Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut help

[Kim N]

This time may be the charm with my OEC search, but I wanted to get some of your opinions on the cut of this stone before I make a final decision. Would love to hear your thoughts on the following:

1. In the first photo, is this a girdle chip? Would something like that cause any durability issues?
2. Looking through the table at a slight angle, there is some girdle reflection. I think I can also see the inside of each of the prongs this way, but I've never seen this with my H&A stones—is girdle reflection a normal thing with old cuts?
3. What do you think of the cut quality and facet pattern with this stone? Particularly the cut quality with regard to the amount of obstruction it's displaying? In some photos, it's showing a lot of obstruction; in others, not so much.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

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[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

It is disgusting!

Disgustingly gorgeous.

For a classic OEC I really like the patterning. It does appear to go a little dark in some pics, but that is normal -- most stones will go dark like that with a big black object in front of them It seems in those pics the N-S facets are a little darker than the E-W. This means the pavilions mains are not symmetrical around the circumphrence of the stone. And again, this is a normal aspect of old cuts. The question is whether in normal viewing you see an over dark under table area, and whether the optics are acceptable to you. In my experience with old cuts, all of them have some small weaknesses optically, unless you get into the much later styles with better optical symmetry of the cuts. Even those have some weaknesses. if you want perfect you need an RB!

Anyways, I really like this one from what I see, especially since I know you had a tight budget for the size you wanted and that means some flexibility in the end product IMO.

Your other questions:

1. No idea, you need an appraiser. Looks like a feather to me not a chip but who knows.
2. I think its common in old cuts. At an extreme angle I see it in my stone too.
3. See above. Obstruction is par for the course in OECs in my opinion, so its really a matter of whether its i nacceptable range for you, and to me this one is.

 

[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

It is disgusting!

Disgustingly gorgeous.

For a classic OEC I really like the patterning. It does appear to go a little dark in some pics, but that is normal -- most stones will go dark like that with a big black object in front of them It seems in those pics the N-S facets are a little darker than the E-W. This means the pavilions mains are not symmetrical around the circumphrence of the stone. And again, this is a normal aspect of old cuts. The question is whether in normal viewing you see an over dark under table area, and whether the optics are acceptable to you. In my experience with old cuts, all of them have some small weaknesses optically, unless you get into the much later styles with better optical symmetry of the cuts. Even those have some weaknesses. if you want perfect you need an RB!

Anyways, I really like this one from what I see, especially since I know you had a tight budget for the size you wanted and that means some flexibility in the end product IMO.

Your other questions:

1. No idea, you need an appraiser. Looks like a feather to me not a chip but who knows.
2. I think its common in old cuts. At an extreme angle I see it in my stone too.
3. See above. Obstruction is par for the course in OECs in my opinion, so its really a matter of whether its i nacceptable range for you, and to me this one is.

Thanks for your input, Dreamer, I really appreciate it. I am very close to deciding to keep this stone, and your opinion inched me closer yet. It is gorgeous in person, more beautiful than the other one I had. Who knows, though, if it was the other one's bezel that made it seem to perform a little less well?

Re: the girdle reflection—the girdle reflection in general doesn't bother me *except* for the fact that I see the inside of the prongs. They are dark, so all of a sudden I see a dark thing creeping up at the edge of the table. The other thing that bothers me is that I see the inside of the prongs at a *slight* angle; the angle doesn't have to be extreme with this stone for me to see the reflection.

 

[yssie]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Ditto - gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous stone!

The asymmetry in faceting is a plus IMO - gives the stone that charm and character without taking away from quantity of light return, and helps break up that obstruction pattern like Dreamer pointed out (I do think this is common w/ OECs and given how sharp and clear and crisp the faceting is I'm not about to downgrade it either ) The small table should help minimize girdle reflection, the girdle itself looks very clean in the face ups so that's very nice too.

Not sure what the artifact in the first pic is. Will you be keeping the stone in its current setting or are you thinking about resetting it? It's right next to the girdle but right under the raised UGF meet, depending on how big the stone is/how high the crown is it might be easy or more difficult to set the stone so that that area is right under a prong if you decide to reset to a different 4 or 8 prong design.. 6 prongs would make it much easier in that respect.. just throwing some thoughts out.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Different old cuts react differently to bezels. My own stone I prefer in an enclosed mount, when it was loose it lost some of its crispness. Other stones do not fare well in a bezel -- the other OEC you had was worse in the leakage/obstruction under the table than this one you have now, and in my experience, leakage and obstruction type issues are made worse by an enclosed mount.

The prong thing... can you post a photo of what you mean? I have no see such a thing in one of my own stones to my knowledge, but mine have all been a heck of a lot smaller than this one you have! I am wondering if its not the prong at all but some other optical thing.

 

[yssie]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

ETA

I'm looking again and the stone is currently set in a VERY odd orientation, and it looks like a sizable stone? 4 equally-spaced prongs sit most comfortably on the flat kite facets, but I've seen benches do fine with balancing 4 prongs on the UGF meets, though this would be less ideal. But on the angled UGFs, symmetrically so the prongs are all pushing on the stone and all trying to turn it in the same direction? That's a difficult one for a larger stone - VC couldn't do it with my RB - I'm wondering why they did that, if it was a deliberate choice... definitely also confirm that the stone is secure if you decide to leave it as-is.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Oh, and you have asked before about what obstruction looks like when it is really bad... see below. I had that stone for a while and it had unacceptable obstruction. See the difference between this picture, below, and your own?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

ETA

I'm looking again and the stone is currently set in a VERY odd orientation, and it looks like a sizable stone? 4 equally-spaced prongs sit most comfortably on the flat kite facets, but I've seen benches do fine with balancing 4 prongs on the UGF meets, though this would be less ideal. But on the angled UGFs, symmetrically so the prongs are all pushing on the stone and all trying to turn it in the same direction? That's a difficult one for a larger stone - VC couldn't do it with my RB - I'm wondering why they did that, if it was a deliberate choice... definitely also confirm that the stone is secure if you decide to leave it as-is.

