blingergrrrl
Brilliant_Rock
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2007
- Messages
- 542
Ok thanks, that''s kinda answers my question...But to have a H&A pattern, would you need a high grade of physical symmetry, and would a high grade of physical symmetry give a distinct pattern of optical symmetry (not necessarily H&A)? I thought that that the 2 were at least related...Date: 2/6/2007 1:10:43 PM
Author: belle
i think you may be confusing optical symmetry (think hearts and arrows) with physical symmetry (meet points) that labs grade. you won''t be able to readily tell the difference between the top grades in physical, lab graded symmetry.
VG Symmetry exampleDate: 2/6/2007 1:02:35 PM
Author:blingergrrrl
I was wondering if anyone who owned diamonds with a GIA cert grade of VG for their symmetry had pics of the diamond to show? ie. what pattern does the diamond show when looking down at it? Just curious if there is a real difference between a VG and EX symmetry?
Thanks!
Hmmm, hard to tell between the symmetries as the cut is a VG with a VG symmetry and the 2nd stone is an EX cut with EX symmetry...But nice to see the VG VG as I am thinking of getting a stone with that rating (but with a 0.8 on the HCA as opposed to the 5.4 rating the example got).Date: 2/6/2007 2:03:38 PM
Author: Serg
VG Symmetry exampleDate: 2/6/2007 1:02:35 PM
Author:blingergrrrl
I was wondering if anyone who owned diamonds with a GIA cert grade of VG for their symmetry had pics of the diamond to show? ie. what pattern does the diamond show when looking down at it? Just curious if there is a real difference between a VG and EX symmetry?
Thanks!
Ex GIA symmetry example
Unhelpful examples.
Hi Rhino,Date: 2/6/2007 4:52:09 PM
Author: Rhino
Conversly here is a GIA EX/AGS Id with superior optical symmetry alongside another GIA Vg cut grade but this time due to steep angled proportions (pavilion angle at 41.8 degrees).
Peace,
Rhino, you are sure its not the other way around? I would have thought the second image you posted (41.8 deg. vg) is the one with the shalower pavilion because of its bright area around the culet.Date: 2/6/2007 4:52:09 PM
Author: Rhino
Conversly here is a GIA EX/AGS Id with superior optical symmetry alongside another GIA Vg cut grade but this time due to steep angled proportions (pavilion angle at 41.8 degrees).
Peace,
And that is where personal preferences come into play. There are what are considered steep angled combos, not quite as steep as that example but similar that do make Ex grade that folks have expressed favor towards.Date: 2/6/2007 5:38:59 PM
Author: DBM
I see. Thx. I honestly would have said the right one is a nicer cut but maybe it''s just the glare or maybe the contrast of dark to white in the EX makes it more favorable to the eyes.
You have a beautiful stone lumpkin and I would agree with you. The quality of brightness and fire in a diamond should take precedence over optical symmetry. While I am a nut for optical precision, I''ve seen diamonds optically precise yet lack in their optical characteristics. I value high craftsmanship but if face up appearance is impacted, I''ll take the more common optical symmetry with higher brightness/fire/scintillation any day.Date: 2/6/2007 5:48:14 PM
Author: lumpkin
Blingergirrl, I just wanted to add that for me personally, perfect symmetry is not as important as overall brilliance and fire. I actually like my diamond to be just a little off because it seems ''machined'' if everything is perfect. ALTHOUGH, I am torn when I see some of the beautiful AGS0s on the board. In real life, though, during normal wear, I find my diamond to be really satisfying to me.
Neil Beatty said yesterday during his open session that he''s very mathematical and the ID/ID of an AGS0 really appeals to him. So if you are really turned on by seeing the arrows aligned in a certain way with your prongs and really feel that that gives you a more well crafted piece, I don''t think you will be happy with a GIA VG/VG. I really like mine, though.It''s very fiery and brilliant.![]()
It''s funny you should ask this. The very first graphic I posted is one I use in my article covering the strengths/limitations to the HCA. It''s a point of contention I have with it as the first graphic I posted is of a diamond that is a GIA Ex/AGS Ideal that gets an HCA of 2.3 (the diamond on the left). The diamond alongside of it gets an HCA of 1.5 and is a GIA VG/AGS 5 because of light performance. Garry has a preference for shallow angled combos that I don''t always share. For me it really depends on the angle combos used. Some shallow angled combos look fine to me but not all of them do. That stone in the first graphic on the right is an example of one and is a good example of a diamond that lacks brightness/contrast/static scintillation yet does have good fire.Date: 2/6/2007 5:58:01 PM
Author: lumpkin
Rhino, do you happen to have any GIA VG''s that score really well on the HCA? If you could put one of those next to an AGS0 it might be interesting to discuss symmetry vs overall performance. I wish I could remember where but I think there have been threads about really brilliant but not firey, or firey but not brilliant, etc. I know that the AGS0s have both fire and brilliance, but probably not all the GIA EX with EX/EX do. Any examples of those? Just curious.
