances of breakage are pretty darn high unfortunately..., I dont think it has something to do with provenance..., but do think most brown material are more prone to damages because they carry a lot of natural stress which one identifies in a polariscope... (am I using the right terminology?)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/2/2009 8:27:57 PM
Author: DiaGem
I agree with all here on their opinion regarding feathers and durability issues..., a rough Diamond goes through a rough cutting process prior to becoming a beautiful faceted Diamond. But more importantly a rough Diamond lives through extreme harsh environments until he is found in the ground...
I believe durability is more of an issue after man handles it..., like said above..., the durability issues are usually on the polished parts of the Diamond (eg girdle chips and abraded crown/table.

Cutters know (based on experience) that brown shades are more fragile vs others..., most cutter wont risk sawing a significant size brown Diamond as chances of breakage are pretty darn high unfortunately..., I dont think it has something to do with provenance..., but do think most brown material are more prone to damages because they carry a lot of natural stress which one identifies in a polariscope... (am I using the right terminology?)

yes DG - the problem with Argyle browns is they are often very prue banded stones with often micro slippage at a molecular level and this causes the graining colors you would be familiar with (in brown and pink).
So the fragile nature is not always associated with inclusions at all in these stones - although when there have been surface reaching gletz I am far more likely to see damage as in the 2/3rds carat clients fine pink that was a very large insurance claim recently.
I am also aware of a big case where a consumer is or was trying to sue a jeweller for a pink diamond that was lost because of a setting failure - in fact I believe the diamond broke in two.

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks to 30years, Garry and DiaGem for their great posts and opinions, thats exactly the type of info I was hoping for and will be very useful to show to consumers with feather concerns.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/3/2009 4:01:10 AM
Author: Lorelei
Thanks to 30years, Garry and DiaGem for their great posts and opinions, thats exactly the type of info I was hoping for and will be very useful to show to consumers with feather concerns.

Do you think this should be an article or summary like the eye clean project Coati has just done / begun?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/3/2009 7:22:18 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 10/3/2009 4:01:10 AM
Author: Lorelei
Thanks to 30years, Garry and DiaGem for their great posts and opinions, thats exactly the type of info I was hoping for and will be very useful to show to consumers with feather concerns.

Do you think this should be an article or summary like the eye clean project Coati has just done / begun?

As this issue comes up regularly I think it would be an excellent subject for an article/ summary Garry, there seems to be some consumer doubt and confusion on this matter quite often, so an article we can use to help would be very useful.

 

[Tuckins1]

Just want to say that I have an SI1 stone, which has a tiny feather in it. I have dropped my ring, banged it around, even wore it to the gun range, and the feather has not grown/changed. I also have a teeny indented natural on the surface of the stone, and it has not changed either. Maybe my diamond is like the "hulk" of diamonds, but I have really abused it, and it has held up perfectly!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/3/2009 9:26:22 AM
Author: Tuckins1
Just want to say that I have an SI1 stone, which has a tiny feather in it. I have dropped my ring, banged it around, even wore it to the gun range, and the feather has not grown/changed. I also have a teeny indented natural on the surface of the stone, and it has not changed either. Maybe my diamond is like the ''hulk'' of diamonds, but I have really abused it, and it has held up perfectly!

Thats good to know, thank you Tuckies!

 

[kenny]

Garry, thanks for the info on colored diamonds.

So would putting an Argyle pink into a tension setting be a mistake?

I believe competent jewelers won't tension set a diamond below a certain clarity grade, or want to see the inclusion plot.
But if the weakness is related to graining (common in Argyle pinks) it may be unwise to tension set even a high-clarity Argyle pink.

Argyle pinks are rare so there is a chance Boon, Gelin Abaci and Steve Kretchmer have not had the chance to encounter this issue very often and develop a policy to decline setting them.

Which way is the diamond weaker, with the graining planes parallel to the tension setting ring's gap, or perpendicular to the gap?

 

[Tuckins1]

Date: 10/3/2009 9:28:23 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/3/2009 9:26:22 AM

Author: Tuckins1

Just want to say that I have an SI1 stone, which has a tiny feather in it. I have dropped my ring, banged it around, even wore it to the gun range, and the feather has not grown/changed. I also have a teeny indented natural on the surface of the stone, and it has not changed either. Maybe my diamond is like the ''hulk'' of diamonds, but I have really abused it, and it has held up perfectly!

Thats good to know, thank you Tuckies!

Hey Lorelei... Love the new avatar!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/3/2009 12:32:11 PM
Author: Tuckins1

Date: 10/3/2009 9:28:23 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 10/3/2009 9:26:22 AM

Author: Tuckins1

Just want to say that I have an SI1 stone, which has a tiny feather in it. I have dropped my ring, banged it around, even wore it to the gun range, and the feather has not grown/changed. I also have a teeny indented natural on the surface of the stone, and it has not changed either. Maybe my diamond is like the ''hulk'' of diamonds, but I have really abused it, and it has held up perfectly!

Thats good to know, thank you Tuckies!

Hey Lorelei... Love the new avatar!

Hehehe!!! Thanks Tuckies!!!