Can you show what you mean with a photo? I am having trouble visualizing what you describe.

 

[yssie]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Oh, and you have asked before about what obstruction looks like when it is really bad... see below. I had that stone for a while and it had unacceptable obstruction. See the difference between this picture, below, and your own?

 

[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Thanks, Yssie! That is a very good point about the asymmetry actually helping break up the obstruction. I have not viewed it in a ton of different environments yet (just indoor CFLs and outdoors in shade), but so far, I think the center never goes completely dark.

Could you explain what you mean by the stone set in an odd orientation? Do you mean instead of setting on flat kite facets, the prongs are set on the meets? I did notice the prongs are crooked to each other—that is, two diagonal prongs seem to match each other but do not match the other two diagonal prongs.

This will be a temp setting for now until my funds recover enough for another, slightly more elaborate setting. I will probably still go with 4 prongs, though, but I could definitely ask to get that artifact hidden under a prong.

Oh, and if I keep it I will get it appraised to make sure it's secure.

 

[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Oh, and you have asked before about what obstruction looks like when it is really bad... see below. I had that stone for a while and it had unacceptable obstruction. See the difference between this picture, below, and your own?

Wow, okay, that is bad obstruction!

 

[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Different old cuts react differently to bezels. My own stone I prefer in an enclosed mount, when it was loose it lost some of its crispness. Other stones do not fare well in a bezel -- the other OEC you had was worse in the leakage/obstruction under the table than this one you have now, and in my experience, leakage and obstruction type issues are made worse by an enclosed mount.

The prong thing... can you post a photo of what you mean? I have no see such a thing in one of my own stones to my knowledge, but mine have all been a heck of a lot smaller than this one you have! I am wondering if its not the prong at all but some other optical thing.

I've been trying to photograph it, but it's hard to capture. I'll keep trying and post if I get a good shot.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Just a question...you have reliable information regarding girdle thickness? Beautiful stone!

 

[yssie]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

ETA

I'm looking again and the stone is currently set in a VERY odd orientation, and it looks like a sizable stone? 4 equally-spaced prongs sit most comfortably on the flat kite facets, but I've seen benches do fine with balancing 4 prongs on the UGF meets, though this would be less ideal. But on the angled UGFs, symmetrically so the prongs are all pushing on the stone and all trying to turn it in the same direction? That's a difficult one for a larger stone - VC couldn't do it with my RB - I'm wondering why they did that, if it was a deliberate choice... definitely also confirm that the stone is secure if you decide to leave it as-is.

Can you show what you mean with a photo? I am having trouble visualizing what you describe.

Paint?

 

[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Just a question...you have reliable information regarding girdle thickness? Beautiful stone!

Yes, no worries about the girdle. Thanks, DS!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Yssie, in case I haven't said this lately, you are amazing.

 

[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Yssie, are you saying mine is the bottom left one or top right one? Great illustration!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Yours is the top right I think!

Yssie, mine is like the bottom left but with 8 prongs. But my diamond sits on a shelf within its bezel and the prongs just sort of hold it in place in the bezel/on the shelf, so likely that makes it a bit different than when you have only prongs holding the stone?

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

I really think that's a gorgeous stone.

 

[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Different old cuts react differently to bezels. My own stone I prefer in an enclosed mount, when it was loose it lost some of its crispness. Other stones do not fare well in a bezel -- the other OEC you had was worse in the leakage/obstruction under the table than this one you have now, and in my experience, leakage and obstruction type issues are made worse by an enclosed mount.

The prong thing... can you post a photo of what you mean? I have no see such a thing in one of my own stones to my knowledge, but mine have all been a heck of a lot smaller than this one you have! I am wondering if its not the prong at all but some other optical thing.

I've been trying to photograph it, but it's hard to capture. I'll keep trying and post if I get a good shot.

Here's the best shot I've got of seeing the prong through the table. When looking at it through the loupe, I can definitely tell it's metal. And it's visible to the naked eye at even a slight angle.

 

[Kim N]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

I really think that's a gorgeous stone.

Thanks, Gypsy, I'm very glad you think so. I'm really close to keeping this stone.

 

[madelise]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

YAY! Your search is coming to an end! It's beautiful. How do you figure you'll set it?

 

[justginger]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

I think it has gorgeous patterning, I really like it a lot. I even love the setting it is in now, larger old cuts in plain solitaires appeal to me because my eyes are drawn to the beautiful flower cut in the stone. Congratulations on finding a treasure.

 

[chicam]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

What size is the stone? ie carat size.

 

[GemFever]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Kim, does it look like the prong reflection in these pics? I saw this stone on ebay and was quite puzzled what was going on, posted here about it, and the PS conclusion was that the stone is too shallow. Hopefully this is not the case with your stone though.

 

[Rosebloom]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Yssie you are amazing. Wow - that illustration is so interesting!

 

[Luxie]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

Wow that is one beautiful stone. What is the carat size? Judging by the size of the stone compared to the band, it looks pretty huge.

 

[yennyfire]

Re: Calling Dreamer, ForteKitty, Mara, Gypsy, Yssie for cut

It looks like a keeper!