Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certification

[hopeniks]

Hi everyone,

My boyfriend and I are looking for a sapphire for my engagement ring. After looking at various places online, we've decided to just go to Gemfix in SD and purchase the stone in the actual store. I have a few questions though, as most of the threads I've read on PS are about people purchasing stones online.

How does the certification work if I'm buying in the store? Let's say that I choose an untreated stone. If the stone is not already certified through AGL, what is the process? I'm thinking that Andrew would send it to AGL, but after AGL has inspected it, would they send it to me or Andrew again?
What if I choose a heated stone? Should I still send it to AGL to make sure it has only been heated and not diffused?

Is there anything else I need to know about purchasing a stone in a store vs. online?

Thank you.

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certifica

I would ask them to send the stone to AGL for you.

The deal would be that if the report comes back confirming the stone to be as it is being advertised (ie unheated/heat only etc) then you will cover the cost of the lab report (whether you end up purchasing the stone or not).

In the event that the report comes back saying that an 'unheated' stone is actually heated, then the store should agree to cover the cost of the report and the subsequent purchase or not would be up to you.

I would have the stone shipped by them to AGL and back again.

Please, remember that reports are NOT certificates. They are not guarantees - they are merely the opinion of a trained gemmologist using the knowledge and equipment available to them at the time the report is written.

Treatments are changing and being invented - as are synthetics - all the time and what is undetectable today may be detectable in 10 years time.

As far as testing for Be diffusion goes, unless the stone shows signs of high heat then you don't need to worry about it.

 

[T L]

Re: Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certifica

I would ask them to send the stone to AGL for you.

The deal would be that if the report comes back confirming the stone to be as it is being advertised (ie unheated/heat only etc) then you will cover the cost of the lab report (whether you end up purchasing the stone or not).

In the event that the report comes back saying that an 'unheated' stone is actually heated, then the store should agree to cover the cost of the report and the subsequent purchase or not would be up to you.

I would have the stone shipped by them to AGL and back again.

Please, remember that reports are NOT certificates. They are not guarantees - they are merely the opinion of a trained gemmologist using the knowledge and equipment available to them at the time the report is written.

Treatments are changing and being invented - as are synthetics - all the time and what is undetectable today may be detectable in 10 years time.

As far as testing for Be diffusion goes, unless the stone shows signs of high heat then you don't need to worry about it.

Ditto to what Pandora said.

I would also go further and say, what is detectable today may be undetectable in 10 years. For example, they might learn to diffuse stones with low heat, and it may be impossible to detect this in the near future. Often treatments get more and more difficult to detect, which is why when a lab report is issued during a time period that the treatment was detectable, it is a good asset for retaining the value of your gem.

 

[hopeniks]

Re: Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certifica

Pandora, thank you so much for your reply! It was extremely helpful, and I will do as you've said.

TL, you make a good point! Technology is getting better and better. That's good and bad, since that means technology for detecting treatments will get better, but that technology for treatments will get better as well.

I have another question: If I end up selecting a stone that is advertised as heat only, should I bother getting it certified? Pandora, you mentioned that I don't have to worry about testing for Be diffusion unless the stone shows signs of high heat, but are signs of high heat something I would be able to see if I was inspecting the stone? Or did you mean if AGL were inspecting the stone and found signs of high heat?

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certifica

It's not something that you would be able to do yourself unless you have a lot of experience with coloured stones and know exactly what to look for. You would need to send it to a lab.

However, most vendors will have checked this themselves - they don't want to overpay for Be diffused goods at their end either. Plus, their reputations ride on this kind of thing. You can always ask them.

One interesting thing is that it is illegal to do Be diffusion in Sri Lanka, plus the people in the trade are keen not to do so as they have seen the damage that it did when Be-diffused padparadascha hit the market. Sri Lanka is THE place for natural pad sapphires (some say it isn't a pad without SL origin). When the market was suddenly saturated at the end of the 90's with amazing peachy pink and orange sapphires, buyers became very suspicious, the stones lost a lot of value as people didn't want to buy and it hurt people badly in the gem districts.

