Buying Nightmare - Need Advice - Please Help!

[ice_is_nice]

I was almost ready to make my dimaond purchase.

The jeweller that I have been working with ordered in a stone for me to see. We had already worked out all pricing details beforehand and all that there was left for me to do was to see the stone in person to make sure it met my approval, as well as get ian apprialsal. The price we worked out was $11, 500 including the setting and all taxes.

I called today to see if it had come in and he said he just got it. I told him I would be in as soon as I could make it. I then got a call about half an hour later and he told me that he made a mistake on the price. He claims to have forgotten to convert the price into Canadian dollars from American dollars. He claims that the price he should have qouted me should have more than $14,000 just for the diamond alone. Since it was his error, however, he would give it to me for $14,317 with the setting and taxes.

I went into the store and told him that I was extremely disappointed and that I had stopped my search efforts because I was pretty sure I would be buying this particular diamond. It has taken over two weeks to actually get the dimaond in, therefore, other diamonds that I was considering could possibly be sold by now.

After some discussion he told me that the absolute best he could do was $13,110 with setting and taxes included. This is still $1,610 more than the original price I was quoted.

Is this sort of situation normal? Should I expect him to honour the original price he quoted me? Do I have any recourse in this situation?

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Mara]

What an unfortunate story. Not sure what your recourse is from a legal perspective...but why bother to continue to want to do business with such an idiot? Pardon my french. But if he can't manage to figure out that he needs to convert the price from one currency to another, do you really want to buy this stone from him? What else did he forget to do or overlook? Too tricky.

You are spending a very large amount of money, money that most likely was hard earned by you....spend it wisely. Just because you halted your search for a few weeks doesn't really mean much other than lost time and a lesson learned, there are still tons of diamonds out there for you to view and find another one to buy.

I would tell this guy to keep his stone and his horrible mathematics skills and start looking again. Did you consider online vendors? Some have very beautiful stones and you pay less of a markup than you do in retail. Not sure what sort of stone you are looking for, but your budget is very healthy. Don't get taken for a ride...shop smart.

My two cents....best of luck!

 

[Balustroid]

Hi ice_is_nice

I agree with Mara. With that sort of budget, I will take my time, be choosy and shop smart!

Just an opinion. Good luck!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hang on ladies, maybe the poor retailer made a simple mistake. I mean what sort of sale trick motive would that be? Doomed to failure!!!

If the stone is a good stone and the price is a good price, then live and let live.

And we know nothing about the stone - so it is not fair to jump to conclusions.

 

[diamondsman]

I agree with cut nut, Maybe it was an honest mistake.'
Ice ,You have the right tool to check out if you are getting a good deal on the same type of stone ,right here on the web, just go to different vendors and compare the 4 c's.and the price in u.s dollars and convert it to canadian.
If the same type of stone is much cheaper,then just forget about the stone you saw and purchase the one form the net.

good luck
p.s what kind of stone is it, shape,size,color clarity?

 

[aljdewey]

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On 8/30/2003 1:58:25 AM ice_is_nice wrote:
The price we worked out was $11, 500 including the setting and all taxes.

I called today to see if it had come in and he said he just got it. I told him I would be in as soon as I could make it. I then got a call about half an hour later and he told me that he made a mistake on the price. He claims to have forgotten to convert the price into Canadian dollars from American dollars. He claims that the price he should have qouted me should have more than $14,000 just for the diamond alone. Since it was his error, however, he would give it to me for $14,317 with the setting and taxes.

I went into the store and told him that I was extremely disappointed and that I had stopped my search efforts because I was pretty sure I would be buying this particular diamond. It has taken over two weeks to actually get the dimaond in, therefore, other diamonds that I was considering could possibly be sold by now.

After some discussion he told me that the absolute best he could do was $13,110 with setting and taxes included. This is still $1,610 more than the original price I was quoted.

Is this sort of situation normal? Should I expect him to honour the original price he quoted me? Do I have any recourse in this situation?

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

----------------

Ooooooo......tough call. Thoughts I have on this: I'm not sure he was or was not trying to take advantage here. I'm sure it was an honest mistake on the conversion.......and I'd be inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.

Would I still purchase it? Well, depends on a few things. If all I could think of every time I saw the diamond would be "I overpaid" or "I got played on this deal", then I'm not sure I'd consummate the sale. If I could accept that it was a mistake and the higher price wouldn't be the only thing I see when I look at it, then perhaps I'd still purchase it.

