Buying an engagement ring

[daz1]

Hi guys and girls, I am buying an engagement ring and have asked a jeweler to get me a 0.7ct d triple excellent gia certified diamond to put onto a very nice setting that I liked at the store. So he told me he has loads of 0.7ct diamonds and he will give me the best one. So today I got an email from his saying he will give me the following diamond:

GIA round brilliant
Measurement: 5.66 x 5.68 x 3.55
0.70ct
d
vs2
excellent cut, polish, symmetry
fluorescence none
clarity characteristics: cloud,crystal, feather, indented natural

table: 57%
depth: 62.7%
crown angle: 36.5
pavilion angle: 40.8

im a bit concerned about the proportion and the clarity. Please let me know your thoughts if it is a good diamond or not.

Thank you!

Daz

 

[daz1]

here is the diamond on the gia report

 

[kenny]

Of all the shapes round is the easiest when it comes to determining cut quality.
Two Steps:
1. HCA
2. Idealscope
This will guarantee top light performance.
It may reject a few rounds that experts with years of experience would not have rejected, but who cares?
You and I are not experts with years of experience.
Let someone else buy those diamonds.

I'd reject that one because it scores over 2.0 on the HCA.
It scores 3.7.
Yes GIA gave the cut an "Excellent" grade but GIA is very loosey goosey with its cut grading … which diamond cutters and sellers must love because it lets them save more weight of the rough than if it was cut better (not as deep).

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca



When you find some that scored under 2.0 get an Idealscope pic and compare it to this chart.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

 

[lioness]

May we convince you to buy from an online retailer such as Whiteflash or Brian Gavin? You'll probably find a stone with a better cut than the one you were offered, and it will probably cost less. What is the setting you're interested in?

 

[kenny]

Oh, and I noticed you posted a D color diamond, which is super duper expensive.
Go out and see diamonds in person of various colors, just make sure they are all graded by GIA or AGS so you can believe the grades.

After this if you still feel a D is worth all the extra money then by all means buy one … even if a PS poster tells you it's a waste of money, or you don't need that.
(Some here are very guilty of forcing THEIR color and clarity preferences onto others.)

If you don't see the difference till you get to a certain grade, or you can see the difference but feel the added cost is not worth it, get the color that you feel is worth the cost.
When you go down in color your budget will get you a larger diamond, or higher clarity or better cut or some combo of all 3.

 

[daz1]

thank you for the informative replies.

Actually I was going to buy from an online retailer (im based in UK by the way), but then I went to see some diamond shops and really liked a setting. It is the exact same setting as the tiffany setting with diamond band. I will ask the jeweler to change the diamond now as I am not happy about it being deep... It has to be an ideal shape for the amount of money im spending on it!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Too deep, for one thing. That makes it face up smaller, more like a .65 ct diamond. Don't go over 62.3% on depth.

And just an easy way for you to screen aside from the HCA, try to aim for these:

crown angle 34-35

pavilion angle 40.6-41.0

table 54-58

depth 60.0-62.3

But what was his price? We can tell you if it is fair or if you'd be overpaying. Easy to find Tiffany replicas here, too.

 

[lioness]

Do you have a photo of the setting?

 

[lioness]

Oh, and I noticed you posted a D color diamond, which is super duper expensive.
Go out and see diamonds in person of various colors, just make sure they are all graded by GIA or AGS so you can believe the grades.

After this if you still feel a D is worth all the extra money then by all means buy one … even if a PS poster tells you it's a waste of money, or you don't need that.
(Some here are very guilty of forcing THEIR color and clarity preferences onto others.)

If you don't see the difference till you get to a certain grade, or you can see the difference but feel the added cost is not worth it, get the color that you feel is worth the cost.
When you go down in color your budget will get you a larger diamond, or higher clarity or better cut or some combo of all 3.

+1000. Have you looked at colors yet? What is her preference?

 

[daz1]

Too deep, for one thing. That makes it face up smaller, more like a .65 ct diamond. Don't go over 62.3% on depth.

And just an easy way for you to screen aside from the HCA, try to aim for these:

crown angle 34-35

pavilion angle 40.6-41.0

table 54-58

depth 60.0-62.3

But what was his price? We can tell you if it is fair or if you'd be overpaying. Easy to find Tiffany replicas here, too.

he said £4000 for both diamond and the setting...
http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10016

 

[kenny]

And just an easy way for you to screen aside from the HCA, try to aim for these:

crown angle 34-35

pavilion angle 40.6-41.0

table 54-58

depth 60.0-62.3

DS, with all due respect offering ranges for those 4 specs is poor advice.

You could find diamonds that fall into all four of those ranges but score over 2.0 on the HCA.
I would reject such a diamond.

Those four specs interact in complex ways that we mortals without Ph.D.s in math won't recognize.
HCA is a clever math thingie takes factors in the interaction of these 4 numbers.

Below is one example of all 4 numbers falling in your ranges but the HCA score being over 2.0.
I found this HCA=2.5 quickly.
Maybe if I spent more time I'd find higher scores.

