Cad Design

[TWoodman]

HI
In need of interpretation
We hired a professional jeweler, one that comes at a significant premium.
The bench has worked for Tiffany and Harry Winston ( Verbatim)
We were promised a CAD to custom design our setting and have yet to receive one.
The jeweler and world-class bench seem to think pictures are the same thing as a CAD!
Is it me?

 

[PinkAndBlueBling]

Not the same! You want the measurements, angles, etc. to see if it needs tweaking and if the design is what you want. Maybe they aren't used to clients who are detailed and know to actually ask for the CADs. Still.... not cool.

You're paying for a service and product and you have a right to get those drawings!

 

[TWoodman]

Not the same! You want the measurements, angles, etc. to see if it needs tweaking and if the design is what you want. Maybe they aren't used to clients who are detailed and know to actually ask for the CADs. Still.... not cool.

You're paying for a service and product and you have a right to get those drawings!

Ok. exactly our thoughts. Well, the ring has been finished without providing a CAD with dimensions.
Hence the post. We are not happy.
I am debating putting the jeweler on blast here

 

[TWoodman]

Custom Setting Gone Wrong​

General Question or Looking for Advice
Here is my dilemma,
We contracted with a jeweler /diamond procurer for our upgrade.
We had shopped around, and they were the most expensive prices we received, 35-70% more depending on the company, however, they have a good online presence and the equipment to validate the stone with imagery, so we decided to pay the extra freight.
The results are the most important, not the money
We agreed to move forward with an inspirational pic. (Tiffany Dupe). Pending a CAD, we already had an anniversary band that the setting needed to work with
We paid in full in advance!
We were promised a Cad, which we never received.
We contacted the specialist after 6 weeks for an update and were told we were being finished up.
OK
Originally they stated that the CAD from the bench would take six weeks, so we assumed the "CAD"
Citing, he has worked for Tiffany and Harry Winston!
Exciting! Right!
NO CAD was ever given. The next we heard, Your ring is Done! When do you want delivery?
Oh Boy. Well, the stone is 4.37 carats, and the band is a measly 1.9mm
to make matters worse, There is a 3.4 mm space between the anniversary band and the setting.
We contacted the jeweler
The jeweler immediately copped an attitude, claiming no responsibility claiming 99.9% of his clients do business this way, without a CAD.
On top of which, they expect us to pay to have the ring re-done!
We are so annoyed and have completely lost faith in this individual.
I think it's time to move on. What would you do?

 

[lovedogs]

Can you provide pics, etc? Either way, that is not good bu8sness practice. And I would be naming names if I were you

 

[TWoodman]

I should, since joining this community, so many have helped us. Not to mention what a valuable resource PS can be. I feel like we can save someone from going through the same experience

 

[jaqjaqjaq]

I would be upset if I were expecting a CAD before any work was done only to be told your ring is ready! How do you feel about the ring itself?

 

[Rhino]

I would be upset as well if a vendor just made a ring without showing the client CAD images of what it would look like upon completion! HOW RUDE!

I believe I see where the misunderstanding here is and it's in what one's expectation is when requesting CAD as well as the communication throughout the process. As one who does this on a daily basis and has served tens of thousands of clients here since 2001 I'd like to add some perspective as a CAD designer.

Firstly ... Good post and a few questions as I do CAD for clients all the time and especially on this forum as well as others. Our business model in way of both CAD design as well as diamond design has been formed by listening and adhering to the very consumers on this forum so your post is and should be important to any vendor not caring to have their name blasted.

People who work in this profession, when sending CAD images to clients generally do so with one of a few things or multiple depending on the client and their requests/demands. For example, were I being requested to create a Tiffany like ring for a client that is a pretty straight forward request.