What I don't like about this scenario is this: He made a mistake. He says "since it was my error, I'll drop it down to $14,317".......then after discussion, he drops again down to $13,110. Now, this is just my opinion, but I'm in sales, so take it at face value: Where he made the mistake, he shouldn't be trying to "negotiate" out of it. If the "absolute best" resolution he could offer is $13,110....he should have offered that first....right away.

I don't know if there's legal recourse or not......and further, is it worth it? The cost to pursue it is likely to exceed the difference you are being asked to pay. Your only other recourse is to decline the purchase, and only you can determine if you're ok with that. If you do that, will you later dwell on "the one that got away"?

Keep in mind, this is not the only diamond on the planet that will meet your needs. They may not be abundant.....but you found the first, so you can find another. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you (time, effort) to look elsewhere.

My opinion......if this were me, I'd forgo the purchase and keep looking. Good luck, whatever you decide is best for you.

 

[fire&ice]

*****What I don't like about this scenario is this: He made a mistake. He says "since it was my error, I'll drop it down to $14,317".......then after discussion, he drops again down to $13,110. Now, this is just my opinion, but I'm in sales, so take it at face value: Where he made the mistake, he shouldn't be trying to "negotiate" out of it. If the "absolute best" resolution he could offer is $13,110....he should have offered that first....right away. *****


Interesting to note that the vendors are siding w/ the vendor on an honest mistake. I would agree w/ them. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt

BUT........the above statement by Al is powerful. He should have admitted his mistake. Stated the correct amount & said "let me see what I can do". And, then, come back with his *absolutely* best price.

As far as what to do: Do you like the diamond? Can you afford to pay the extra? Is it indeed an appropriate price? Do you still feel comfortable with the vendor?

BTW, what are the specs of the stone.

 

[elmo]

Good advice from everyone here.

Don't worry about sinister motives and lawsuits. That would be pointless.

However, you have given this jeweler the one and only one chance they deserve...and they screwed it up pretty badly. Definitely time for you to move on.

 

[fire&ice]

A question for ice is nice.

Were you talking in American dollars or Canandian dollars during any discussions or negotiation?

 

[ice_is_nice]

Here is a little more information...

There were two stones being considered. I told him that I was hoping to stay below $11,000 on the total cost of the ring. One was a .908 H VS2 and the other was a .945 G VS2. Both are Dream diamonds.

If I recall correctly he had quoted me $10,500 for the 0.908 diamond and $11675 for the 0.945. He advised me that the 0.945 had better proportions so I asked if he would do the deal for $11,500 and he agreed. The $11,500 price can be further broken down as follows: diamond $9,350 and setting $1,150.

At no time were we ever discussing American dollars.

It is very much a possibility that this was an honest mistake but what bothers me a bit is that if you take $9,350 American and convert it to Canadian using a rate of 1.4 you get $13,090. You would need to use an exchange rate of 1.5 to get above $14,000.

I have very mixed feelings about this. I like the diamond but was expecting to pay $11,500.

The thing that bothers me is that this is supposed to be an exciting time and the memories are supposed to be good but so far they have been very bad. I have also had a horrible customer service experience with Tiffany's which, I will explain some other time.

 

[hoorray]

It will probably be hard to feel good about purchasing this diamond until you comparison shop and/or post the diamond specs to get some solid input on whether it is a fair price or not. (this crowd wants all the dimensions -- including crown and pav angles)

At the end of the day, you have to decide if you want to do business with the vendor, but it should help to know what a good price for what you're buying should be and what your other options are.

 

[elmo]

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On 8/30/2003 9:36

1 AM hoorray wrote:

It will probably be hard to feel good about purchasing this diamond until you comparison shop and/or post the diamond specs to get some solid input on whether it is a fair price or not. (this crowd wants all the dimensions -- including crown and pav angles)
----------------

Hooray - on a Dream, EightStar, etc. the specs are irrelevant.

But darmed that's a lot of money for a 90 pointer

. You could get *two* D/E VS 90 point RB ideals for that kind of money, even before the price was jacked

.

I really do think the Dreams have a nicer overall look than the other square super ideals I've seen pics of here, just my personal preference. The others sortof look like they've twisted a round to try and make it square

.

 

[hoorray]

opps, you are right elmo! I don't know diddly-squat about Dream diamonds, and never even looked at the 8*, least I fall in love

.

Sounds like you and others who have shopped them can help here tho.

 

[fire&ice]

Wow is that one expensive stone. My 3c I/SI was not too much more.

