Buying a round this week....forum has my head spinning!

[costanzaf2]

I'm in the market for a round brilliant and have been reaserching for the last two weeks. I can say that finding this site along with BN, James Allen and WF was good for me since I know its better than buying from the local guys but the more I read about sarins, angles, triple X's and etc the more confused I'm getting and I can't tell if I'm going to get the optimal deal???
I'm looking to spent 2.2K on the rock and want between .69-.73 kt with an ideal cut, G-H color, and SI1....Should I even bother going too crazy about other more intricate factors with such a small diamond? ( Sarin report???, crown angles). I know to look at the table factors to make sure the stone fits the right parameters, but after doing that is it true that almost any stone fitting those requiment will be a good deal on JA?
Mind you my gal didn't even want a engagement ring due to her not wanting me to spent $ but I'm going to do it no matter what. Needless to say she'll be suprised with anything but I want the best deal for the $ cuz she deserves it! Great site which has helped me a ton,,,but its time to pull the trigger! Thanks in Advance. PS need to buy soon before I ship out to Iraq!
PSS I'm leaning toward James Allen. Another worry is getting an SI1 that has naked eye inclusions as I have read some SI1s will and some won't? Will JA admit such a problem if I ask over the phone.

 

[cinnamon013]

Check these out:

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-292589.htm .633 G/SI1 Scores terrific on the HCA chart. $1853 Great looking AGS report - new stone, report dated 5/9/07. Slightly below your desired tcw, but has terrific measurements, and is a little cost savings for you as well.

 

[oshinbreez]

Hi. Welcome to PS.

I''m sure that if you called JA and asked about a SI1 stone being eye clean, the would tell you honestly if it is. Different vendors have different definitions as to "eye clean", so you might want to ask them what criteria they use to determine eye clean. I found this that would probably be a good stone. And with wire transfer the cost is $2210. Good luck in your search.

 

[costanzaf2]

Thanks oshinbreez for the good feedback,,,,I was just looking at the exact same diamond on JA as the one u pointed out. I just found the diamond search function on pricescope and it came up with that diamond. I guess the answer is that as long as the HCA scores well and you have good 4C''s then the diamond will be nice. ANy need to ask for a sarin on that JA stone. I see its $80 bucks cheaper thru pricescope tahn JA''s normal avenues.
PS Cinnomin thanks also but WF has no bands I like and I don''t have time to mix and match dealers. You guys ROCK, no pun intended !LOL

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 5/19/2007 12:17:22 PM
Author: oshinbreez
Hi. Welcome to PS.

I'm sure that if you called JA and asked about a SI1 stone being eye clean, the would tell you honestly if it is. Different vendors have different definitions as to 'eye clean', so you might want to ask them what criteria they use to determine eye clean. I found this that would probably be a good stone. And with wire transfer the cost is $2210. Good luck in your search.

Costanzaf, I agree you've both nailed the one, and sounds like you've found the search by cut db, which many of us recommend.

Provisos...using these strategies helps a lot. Supposedly, the HCA is to weed out bad performers, rather than to select. Alternately, without a selection to ogle, it's kinda challenging to weed out, but that's not the HCA's fault.

Re JA telling you honestly if it's eye clean, definitely ask them to....initially, they'll look maybe harder than you at the picture they've efficiently brought to the screen. Also...I'm not a professional...so maybe that's kinda enough, though that's not typically what I read here. Anyway, presuming they work with a partner to get access to the stone, ask them to look at it themselves, and see if they still think you'll like it...don't avoid this step. But, given your price point, and the resources on this site...that's the one to target, I'd agree.

Welcome to Pricescope.

 

[peridot83]

You don't need a sarin report. The sarin report are gets the #s for the HCA. Since both diamonds suggested already have the #s for the HCA, you're fine .

First, ask James Allen or Whiteflash, if the diamond is "eyeclean." Ask them to physically look at the diamond, and say from how far away they can see the inclusions (marks) on the diamond. From a foot away? 3 inches away? only with magnification?