Anyone who has researched the Tiffany setting knows it's a 2mm wide shank, knife edge, around 3mm raised from the finger and normal thickness on the sides and bottom (about 1.8mm). Many not even aware of that. As most consumers aren't aware of precise mm measurements on the Tiffany, or basically any ring they forward images of, we personaly find it is best communicated with images comparing the model built as compared to what it is you want. This is what I show my clients via email, WhatsApp, etc. or I even go live with clients on Google meet and share my screen with them and get them as involved in the process as they like. I've even posted some of these on our YouTube channel. If they want differently, theyt simply ask and I provide. Rarely do they request the minutia of .01mm etc. but we are always more than happy to provide that on the measurements of any aspect of the ring be it shank width/height, donut size, height off finger from shank to table etc. Whatever they want as customer service is and always should be #1.

I personally use realisitic renders and not green plastic models. Some may use mechanical drawings, cartoon, wire frame, etc. as there are a number of various "views" the CAD designer can show to the consumer and various CAD designers use different views/colors but the overwhelming majority of people we serve love realiistic and not green plastic, however we can show them just about anything they desire upon request.

I transparently lay out my process in a video I feature on my homepage and remain transparent throughout the entire process. Any consumer I've worked with here can testify and I've helped tens of thousands over the decades I've been serving the online community.

So ... from reading your post, questions that come to mind are the following ...

if you did commission this vendor to make you a Tiffany look alike, how far does it deviate from that design?

Did they alter the shank width?

Shank shape?

Shank height?

Did the vendor show you realistic images or plastic models of the ring they were creating for you?

If they showed you what you weren't expecting did you ask for what you were expecting?

Did you compare those images alongside of the inspiration images to see how it would look?

Did they ask you if there was anything you wanted to change about the design before they collected your capital to commence the job?

Based on your post it seems that you received a ring that deviates from the design or a ring you were completely unaware that you comissioned and that you were shown nothing to do with CAD.

If they created for you what you requested and that you personally gave the green light on and then you expressed your dissatisfaction with what you ordered after receiving it ... did they offer you a reasonable solution to make it right or did they tell you to blow off?

On a personal note, were you my client I'd offer a reasonable solution to make it right.

If you did in fact get what you ordered, and you wanted a redo, me personally would only ask for the difference to do your edits/alterations. We're all human and make mistakes. That's not the issue but what is important is how we handle those mistakes if they occur. A vendor who is unreasonable and doesn't offer reasonable solutions is not good.

If I personally accepted a commissioned job and gave you something entirely different from your request I'd do it over at no charge to you at all and would be the right thing to do.

I can't imagine any CAD designer taking it upon themselves to create a ring without the client viewing of the CAD images and approval. If that was their practice they wouldn't last a day in the business of helping and serving clients with CAD, much less decades. Hope to see your issue get resolved @TWoodman and that you have a vendor who is in fact reaching out to help you and not blowing you off.

Kind regards,
Rhino

 

[Mreader]

Agree with everybody else that you should’ve been given a CAD but my question is about the anniversary band. If that was already made, were you expecting that to fit flush? Because I don’t think that type of band would fit flush with any setting.

 

[Rfisher]

The jeweler and world-class bench seem to think pictures are the same thing as a CAD!

Do you mean by pictures, a rendering? Whether it’s appropriate or not I don’t know as I’m not in the trade, but some jewelers/ designers do call renderings cads. They typically don’t send cads with all the measurements/grid unless requested if at all.

If so-

We agreed to move forward with an inspirational pic.

If you ‘signed off’ on the rendering - you essentially signed off on the cad. Maybe?

Discussions about shank width desires, if had, were then missed or misscommunicated. It happens. It’s happened to me a few times -

Did the jeweler have access to your anniversary band, and know your specific one’s specs they needed to be sure to sit flush as a hard stop necessity for the project? To discuss the possibilities/pros/cons?

I understand your frustration.
Yeah - some jewelers you get what you get, some make begrudged gesture of compromise, and others will eat a re-do.
They all vary -
And when they told you ‘99% of his clients do business that way’ - it’s may well be true.

Doesn’t mean you have to like it though.

 

[TWoodman]

Can you provide pics, etc? Either way, that is not good bu8sness practice. And I would be naming names if I were you

The timing of the business trip was optimal. Having the opportunity to temporarily disengage for a few days has proven to be a source of tranquility. However, I remain uncertain about the efficacy of name-dropping, as it lies beyond the scope of my personal demeanor.