Are you sold on the HOF Dream? Maybe this is an omen.

 

[Mara]

It's quite possible that the vendor made an honest mistake, in fact it's very likely. However, that doesn't really redeem him much in my eyes, I have a low tolerance for stupidity. If this is his life's business, shouldn't he be a little more savvy on converting dollars, esp when it means revenue for him? I just wouldn't feel comfortable dropping $11k with someone who forgot to convert currencies. To me that's pretty bonehead.

But then again I am a tough customer. I would never want to sell to me anyway!

That said, I also don't like it when stores or companies make mistakes on pricing and then still try to charge you more than their advertised price. I'm in marketing and I view it somewhat like..if I screw up and advertise something for $20 and it's really $200...I should honor that price. Sure it will eat into my profit and maybe I will lose money, but it was my own stupidity that got me into that situation in the first place. It irks when companies make mistakes like that and then don't honor their original posted price. Maybe if they were forced to, they would never make that mistake again. Instead of being rewarded and getting their should-have-been asking price in the end.

There is a huge price jump there, he should have offered it to you at the price you verbally agreed on. That combined with his original stupidity would make me pass on this stone. There are other Dream and HOF vendors out there. Don't reward one idiot with your $11-13k.

That said...I'm not even going to get into the whole 'well you could have 2 stones if you bought RB..'..I'm too tired today for that argument. What I will say is that it sounds like you are overpaying for the Dream stone...compared against other Dream stones I have seen priced. We looked at a .80 G SI Dream for $7000 at a local HOF vendor. We also looked at a ~1.05c H VS Dream stone (or something around those specs..maybe G SI) for $10k. So how are you being asked to pay about $11k JUST for your .94c stone? That sounds like markup on top of markup to me! Don't give that vendor any more of your money than you have to in order to get a good stone!! Be smart.

Lastly, you mention wanting to have a good experience. Definitely go with your gut. Jaxie, a forum member on here, has traded in her ring something like 3 times in a year because each time there was something that went wrong with the transaction, or the stone.... so they tried one more time and finally they had a good situation. She now adores her finished product, stone, etc. That can be the power of emotion when it comes to items such as this. So I would heed your gut. If you think that this situation ruins your good feeling, GO TO ANOTHER VENDOR. You do not want to have regrets when all is said and done.

You are the customer, power of the purse..and all that jazz. Take advantage of it.

Good luck!!

BTW F&I....a 3c I SI well cut for around $13k? I am SOOO jealous!!!

 

[elmo]

----------------
On 8/30/2003 2:54

6 PM Mara wrote:

That said...I'm not even going to get into the whole 'well you could have 2 stones if you bought RB..'..I'm too tired today for that argument.
----------------

I think you misread me - a Dream customer may not be pleased with a round. What I wrote was a frame of reference for pricing. 2 E-VS round ideals for the price of 1 G-VS Dream puts price into perspective, no?

 

[NewYorker]

If he could drop the price twice.... just sounds like a salesman to me. I wouldn't buy from him just on principle. You'll find exactly what you're looking for elsewear for a better price. In fact, you may want to tell him that - maybe he'll magically be able to give it to you for the price you agreed on. Good luck.

 

[ice_is_nice]

Thanks everyone for your input. I know that I will definitely not pay $13110 (Canadian dollars) for the ring. As Mara stated in her post, I think that the seller (who in this case also happens to be the proprietor of the store) should stand behind the original price that was quoted. Given that the consensus appears to be that HoF has a very high markup I'm pretty sure that he would still be making a profit at $11,500 (Canadian dollars), although perhaps a very slim one. At the very least, the ring should be offered to me at his breakeven cost. After all, he has admitted that he will be making a profit at $13,000 (Canadian dollars).

I think I will go back into the store early next week and ask him to show me exactly what went wrong, including actual proof of the figures.

The other alternative that I was looking at is the Lucere. My understanding, however, is that they do not tend to have as good a light return as the Dream. I have actually seen some BrillianceScope results thanks to Good Old Gold (I'm sure this situation would never have happened with Jonathan) but they were only average and nowhere near the results of MaxJr's Dream.

I know I would probably have a much easier time and would probably save a lot of money by getting a round brilliant but I know that my girfriend loves the square shaped diamonds so RBs are out of the question.