Thank, Rhino.Date: 2/6/2007 6:01:13 PM
Author: Rhino
You have a beautiful stone lumpkin and I would agree with you. The quality of brightness and fire in a diamond should take precedence over optical symmetry. While I am a nut for optical precision, I''ve seen diamonds optically precise yet lack in their optical characteristics. I value high craftsmanship but if face up appearance is impacted, I''ll take the more common optical symmetry with higher brightness/fire/scintillation any day.
Peace,
Date: 2/6/2007 6:07:57 PM
Author: Rhino
It''s funny you should ask this. The very first graphic I posted is one I use in my article covering the strengths/limitations to the HCA. It''s a point of contention I have with it as the first graphic I posted is of a diamond that is a GIA Ex/AGS Ideal that gets an HCA of 2.3 (the diamond on the left). The diamond alongside of it gets an HCA of 1.5 and is a GIA VG/AGS 5 because of light performance. Garry has a preference for shallow angled combos that I don''t always share. For me it really depends on the angle combos used. Some shallow angled combos look fine to me but not all of them do. That stone in the first graphic on the right is an example of one and is a good example of a diamond that lacks brightness/contrast/static scintillation yet does have good fire.Date: 2/6/2007 5:58:01 PM
Author: lumpkin
Rhino, do you happen to have any GIA VG''s that score really well on the HCA? If you could put one of those next to an AGS0 it might be interesting to discuss symmetry vs overall performance. I wish I could remember where but I think there have been threads about really brilliant but not firey, or firey but not brilliant, etc. I know that the AGS0s have both fire and brilliance, but probably not all the GIA EX with EX/EX do. Any examples of those? Just curious.
This may sound weird coming from a techno junkie lumpkin but its why I get aggravated sometimes when I see folks place too heavy an emphasis upon any one technology. I am for technology and extracting as much useful data as possible from it but there is no single technology that can predict what you or I may prefer when it comes to diamond appearance. Most of us are looking for a quick fix ... a tool to tell us what and what not to buy. The tools and technologies are excellent for telling us what constitutes the rarest (in many cases) and there certainly is value in rarity, but as much as we''d like to put our finger on what constitutes best, that is still for the buyer to decide and I''d recommend nothing short of their own 2 eyes. Of course there are many instances when rare and best coincide but I can think of many cases wherein it doesn''t too. We''re on the same frequency.Date: 2/6/2007 6:19:32 PM
Author: lumpkin
Date: 2/6/2007 6:07:57 PM
Author: Rhino
It''s funny you should ask this. The very first graphic I posted is one I use in my article covering the strengths/limitations to the HCA. It''s a point of contention I have with it as the first graphic I posted is of a diamond that is a GIA Ex/AGS Ideal that gets an HCA of 2.3 (the diamond on the left). The diamond alongside of it gets an HCA of 1.5 and is a GIA VG/AGS 5 because of light performance. Garry has a preference for shallow angled combos that I don''t always share. For me it really depends on the angle combos used. Some shallow angled combos look fine to me but not all of them do. That stone in the first graphic on the right is an example of one and is a good example of a diamond that lacks brightness/contrast/static scintillation yet does have good fire.Date: 2/6/2007 5:58:01 PM
Author: lumpkin
Rhino, do you happen to have any GIA VG''s that score really well on the HCA? If you could put one of those next to an AGS0 it might be interesting to discuss symmetry vs overall performance. I wish I could remember where but I think there have been threads about really brilliant but not firey, or firey but not brilliant, etc. I know that the AGS0s have both fire and brilliance, but probably not all the GIA EX with EX/EX do. Any examples of those? Just curious.
I think no matter how precise the art of diamond cutting becomes, there is always going to be room for different preferences, I suppose. I think it may still depend on a diamond by diamond comparison and even with precision, the specs don''t always tell the whole story. It can be so subtle and undefinable what makes someone prefer one diamond over another when they are both very beautiful.
I completely agree!! That's why I'm looking at the GIA VG cuts but using the HCA (I realize now it's not all inclusive). Around here, most stones are 0.5ct and nowhere near ideal so I really haven't even seen an ideal cut in personDate: 2/6/2007 5:48:14 PM
Author: lumpkin
Blingergirrl, I just wanted to add that for me personally, perfect symmetry is not as important as overall brilliance and fire. I actually like my diamond to be just a little off because it seems 'machined' if everything is perfect. ALTHOUGH, I am torn when I see some of the beautiful AGS0s on the board. In real life, though, during normal wear, I find my diamond to be really satisfying to me.
