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calling Dreamer & other old cut lovers

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by jeweln, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. jeweln
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by jeweln » Jul 26, 2012
    Hi ,
    I have caught the OEC bug ! I am torn between buying a small AVR vs a big OEC from ebay .I like the perfection & best light return of the AVRs but want a big size (which is not possible within my budget ) . what about this listing :
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/350572553180?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
    I like the pattern ,do the diamonds look good ? is there possible leakage under the table ? the seller mentioned there is a nick on the girdle . what best offer can I make ? is it worth buying and looking at then returning if I don't like it ?

    Thanks for any imput .
     
    


    


  2. ecf8503
    Ideal_Rock

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    by ecf8503 » Jul 26, 2012
    That is beautiful!
     
  3. ForteKitty
    Ideal_Rock

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    by ForteKitty » Jul 26, 2012
    That ring has been on ebay for a few months, but I see that she finally sent it in to GIA for grading. I'd be curious about the color/clarity, as the center looks to be about L-M/VS in her current pic. I think the asking price is a little overpriced, but the diamonds look nice. You definitely have to see it in person to decide. She used to have more pictures up, and if I recall correctly, the crown is of a nice height. The nick wouldn't bother me at all unless it's a feather that extends into the diamond. If it's just on the surface, it can be easily polished out.

    I personally wouldn't pay more than $7k for it, but that's just me. Maybe $7500 if I really liked it... but that's me. I'm cheap when it comes to diamonds. :bigsmile:
     
  4. jeweln
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by jeweln » Jul 26, 2012
    Fortekitty ,
    thanks for your reply .do you mean $7k for the whole ring or for the center diamond only assuming it is L/M ,VS ?
     
    


    


  5. ForteKitty
    Ideal_Rock

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    by ForteKitty » Jul 26, 2012
    She had all three stones listed for $7500 a few weeks ago. If you look at the completed items under her listings, you'll see it. So that is the max I'd pay, knowing she would have sold for that price! ;))

    But yes, assuming the diamonds are a minimum of L-M/VS, I'd pay $7k. the $500 premium is because matching sidestones are so hard to find.
     
  6. TravelingGal
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by TravelingGal » Jul 26, 2012
    Kinda reminds me of Dreamer/jjc/demelza's type stone. Very pretty!
     
  7. dreamer_dachsie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by dreamer_dachsie » Jul 26, 2012
    Ditto ForteKitty about price and color.

    I approach cut in oldies differently than a lot of others do -- you may or may not care about how I think about cut in these old guys. Many would disagree with my approach. But you asked ::) So here is how I would assess and think about this diamond if I were considering buying it for myself.

    Though I do think it looks vaguely similar to my stone in that one head on shot of the three stone, I don't think they look very alike all told. These images make it pretty clear it is a very different make than mine and Dems (at least clear to me ;)) ):

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item51a0338908&item=350580082952&nma=true&pt=Loose_Diamonds&rt=nc&si=8JSrVfo82LRlqP4fR3Tn01%252FjOfE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

    It shows stark contrast patterning under the table which is more common in an older OEC than it is in a stone like mine or Dem's which don't have any stark contrasts under the table. As the attached image shows, the little triangles in between the "arrows" are quite dark and may be leaky/hazy areas that are not very active. So the arrows will light up within the center on top of a darker table area. Old cut lovers call this a "maltese cross effect". And I think this effect is why all the pics in the loose stones listing are at an angle ;)) You don't see the maltese cross effect at a tilt angle, only head on, and that's because the proportios of the stone don't reflect back stright up, they reflect back at an angle. Anyways, some like this look. I have seen a few OECs that do this and it bugged me, but others like it. I can't tell for sure the stone shows this, but I am suspicious. My measurements put the table at 58%, which is bigger than I like to see in an old cut unless the LGF are very long, much longer than they are in this diamond. It could work depending on all the other parameters and depending on your esthetic preferences.

    But oldies are unique and the numbers only are suggestions, not definitive, you need to see it in person to know for sure. Worth seeing, but as I said, I am not personally jumping out of my chair just based on the hints in the pics that its a type of old cut I am not personally a wild fan of.