 

[TWoodman]

I would be upset if I were expecting a CAD before any work was done only to be told your ring is ready! How do you feel about the ring itself?

The diamond exhibits exceptional beauty, and we are pleased with our acquisition. Nevertheless, it remains a factual observation that the setting does not precisely align with our preferences. Given the opportunity, we would have opted for a different configuration.

 

[TWoodman]

Agree with everybody else that you should’ve been given a CAD but my question is about the anniversary band. If that was already made, were you expecting that to fit flush? Because I don’t think that type of band would fit flush with any setting

 

[TWoodman]

Yes, we had already obtained the anniversary band. We communicated this to the vendor through email notification, although it appears to have been overlooked. It's important to note that we did not anticipate a perfectly flush fit; extensive research was conducted regarding a six-prong setting and the 4ct. stone size. The intended stack was always envisioned as the engagement ring, wedding band (as the spacer), followed by the anniversary band.

When we inquired with the vendor whether any of the Tiffany-style replica settings would accommodate a flush-fitting anniversary band, the response was affirmative: "Yes, we can make it such."
Consequently, the current 3.5mm space presents a discrepancy from our expectations.

 

[TWoodman]

Do you mean by pictures, a rendering? Whether it’s appropriate or not I don’t know as I’m not in the trade, but some jewelers/ designers do call renderings cads. They typically don’t send cads with all the measurements/grid unless requested if at all.

If so-

If you ‘signed off’ on the rendering - you essentially signed off on the cad. Maybe?

Discussions about shank width desires, if had, were then missed or misscommunicated. It happens. It’s happened to me a few times -

Did the jeweler have access to your anniversary band, and know your specific one’s specs they needed to be sure to sit flush as a hard stop necessity for the project? To discuss the possibilities/pros/cons?

I understand your frustration.
Yeah - some jewelers you get what you get, some make begrudged gesture of compromise, and others will eat a re-do.
They all vary -
And when they told you ‘99% of his clients do business that way’ - it’s may well be true.

Doesn’t mean you have to like it though.

Yes, our initial approval was based on an image of the setting.
However, it's imperative to include that the Jeweler assured us that the master bench would provide a CAD presentation within approximately six weeks. This procedure resonates with our past experiences in procuring custom jewelry. Although our expertise lies beyond the realm of the jewelry trade, our background in diverse trades such as drafting, machining, metal fabrication, and construction has acquainted us with numerous technical drawings. Consequently, the term CAD holds a specific significance for us.
With years of custom design endeavors, we've learned that providing a detailed CAD to the customer is necessary to avoid inadvertently introducing ambiguity, potentially leading to misinterpretation of the project's scope. Therefore, failing to establish a clear path of expectation can result in disparities in the outcome.

 

[Rfisher]

However, I remain uncertain about the efficacy of name-dropping, as it lies beyond the scope of my personal demeanor.

It may help to not think of it as ‘outing’
your vendor - or to trash talk them.

If you think it’s a vendor that PS’ers have experience with, and you want to know if your experience is typical or atypical -
Or even if it’s a ‘if I knew the. What I know now’ type situation -

****It all depends on how you as the thread starter structure it here. *****

Constructive and a learning experience for you and most likely others who read it

Or

A flaming blame fest where really there’s no winners.

 

[concun]