 

[elmo]

----------------
On 8/30/2003 9:20:51 PM ice_is_nice wrote:

At the very least, the ring should be offered to me at his breakeven cost....I'm sure this situation would never have happened with Jonathan
----------------

I'm sure he'd get his currency conversion rates right

, but Jon as well as other dealers here have in fact in the past mispriced stones that weren't below cost but for which they also weren't willing to honor the originally posted price. It's pretty common. I think it's fine for them to say 'I made a mistake, I'm sorry'. I also think it's fine for the customer to take their business elsewhere

, especially if they didn't feel quite right about how something was handled.

p.s. I like your choice of something different, a really nice fancy cut like this...even "superideal" rounds can seem so, um, ordinary

.

 

[valeria101]

Sir,
you are going to give alot of extra money on the ring. Try israel-diamonds.com for comparison on price. After all, I would go for a better shopping experince. The storry sounds like bad luck nd you do not want any of that, right?!

 

[pulp_princess]

I'm quite curious to hear about your customer service experience with Tiffany, ice_is_nice. I've just recently also had a nightmare experience with them. They still have my ring, so I guess it's not over yet.

It seems like an odd mistake to make that they forgot to convert to US currency. Do you know if they usually import stones?

 

[Mara]

----------------
On 8/30/2003 11

0:53 PM valeria101 wrote:

Try israel-diamonds.com for comparison on price.
----------------

Interesting site...the owner seems to have multiple threads on DT with solicitious type posts about viewing his site for best deals etc. Has anyone ever dealt with them for a sale?

 

[ice_is_nice]

Alright you asked for my Tiffany's story so here it is. Sorry if it's a little long-winded but I want to provide a full account of my experience.

Some of you may have already read about my bad experience stemming from a jeweller that forgot to convert a price from American to Canadian dollars. Unfortunately that was only the last of three bad experiences. One of these bad experiences was with Tiffany's.

I went into Tiffany's on a Wednesday afternoon to get some quotes for the Lucida. The salesperson seemed nice enough and was more than willing to help out. To make the story easier to follow, let's call this salesperson Chuck.

I was already familiar with the Lucida and did not really need the sales pitch. I asked him if he had anything in stock in the following range:
0.85 - 0.95 ct
G-H colour
VS1-VS2 clarity

The closest he had was a 0.70 F VS1 bt it was rectangular as opposed to square. He told me that he could run a search to see what was available in Tiffany's inventory that matched my parameters but it would take a couple of
days. He told me that he would call me on Friday afternoon since he would probably have the information by then. I asked him if he could also provide me with specs for the stones. He told me that he could do this but preferred to do this once I saw the results of the search and we could work from there to identify a couple of stones and he would get copies of the certificates for them. This seemed fair so I agreed.

By mid-Monday I still had not heard back from him so I called Tiffany's to speak to Chuck. The operator told me that he was one vacation. I asked when he would be back and she said he would be away for two weeks. I asked if I could speak to another salesperson and she connected me to someone else. I explained to that person that I was already being helped by a Chuck but had been told that Chuck was on vacation. This new salesperson told me that Chuck was actually in the store and transferred me to him.

I explained to Chuck that I was a little confused since the operator told me he was on vacation. He explained that he was but he had come into the store to finish up some work. I asked if he had gotten the information I requested and he said no. He then told me he would try while I was on the line and proceeded to put me on hold. When he came back on the line he said he could not get through to his contact in New York and would call me later in the day. Chuck, however did not call.

The next day I called Tiffany's again and asked for Chuck. Again I was told he was on vacation. I asked to speak to somebody else and was transferred to a saleperson whom I will refer to as Anna. I asked Anna if Chuck was in and she said no. He was now definitely on vacation. I explained to her that he was supposed to get back to me with some information and I told her that I did not appreciate the fact that he never told me that he was going to be on vacation, especially since he had committed to providing me with information.

Anna told me that their policy is to have somebody cover for each salesperson that goes on holidays ad tat she would find out who was backing up Chuck ad call me back. I asked her to make sure she had somebody call me back before the end of the day and she said she would.

A couple of hours later I received a call from a saleperson I will refer to as Stewart. He said he had all the details of my diamond information request and would get back to me with prices. He called me the next day and provided me with prices for 4 diamonds. I requested the specs for two of them. He said he would get the information for me and call me back when he had it.

The next week I called to follow up with Stewart and was told that Stewart was now on vacation. I asked to speak to a manager and told him my story. I told him that it was unacceptable to have salepeople not meet their time commitments for providing information. At the very least they could call and provide an update and explain that more time would be required.

Furhtermore, I stated that it was unacceptable that two salespersons would make commitments to provide me with information and then leave for their holidays without telling me that they would not be available and without telling me who I could deal with while they were away.