    I would want to see the GIA report before anything and know the depth and table percentage, and the color/clarity of course.

    leakyleak.jpg
     
  8. TravelingGal
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by TravelingGal » Jul 26, 2012
    Interesting! And I only saw the new listing with the one photo, so I can see what you're saying (actually, I can't, but hey...I'm blind, so...) ::)
     
  9. diamondseeker2006
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    by diamondseeker2006 » Jul 26, 2012
    I had that ring in my saved ebay items, too, mainly for inspiration. But if I make a 3 stone ring, it will be with AVR's because matching three antique stones that also have good light return would be a nightmare that I would not enjoy. Matching three AVR's is hard enough because of the limited supply! I'd be more likely to do an old cut as a solitaire ring.
     
  10. CrisM
    Shiny_Rock

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    by CrisM » Jul 26, 2012
    ForteKitty: Where do you see her completed items on the listing? Sorry, not seeing what you're seeing and it would seem a helpful tool to have in the box!

    "She had all three stones listed for $7500 a few weeks ago. If you look at the completed items under her listings, you'll see it. So that is the max I'd pay, knowing she would have sold for that price!"
     
    


    


  11. dreamer_dachsie
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    by dreamer_dachsie » Jul 26, 2012
    Maybe this will make clearer what I am saying, comparing this photo of the ebay stone to my and Demelza's diamonds to illustrate the difference, and my 7mm, which I think has a similar table performance, but a smaller table which is I think better.

    So, image one is the diamond the OP was asking about. In the image the shot is face on and the light is coming from behind. notice the contrast between the 'arrows (though I doubt this stone shows true arrows in person, it is likely more flowery) and the triangular areas I identified in red in my previous post.

    Images 2 and 4 show Dems and my diamonds with the light coming from behind. It is not a perfect comparison because our hands are there, but you can see how there is not a stark contrast between arrows and the areas between arrows. The whole under table area is patterned on-off-on-off and looks bright. Our stones do not show a maltests cross type effect at all. In image 4 I included my 7mm stone which is a classic OEC. The 7mm does show a bit of the malteses cross effect -- or under table leakage if you prefer -- in the areas between the "arrows" or "flower petals. I think if you look at the image you can see that, the bright petals and the slightly more hazy areas behind/between the petals.

    For interest sake, images 3 and 5 are head on shots of Dems and my stones from ebay that made me stop and a) e-mail Dem and tell her to buy her stone immediately and b) make an offer on my diamond. Notice there are no over dark areas in either (ignore the obstruction on arrows in my stone, those are not dark in real life as we know), and in particular the areas *between* the arrows are bright. The contrast pattern is uniform accross the whole face, rather than one contast pattern on the outer perimeter and another under the table. I prefer the contrast pattern to be uniform accross the whole face. Other like the older look where there is a bisier pattern around the perimeter and a more blocky maltese cross like pattern under the table. I think the ebay stone may be more like the latter, but its larger table worries me. My 7mm has a 45% (ish) table.

    compare123.jpg
     
  12. dreamer_dachsie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by dreamer_dachsie » Jul 26, 2012
    On the right click the "Sellers other items" then on the left click "completed listings"
     
  13. TravelingGal
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    by TravelingGal » Jul 26, 2012
    Thanks for taking the time to educate, Dreamer. I hope someone else gets it, because it's all still lost on me, lol. I do think I'd be able to better discern what looks good IRL. I just can't tell that level of detail from a static photo!
     
  14. dreamer_dachsie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by dreamer_dachsie » Jul 26, 2012
    Hmm. Well, my evaluation could be wrong 8) I have honed my own ability to see a photo on ebay and translate it into what the stone might look like in person just from buying so much. I am sure I pass on some lovely stones. But I have only returned one diamond out of the many many I have bought -- and that is one where I should have trusted my gut and not bought it because there was evidence in photos of the under-table issues I saw in person. I'm pretty picky and know what I like and don't like by now. Other might not be as picky. The nuances I am trying to illistrate in the collage are not nuances some people will pick up on.