I was in similar situation. My local jeweler is quite a big name here but none of my pieces (5 total) they made for me had CAD. I visited the store in person and discussed the design, brought in inspired pictures. They don’t do email but text. I requested CAD, but the texts I received were either asking for more clarifications which I thought was to made the CAD or telling me to pick up the pieces. None of the pieces provide full satisfaction for me as a customer, e.g not incorporate my adjustments to the inspired design, or not as I envisioned it in my head. To my family and friends, it sounded as I nitpicked. Since they were not in the loop or not saw enough beautiful designs here, just by seeing the pieces for the first time, they all thought it looked great till I pointed out this and that. The jeweler did work with me trying to fix it. Sometimes it got fixed, sometimes it would be better to be left alone and sometimes it can’t be fixed. They all ended up not be worn because every time I looked at them, the unpleasant experience came back. In the end, I came to term that this is the way this jeweler does business and I needed to get over the fear of sending it far away to the right bench. My first try was with WINK and it was perfect. That time it was WINK to do his own design as my jeweler did Wink’s design and failed so I figured I needed to send it to the original bench. Too bad that later Wink no longer accepted outside stones. I am having DK making 3 pieces at once as my first time. I should have waited to see the first piece firstly but seeing many people here have had great experience with him, I think it will be ok. So far so good. I can tell you that sometimes when I see the CAD, I questioned my vision lol. So it is crucial for customer and jeweler to have the CAD or rendering pictures with measurements. Better yet with both to avoid miscommunication and manage expectation. There is a chance that the customer still may not like the final product in the end, but at least the process itself is a great experience and educated learnings.
So instead of thinking that this is due to not having CAD, let see if you can remedy it with the designer and fix it to your liking. If you think it will not go anywhere, you may have to take your loss but it is a valuable lesson. Like you, I don’t feel great naming them here either. Sure, I will tell people I know but not in public forum because I can’t estimate the impact afterward so I am just more careful. I forever appreciate other reviews that inform me to make my decisions, but weight more on ones that can give both pros and cons rather than just cons.
Good luck and let us know what you will do next.

 

[Rhino]

I think a key takeaway here is ... if you're not getting what you're expecting during the CAD modeling process ... *ask*. Ie. if a vendoer is sending you realistic renders and you're more comfortable with green models ... ask. If you prefer finished renders ... ask. Want numbers with measurements? Ask. If the vendor is interested in the quality of their customer service they'll give their client the CAD images/renderings they're asking for.

Actually just got done chatting with Caysie Van Bebber about this as she also forwards CAD to clients as well as via us as I work closely with her as we feature her settings as well. Her exact words ... "I never share the green models with the measurements. I only share the final renders." I know of many others who do the same. She also specifically stated she doesn't share the mm numbers as that makes it too easy for others to copy her designs.

So this practice is actually pretty normal.

Just for educational purposes and to avoid these kinds of problems as anyone moves along with any CAD designer I think it would be helpful for the online community to see and visualize what we in the industry define as a CAD so as not to have false expectations when people move forward. As mentioned I have a video right on my homepage outlining our particular process to help make it clear but I'd like to share other CAD images here for what other's also consider, getting a CAD.

I tend to use whatever will communicate to the client best and I use finished renders of the model like Caysie in one of two (or even both sometimes) CAD rendering programs. Vendors like myself, CVB, among others publish CAD renders on their Instagram/Facebook regularly but here are other CAD images within my particular program we'll use to communicate sometimes as well. All of the images you see here are equally considered "CAD" images. Some are pretty neat views but not all of them do I think are useful.

This first is one is from our advanced rendering program outside of the CAD program.


Here's a split screen wire frame view.



Solid wire frame.


Plastic model. The rendererd inset to the right is another internal rendering program within the CAD program I use to send renders on the fly.


Pencil Sketch view.


Outlined


White model


LOL cartoon.


Black framed.


Another type of cartoon type.


Mechanical drawing


Wired plastic


Pastel


Another type of mechanical.



Hope that helps everyone. Note: Not all CAD programs contain these various views so while this is in the program we use I wouldn't make a blanket statement that all CAD programs can show these.

Kindest regards,
Rhino

 

[Rfisher]

This first is one is from our advanced rendering program outside of the CAD program.

Can you also show a photo of this finished item
For educational purposes?

 

[Rhino]

Can you also show a photo of this finished item
For educational purposes?

This particular one is in production and I had just pulled it from recent renders.

here's an example though of another which I had developed off of that weaved prong design. The pix were taken with an older cell phone so please forgive. LOL ... looking and comparing the CAD to the phone photography is actually motivating me to start breaking out my Sony a99 35mm DSLR.

 

[Rfisher]

And that looks like a different rendering program as well?

I’m not picking on you @Rhino
Just curious or wary about the super realistic renderings and how they relate to finished product images. What’s achievable irl.