 

[LGK]

I''m no expert but I''m gonna toss my two cents in anyway

My 1.22 ct OEC is around about 100 years old, give or take a decade. It''s an EGL graded SI1. It has basically one inclusion you can see with a loupe- a feather. It starts right at the edge of the very thin girdle. As a result I made sure it was in a setting that surrounded it with some metal to protect it from my klutziness, and insured it. But, it has survived just fine for a long time.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/3/2009 2:31:03 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
I''m no expert but I''m gonna toss my two cents in anyway

My 1.22 ct OEC is around about 100 years old, give or take a decade. It''s an EGL graded SI1. It has basically one inclusion you can see with a loupe- a feather. It starts right at the edge of the very thin girdle. As a result I made sure it was in a setting that surrounded it with some metal to protect it from my klutziness, and insured it. But, it has survived just fine for a long time.

Appreciate your opinion LGK, I should have also said consumers with feathered diamonds were also welcome to chime in on how pleased they are with their diamonds, so consumers with feathers - please do!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/3/2009 11:15:41 AM
Author: kenny
Garry, thanks for the info on colored diamonds.

So would putting an Argyle pink into a tension setting be a mistake?

I believe competent jewelers won''t tension set a diamond below a certain clarity grade, or want to see the inclusion plot.
But if the weakness is related to graining (common in Argyle pinks) it may be unwise to tension set even a high-clarity Argyle pink.

Argyle pinks are rare so there is a chance Boon, Gelin Abaci and Steve Kretchmer have not had the chance to encounter this issue very often and develop a policy to decline setting them.

Which way is the diamond weaker, with the graining planes parallel to the tension setting ring''s gap, or perpendicular to the gap?

I think all you wrote is as good an answer as I can give Kenny

 

[chictomato]

Date: 10/2/2009 8:27:57 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 10/2/2009 7:21:37 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 10/2/2009 1:03:56 PM
Author: oldminer
One should keep in mind the harsh treatment a diamond goes through to become a faceted gemstone. After a diamond has been cut, it has proved itself to be pretty durable compared to many of the hazards when one wears it in a finished piece of jewelry. Still, diamond can be fractured or cleaved by accident, but it won''t be a spontaneous breakage under any normal circumstances.

A feather, especially any sort of inclusion which opens on the surface is a weaker area of the diamond. If it is going to break, chip or cleave, such a weakened area is a potentially higher risk zone. In 40+ years, I have seen just a few diamonds which really seemed doomed to be readily broken in use and far fewer which actually broke. Many more diamond become chipped slightly around the girlde and/or abraded on the crown from years of harsh wear and improper storage rubbing other diamonds in moving jewelry cases. Few really suffer big, important damage in use.
Insurance covers such drastic loss anyway for nearly all such major losses. Such major losses are relatively rare.

If a consumer can avoid a diamond with inclusions which are open on the crown, especially those open on the table, they are doing the right thing. Many imperfect diamonds are inherently flawed with open blemishes. It is just part of the game at the low end.

A tiny feather, open or not, in a VS1 or VS2 is unlikely to evre be the reason for a future problem. I have seen no evidence of such a problem ever. Usually diamonds which fall apart had good reason to be weak due to thinness, shape, or obvious flaws which always were rather prominent.

Like Dave (who I agree with) I have several more years experiance than young ''30 years of diamond'' (who I agree with), and I have re appraised many diamonds several times - when I see damage, and I do, it is almost always associated with girdle chips - and 90% of those chips are not seemingly related to inclusions. The most likley cause of chipping is thin girdles with low crown angles (generally they go together).

I even have a belief that many diamonds with inclusions are actually less likely to chip near the inclusions. Can''t prove it though.

However I do avoid diamonds with crown opens - especially those that run across table crown facet junctions (even more so than table only opens Dave).

So it seems that feathers or cracks are not realy a big issue.
Dave you have seen many more very low clarity stones than most - does your opinion hold down around I2-I3?

Finally I know for a fact that Argyle champagne (and pink''s) are more easily broken (the Company Sec of Ashton who found Argyle did an experiment to smash many small diamonds from several mines - with a hammer and anvil) and I have seen more bits drop out of these Aussie colored diamonds than all the colorless diamonds of which I have seen may more stable stones.
(I guess that means we Aussies can''t take a lot of stress before we crumble)

I agree with all here on their opinion regarding feathers and durability issues..., a rough Diamond goes through a rough cutting process prior to becoming a beautiful faceted Diamond. But more importantly a rough Diamond lives through extreme harsh environments until he is found in the ground...
I believe durability is more of an issue after man handles it..., like said above..., the durability issues are usually on the polished parts of the Diamond (eg girdle chips and abraded crown/table.

Cutters know (based on experience) that brown shades are more fragile vs others..., most cutter wont risk sawing a significant size brown Diamond as chances of breakage are pretty darn high unfortunately..., I dont think it has something to do with provenance..., but do think most brown material are more prone to damages because they carry a lot of natural stress which one identifies in a polariscope... (am I using the right terminology?)

Hi there was wondering, comparing brown diamond with sapphire. Brown diamonds are still much harder on the moh scale?

 

[blingmyring]

Is it a bad idea to cover a feather with a prong; would it depend on the feather? Thanks !

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/3/2009 2:19:04 PM
Author: blingmyring
Is it a bad idea to cover a feather with a prong; would it depend on the feather? Thanks !

One of the experts will probably clarify but I believe it does depend on the feather, sometimes the prong is placed next to the feather rather than directly on it to avoid undue strain.

 

[blingmyring]

Thanks for your reply Lorelei; I appreciate it !

 

[rdoemail]

Thanks for asking this question lorelei. On the ranking of all the inclusions on diamonds, how does feathers rank on the list? I know if it does not affect the look of the diamond it is not a big deal but does it reduce it''s value any? How common are feather versus the other inclusions? Thanks!

 

[blingmyring]

Bump.