    Tell me this at least -- when you look at my diamond in those images can you see how the facet patterning is similar accross the face of the stone whereas in the ebay stone and my 7mm there is one type of patterning around the perimeter and another bolder blockier faceting under the table?
     
  15. TravelingGal
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by TravelingGal » Jul 26, 2012
    I can see it in the 7mm, and in my own old cut (but the table is so small, it seems to work). I don't see a different patterning in the ebay stone around the perimeter and a much bolder/blockier pattern under the table. I'm only working from the initial head on shot though, not the other ones in the second link you posted.
     
    


    


  16. Mara
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Mara » Jul 26, 2012
    Here's another option to look at. This is the same seller where Dreamer got her stone, though her pricing was much more competitive than this so I think you have a lot of room to negotiate with the seller. The stone image even looks almost exactly like hers...! Wonder how many more this seller has of this variety, hehee. YUM!

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/18k-White-Gold-Antique-Like-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-1-35ct-Center-Stone-/110923565216?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item19d38f48a0
     
  17. TravelingGal
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    by TravelingGal » Jul 26, 2012
    "Antique-like?" So NOT an antique? I wonder if the stone is antique...and if not, I wonder if they are able to source that cut somewhere?

    I gotta say though, I like that basket!
     
  18. yennyfire
    Ideal_Rock

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    by yennyfire » Jul 26, 2012
    I have to agree with TGal...I can't really follow the nuances of what Dreamer is showing in the photos, but to my eye, it's a pretty stone. Definitely not worth the asking price though!
     
  19. jeweln
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by jeweln » Jul 26, 2012
    Dreamer ,
    Thanks for your detailed reply . do you suggest I buy this ring and look at it ? how much would the center stone alone be worth ?
     
  20. jeweln
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by jeweln » Jul 26, 2012
    Thanks mara ,that is a beautiful stone ,but the price is too high ?
     
  21. cellentani
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    by cellentani » Jul 26, 2012
    jeweln, I almost never pay the auction asking price for jewelry, and if you're checking out ebay, I find that you can sometimes gauge if/how much a seller is flexible in pricing by looking at their completed auctions. For example, this same seller that mara linked had a much larger stone - it was originally listed at $13,999, but as you can see, he was willing to sell it for 4K less. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...pKd7USk%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_534wt_1037

    That should give you a good starting point for negotiations, provided the return policy is solid.
     
  22. jeweln
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by jeweln » Jul 26, 2012
    cellentani ,
    thanks for your advice .by the way the 3 OEC ring ebay seller suddenly ended the listing today !
     
  23. cellentani
    Ideal_Rock

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    by cellentani » Jul 26, 2012
    Oh that's a bummer - someone probably made an offer that was accepted. I promise it wasn't me (and likely not dreamer either, given her comments, lol), but unfortunately I've seen lots of instances where an ebay auction is snagged while someone is asking about it. Not saying that's what necessarily happened here of course, but when an option you're invested in suddenly disappears, it always sucks.
     
  24. ForteKitty
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    by ForteKitty » Jul 26, 2012
    There are a lot of lurkers. It's highly likely that someone may have offered her the $7500 (or less) to go off ebay.
     
  25. jeweln
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by jeweln » Jul 26, 2012
    or maybe she got the GIA report and will relist ? wishful thinking !

    any other contenders ? I am looking for a at least 7 mm OEC or transitional with chunky facets and regular symmetry ( no wonky stones ) ,
    minimum light leakage under the table .but my budget is maximum $5K (unfortunately ) !
     
  26. Mara
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    by Mara » Jul 26, 2012
    I thought the same thing. Personally I think that middle stone is pretty sweet looking and would be beautiful in person, if not I think the seller has a good return policy. I guess some lucky buyer will find out! :naughty:
     
  27. cellentani
    Ideal_Rock

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    by cellentani » Jul 27, 2012
    I haven't been looking for old cuts in that size, but if I see anything, I'll let you know. I will say though, the people who get the bargains on ebay tend to spend a LOT of time looking - the initial time investment in honing and culling a search can be overwhelming, but once done, if you save your search then you can just check any new items listed for that day.
     

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