Use the HCA.
It only takes a couple seconds, it's brilliant, it's free, it works, and there are no imperfect ranges to memorize.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Kenny, it's just a suggestion for a preliminary screening tool. I do not have to enter all diamonds into the HCA to know which ones are going to work. And in fact, diamonds with the measurements you just put in the HCA can be fine if they have an idealscope image that proves their light return. It just helps to eliminate stones that are overly deep or that have angles that are too far from the acceptable range. I am sure you realize there are plenty of acceptable stones in the 2.0-2.5 range as the HCA itself is only a screener. I really gave him those measurements because if I see a diamond that has 62.7 for depth, I automatically eliminate it and don't need to bother putting it in the HCA because I know for sure I don't want a diamond that faces up smaller than it should.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

But what was his price? We can tell you if it is fair or if you'd be overpaying. Easy to find Tiffany replicas here, too.

he said £4000 for both diamond and the setting...
http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10016

Assuming the setting is high quality and platinum, I think your price is okay for retail if he can find you a better diamond. I am seeing a GIA Ex cut, .70 D VS2 at $3500 US and that setting should be no more than $2500-3000, and your total is $6716 US. Hearts and arrows level cut can cost up to $4400, but he probably can't access those. I would want to see a diameter of 5.7mm.

 

[daz1]

But what was his price? We can tell you if it is fair or if you'd be overpaying. Easy to find Tiffany replicas here, too.

he said £4000 for both diamond and the setting...
http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10016

Assuming the setting is high quality and platinum, I think your price is okay for retail if he can find you a better diamond. I am seeing a GIA Ex cut, .70 D VS2 at $3500 US and that setting should be no more than $2500-3000, and your total is $6716 US. Hearts and arrows level cut can cost up to $4400, but he probably can't access those. I would want to see a diameter of 5.7mm.

thank you... i've emailed him back telling him im not happy with the diamond being deep and facing up smaller than what it should be. I've asked specifically for a hearts and arrows diamond now and expect a diameter of at least 5.7mm. Just waiting for his reply now!

 

[daz1]

Of all the shapes round is the easiest when it comes to determining cut quality.
Two Steps:
1. HCA
2. Idealscope
This will guarantee top light performance.
It may reject a few rounds that experts with years of experience would not have rejected, but who cares?
You and I are not experts with years of experience.
Let someone else buy those diamonds.

I'd reject that one because it scores over 2.0 on the HCA.
It scores 3.7.
Yes GIA gave the cut an "Excellent" grade but GIA is very loosey goosey with its cut grading … which diamond cutters and sellers must love because it lets them save more weight of the rough than if it was cut better (not as deep).

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca



When you find some that scored under 2.0 get an Idealscope pic and compare it to this chart.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

Thanks for the tool! I have found some diamonds that score under 2.0 that are 0.7ct online. However in UK i see no diamond shops providing any idealscope images so I think I will just see the diamonds and and pick which one I think looks brightest

 

[daz1]

hello again guys! I will be cancelling the order from the jeweler i was originally getting. I have been searching and doing more research and I think I have found my ideal diamond which is within my budget of £4k including setting!

here it is:
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=6157986849

0.75ct (larger than what i was getting)
E
VS1 (Better)
triple excellent


HCA scores 0.8 which also shows its bang in the middle of AGS0 ideal

Hearts and arrows chart shows green bold which would indicate best examples of hearts and arrows.

Please let me know what you think as soon as possible as I think I will buy it before someone else does.

Thank you

 

[Roqsteady]

The proportions definitely look better than the first. Remember also that there's no real way to determine a "hearts and arrows" diamond unless you see it in a H&A viewer, or have images of the hearts and arrows to confirm its optical symmetry. Diamond cut to good proportions have a much higher likelihood of displaying this pattern, but unless the cutter aims to specifically cut for hearts and arrows, it won't be as precise as a "true" hearts and arrows diamond.

 

[daz1]

The proportions definitely look better than the first. Remember also that there's no real way to determine a "hearts and arrows" diamond unless you see it in a H&A viewer, or have images of the hearts and arrows to confirm its optical symmetry. Diamond cut to good proportions have a much higher likelihood of displaying this pattern, but unless the cutter aims to specifically cut for hearts and arrows, it won't be as precise as a "true" hearts and arrows diamond.

I hope it does have hearts and arrows but either way it should be nice and sparkly (touch wood).
Is there any way i can tell its a hearts and arrows without the H&A viewer?? There are no images of any diamonds on the site I am buying from.
I will reserve the diamond and have a viewing.
Thanks for your help

 

[daz1]

If anyone can find a better diamond deal please let me know! I would go to down to a f vs2 triple excellent.

im getting this diamond for £3365 and i believe it has the best proportions to all the ones I have searched for. With the setting I want total price to be £4000 or less including tax + delivery.

Will check back later to see what you find (if you can be bothered lol)

 

[Roqsteady]

There is no guaranteed way to tell - you have to see it under a scope. However, having hearts and arrows is secondary to making sure it has proportions for good light return. If you have that, then having precise faceting and optical symmetry (hearts and arrows) can give an extra pop factor (I'm not an expert, but I've read it's due to the perception of more virtual facets when facets are aligned exactly as they are supposed to).

Here's some branded H&A options I'll throw out there

.81 F VS2
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11403/

.76 F VS2 - OEC style, which is a different flavor of round, but ideal light return
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11876/

.76 F VS2
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063723.htm

.80 F VS1
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-default&id=17

.733 F VS2 - this is what I'd get if you were on a tight tight budget and needed to save some money.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...0.733-f-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104069795034

If you're willing to drop to a G, or clarity to eye clean SI1, or both - you could save more money or go up considerably in size to the .9 ct+ range. Just a thought.

 

[daz1]

I have managed to get hearts and arrows imaging for the diamond.





unfortunately they made a mistake and showed me the hearts twice in red, and didn't provide the arrows side.
is this good? let me know as I will buy it tomorrow if it is

 

[daz1]

is this hearts and arrows good? please let me know

thanks

 

[daz1]

What do u guys think?