So, Sri Lankan (Ceylon) stones are generally not Be diffused... but, many Thai buyers go out to Sri Lanka to buy stones and bring them back. Thailand is the centre for treatments and so stones from all over the world end up in their ovens etc.

Oh, the joys of gem treatments...

 

[T L]

Re: Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certifica

It's not something that you would be able to do yourself unless you have a lot of experience with coloured stones and know exactly what to look for. You would need to send it to a lab.

However, most vendors will have checked this themselves - they don't want to overpay for Be diffused goods at their end either. Plus, their reputations ride on this kind of thing. You can always ask them.

One interesting thing is that it is illegal to do Be diffusion in Sri Lanka, plus the people in the trade are keen not to do so as they have seen the damage that it did when Be-diffused padparadascha hit the market. Sri Lanka is THE place for natural pad sapphires (some say it isn't a pad without SL origin). When the market was suddenly saturated at the end of the 90's with amazing peachy pink and orange sapphires, buyers became very suspicious, the stones lost a lot of value as people didn't want to buy and it hurt people badly in the gem districts.

So, Sri Lankan (Ceylon) stones are generally not Be diffused... but, many Thai buyers go out to Sri Lanka to buy stones and bring them back. Thailand is the centre for treatments and so stones from all over the world end up in their ovens etc.
Oh, the joys of gem treatments...

I recently heard the following from a forum that discusses the lastest treatments on gemstones. Not sure how true it is, but I thought I would post as an FYI:

Quote:
"I would request a valid lab report, or get one if you already own, and have specific testing for Beryllium done on ANY nice blue sapphires, especially those sold as Ceylon or from Sri Lanka, if the sapphire shows any signs of heat treatment!

They have figured out a way to treat the overly dark blue sapphires from Nigeria and Australia using a type of Beryllium Treatment and make them become lighter and be an actual marketable and higher end sapphire. The ones I have seen were very nice top blue colors, not the super light blues although I would imagine they could do this from other stones as well. From what I gather the stones can NOT have any green in them, only the dark blue ones. So the Parti Sapphires from Aussie land would not work apparently, but the dark blue from there and Nigeria do. I am looking into those from other regions to find out, but so far it is just these two locales I am aware of they are using. The Sri Lanka buyers are buying them up as much as possible, treating them, and then selling them into the market as Ceylon or Sri Lanka blue sapphires and listing the treatment(s) as Heated or Heat Only."

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certifica

I'll make a few enquiries and see what I can find out...

 

[hopeniks]

Re: Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certifica

It's not something that you would be able to do yourself unless you have a lot of experience with coloured stones and know exactly what to look for. You would need to send it to a lab.

Okay, that's what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure.

TL, so if I would like to purchase any stone that is advertised as heat only, would you recommend getting it tested for Be diffusion? Or do you think I should only get it tested if it is advertised as Ceylon or Sri Lankan?

 

[T L]

Re: Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certifica

It's not something that you would be able to do yourself unless you have a lot of experience with coloured stones and know exactly what to look for. You would need to send it to a lab.

Okay, that's what I thought, but I just wanted to make sure.

TL, so if I would like to purchase any stone that is advertised as heat only, would you recommend getting it tested for Be diffusion? Or do you think I should only get it tested if it is advertised as Ceylon or Sri Lankan?

I think you should get a reputable lab report that tests for diffusion with any sapphire that has the following criteria

1) It is expensive (and expensive is a relative term).
2) It is going to be used in a sentimental piece of jewelry such as an e-ring.

If you know the stone is diffused and you're paying a fair price, that's a different story.

Corundum is one of those minerals that can be exposed to very high temperatures, so the sky is the limit on with what and how they can treat it, not to mention the myriad of synthetic corundum on the market being sold as natural.

 

[hopeniks]

Re: Buying a sapphire in a store - Questions about certifica

TL, thank you for your advice! I will get my stone certified since it will be for my e-ring.