Neil Beatty said yesterday during his open session that he's very mathematical and the ID/ID of an AGS0 really appeals to him. So if you are really turned on by seeing the arrows aligned in a certain way with your prongs and really feel that that gives you a more well crafted piece, I don't think you will be happy with a GIA VG/VG. I really like mine, though.It's very fiery and brilliant.![]()
Well I can definitely say that I like the one on the left better!!!Date: 2/6/2007 6:07:57 PM
Author: Rhino
It''s funny you should ask this. The very first graphic I posted is one I use in my article covering the strengths/limitations to the HCA. It''s a point of contention I have with it as the first graphic I posted is of a diamond that is a GIA Ex/AGS Ideal that gets an HCA of 2.3 (the diamond on the left). The diamond alongside of it gets an HCA of 1.5 and is a GIA VG/AGS 5 because of light performance. Garry has a preference for shallow angled combos that I don''t always share. For me it really depends on the angle combos used. Some shallow angled combos look fine to me but not all of them do. That stone in the first graphic on the right is an example of one and is a good example of a diamond that lacks brightness/contrast/static scintillation yet does have good fire.Date: 2/6/2007 5:58:01 PM
Author: lumpkin
Rhino, do you happen to have any GIA VG''s that score really well on the HCA? If you could put one of those next to an AGS0 it might be interesting to discuss symmetry vs overall performance. I wish I could remember where but I think there have been threads about really brilliant but not firey, or firey but not brilliant, etc. I know that the AGS0s have both fire and brilliance, but probably not all the GIA EX with EX/EX do. Any examples of those? Just curious.
No prob. Glad to be of some help. Let me ask for clarification ms. blingerrrrl.Date: 2/6/2007 6:29:58 PM
Author: blingergrrrl
I completely agree!! That''s why I''m looking at the GIA VG cuts but using the HCA. Around here, most stones are 0.5ct and nowhere near ideal so I really haven''t even seen an ideal cut in personDate: 2/6/2007 5:48:14 PM
Author: lumpkin
Blingergirrl, I just wanted to add that for me personally, perfect symmetry is not as important as overall brilliance and fire. I actually like my diamond to be just a little off because it seems ''machined'' if everything is perfect. ALTHOUGH, I am torn when I see some of the beautiful AGS0s on the board. In real life, though, during normal wear, I find my diamond to be really satisfying to me.
Neil Beatty said yesterday during his open session that he''s very mathematical and the ID/ID of an AGS0 really appeals to him. So if you are really turned on by seeing the arrows aligned in a certain way with your prongs and really feel that that gives you a more well crafted piece, I don''t think you will be happy with a GIA VG/VG. I really like mine, though.It''s very fiery and brilliant.
. My boyfriends got the idea in his head for at least 1ct, but we are compromising in the middle (I''m trying to get the most sparkle for the best deal we can). I''m already ahead of the game IMHO, and I don''t think I need perfect symmetry to have a perfect diamond (for me).![]()
Rhino: I can tell which stone is the EX in both pics,but if I can ask what the price difference would be between the 2 stones in the second picture? I might lean a little more towards the left stone, but I do think the one on the right is really nice too! And thanks for the pictures!!
It''s a very good chance then that you too would not prefer shallow AGS 5/GIA VG angled combos. Too much darkness for me personally.Date: 2/6/2007 6:37:09 PM
Author: blingergrrrl
Well I can definitely say that I like the one on the left better!!!Date: 2/6/2007 6:07:57 PM
Author: Rhino
It''s funny you should ask this. The very first graphic I posted is one I use in my article covering the strengths/limitations to the HCA. It''s a point of contention I have with it as the first graphic I posted is of a diamond that is a GIA Ex/AGS Ideal that gets an HCA of 2.3 (the diamond on the left). The diamond alongside of it gets an HCA of 1.5 and is a GIA VG/AGS 5 because of light performance. Garry has a preference for shallow angled combos that I don''t always share. For me it really depends on the angle combos used. Some shallow angled combos look fine to me but not all of them do. That stone in the first graphic on the right is an example of one and is a good example of a diamond that lacks brightness/contrast/static scintillation yet does have good fire.Date: 2/6/2007 5:58:01 PM
Author: lumpkin
Rhino, do you happen to have any GIA VG''s that score really well on the HCA? If you could put one of those next to an AGS0 it might be interesting to discuss symmetry vs overall performance. I wish I could remember where but I think there have been threads about really brilliant but not firey, or firey but not brilliant, etc. I know that the AGS0s have both fire and brilliance, but probably not all the GIA EX with EX/EX do. Any examples of those? Just curious.
As well you know Rhino the stone you used as an example is a very very poor comparison because of many other factors.Date: 2/6/2007 6:07:57 PM
Author: Rhino
It''s funny you should ask this. The very first graphic I posted is one I use in my article covering the strengths/limitations to the HCA. It''s a point of contention I have with it as the first graphic I posted is of a diamond that is a GIA Ex/AGS Ideal that gets an HCA of 2.3 (the diamond on the left). The diamond alongside of it gets an HCA of 1.5 and is a GIA VG/AGS 5 because of light performance. Garry has a preference for shallow angled combos that I don''t always share. For me it really depends on the angle combos used. Some shallow angled combos look fine to me but not all of them do. That stone in the first graphic on the right is an example of one and is a good example of a diamond that lacks brightness/contrast/static scintillation yet does have good fire.Date: 2/6/2007 5:58:01 PM
Author: lumpkin
Rhino, do you happen to have any GIA VG''s that score really well on the HCA? If you could put one of those next to an AGS0 it might be interesting to discuss symmetry vs overall performance. I wish I could remember where but I think there have been threads about really brilliant but not firey, or firey but not brilliant, etc. I know that the AGS0s have both fire and brilliance, but probably not all the GIA EX with EX/EX do. Any examples of those? Just curious.