Maybe I am overreacting a little but I always thought that Tiffany's was supposed to have superior customer service. If this is the kind of service you get when they are trying to compete for your money I would hate to see what kind of service I would get once they did get my money.

The manager did apologize to me and agreed that the behaviur of the salespeople left something to be desired. He undertook to find out where the information request had been left off and to carry it out from there.

He called me a little later and explained that Stewart did receive copies of the certificates for the two stones I had selected. this made me even more angry because Stewart had the info and did not even bother to call me to give it to me.

I should also add that I had explained to both Stewart and Chuck that I was hoping to purchase by mid to late Septemeber. They both told me that this was a little bit tight because it would take time to find the stones that fit my parameters and then would tkae even more time to actually get it into Canada. I can't believe that they showed such blatant disregard for a potential customer's interests.

In any event I did get the specs for the stones and will post them.

The thing is that I was seriously contemplating paying the extra money for the Lucida because I know my girfriend really likes it although she has told me that she thinks it is overpriced.

One thing that I can say, despite all the aggravation that I have encountered so far in my diamond search, is that my girlfriend is worth the effort.

 

[ice_is_nice]

Pulp Princess, I forgot to mention that the jeweler I am dealing with for the Dream diamond is an authorized HoF dealer and therefore should be quite familiar with the currency conversion process.

Valeria, thanks for the suggestion but israel-diamonds.com does not appear to offer either the Dream or the Lucere. Then again, it may just be that I was looking in the wrong place.

 

[ice_is_nice]

Pulp Princess, I read about your situation on DiamondTalk. It makes my problems pale by comparison. I hope eveything turns out to your complete satisfaction!

 

[Mara]

----------------
On 8/30/2003 6

4:13 PM elmo wrote:

----------------
On 8/30/2003 2:54

6 PM Mara wrote:

That said...I'm not even going to get into the whole 'well you could have 2 stones if you bought RB..'..I'm too tired today for that argument.
----------------

I think you misread me - a Dream customer may not be pleased with a round. What I wrote was a frame of reference for pricing. 2 E-VS round ideals for the price of 1 G-VS Dream puts price into perspective, no?
----------------

Elmo...what I meant was that if I had more perk today I probably would have said something along the same lines...but as more of a real suggestion...than just a frame of reference. I'm not a fan of the big markups of the HOF and similar type stones in general. But I didn't even want to go there today!

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 8/31/2003 12-06-04 AM Mara wrote

----------------

Try israel-diamonds.com for comparison on price.<>

----------------

Sure. I got a sapphire from there. The source of the gems are Israeli cutters and dealers of colored stones. I am only intersted in colored stones, but I have no reason to believe that they sould treat diamond buyers worse. As for the diamonds, they add to the inventory weekly or so, and you can have any kind and quality of anything, as you could see. I have not tried their return policy (had no need) but they would arange this under no or little re-stocking fee, depending on the item one buys. Hope this helps...

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 8/31/2003 1:28:20 AM ice_is_nice wrote:

One thing that I can say, despite all the aggravation that I have encountered so far in my diamond search, is that my girlfriend is worth the effort.
----------------

I don't doubt that; but, does she know how much larger RB she could have for the price? HOF commands just as much premium & you stated she didn't want to spend the extra money.

Guys, never assume anything. Remember, it's a women's perogative to change her mind.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 8/31/2003 1:33:23 AM ice_is_nice wrote:

Pulp Princess, I forgot to mention that the jeweler I am dealing with for the Dream diamond is an authorized HoF dealer and therefore should be quite familiar with the currency conversion process.

----------------

Which brings me to a thinking outside the box thought. Do you think perhaps the jeweler had an OS moment w/ HOF pricing structure? He could loose his "distributorship" if he prices too low. Maybe he was reminded this by HOF.

Mara, I said "not too much more" on my stone when he was talking 14.3K. It's relative. But, yes, my stone was the least expensive one (albeit the prettiest) I viewed.

 

[niceice]

It seems a little strange to us that a Canadian Jeweler "forgot" to convert the selling price of the diamond into his native currency... The one which he works with every day, but it's "possible"... That aside, that IS a lot of $$$ for a diamond with the characteristics you've described... You'd "think" that if the jeweler made an "honest" mistake he would have focused on resolving the mistake by cutting out his profit to get the final price as close to his original quote as possible, but that's just our way of fixing honest mistakes, "to each his own" as the saying goes... Good luck!