What you may want from the James Allen Diamond is an idealscope image. If you look at the diamond cinnamon picked, it has an idealscope image, which basically shows how it reflects light. (red means reflecting light (awesome!), black is good because it provides a pattern, white is bad if it is NOT helping with the pattern.)

the cinnamon diamond has a great idealscope. If you want to be nitpicky, James Allen most likely can do an idealscope for you since they have the diamond to take a regular picture.

Good luck!!!!

 

[costanzaf2]

Awesome Info. AT least my 1 month salary will not go wasted!
I''ll call JA on Monday and requesty an idealscope of that .73 kt RB. All in all I don''t think I can go wrong since I''m already way ahead of the average diamond shopper who does little homewrok....You guys are great!

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 5/19/2007 12:40:30 PM
Author: peridot83
You don''t need a sarin report. The sarin report are gets the #s for the HCA. Since both diamonds suggested already have the #s for the HCA, you''re fine .

First, ask James Allen or Whiteflash, if the diamond is ''eyeclean.'' Ask them to physically look at the diamond, and say from how far away they can see the inclusions (marks) on the diamond. From a foot away? 3 inches away? only with magnification?

What you may want from the James Allen Diamond is an idealscope image. If you look at the diamond cinnamon picked, it has an idealscope image, which basically shows how it reflects light. (red means reflecting light (awesome!), black is good because it provides a pattern, white is bad if it is NOT helping with the pattern.)

the cinnamon diamond has a great idealscope. If you want to be nitpicky, James Allen most likely can do an idealscope for you since they have the diamond to take a regular picture.

Good luck!!!!

Peridot makes excellent points, adding on that, once the diamond is in hand, get the IS.

Two other points...

1) I personally wouldn''t forget to try to get crown & pavilion data. I believe JA uses OGI to measure this, and while it may not be as good as the best sarin, a little controversy here is that even the GIA data is rounded, so having two sets of figures to triangulate around can''t hurt.

2) Connoisseurs here will agree the IS will help a lot. Depending, if you can share it here, smart guys can analyze that for you, making GIA data and HCA info count less. But my point here in #2 is that, given the factors of a tight time frame, an experienced vendor who''s sold to me with satisfaction, and JA having a long standing good track record in this environment, which he & we can be thankful for, (presuming mistakes everyone makes gets chalked up to lessons learned), I think you''ll be fine...but I wouldn''t cut out the steps to make it so.

Regards,

 

[costanzaf2]

Well I will follow all that advice (try to get....idealscope, crown + pav data, eye clean). I have to buy the stone by this Friday so I have ample time I think.
The stone cinnimon found is great! Is there a big difference betx .63 and .73? I mean the fire on that ideal cut might make up for its size and will WF send that stone it to JA? JA has the setting I want...
PS she''s gonna flip out when she get this. Thank God for pricescope lol Does the site take donations for server $$?

 

[cinnamon013]

Date: 5/19/2007 1:13:35 PM
Author: costanzaf2
Well I will follow all that advice (try to get....idealscope, crown + pav data, eye clean). I have to buy the stone by this Friday so I have ample time I think.
The stone cinnimon found is great! Is there a big difference betx .63 and .73? I mean the fire on that ideal cut might make up for its size and will WF send that stone it to JA? JA has the setting I want...
PS she''s gonna flip out when she get this. Thank God for pricescope lol Does the site take donations for server $$?

Here are the specs on the one I found:
Item Code: AGS-8550804
G/SI1
. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 0.633
. Depth %: 61.1
. Table %: 56.5
. Crown Angle: 34.7
. Crown %: 15.1
. Star : 51
. Pavilion Angle: 40.6
. Pavilion %: 42.7
. Lower Girdle %: 75
. Girdle: Thin to Medium
. Measurements: 5.51-5.53X3.37
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

AGS0 Ideal polish, symmetry, and it''s and H&A ACA!



Here are the specs on the one you found:
Item Number: 936525
H SI1
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.72
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: SI1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 61.7%
Table: 54%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.75*5.79*3.56

Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown %: 16.50
pavilion Angle: 40.4°
pavilion %: 42.50


If you are a #s guy, then this one is GIA cert (AGS might be preferred by some), and GIA very good symmetry and Excellent polish. And it is an H color. Not saying it won''t face up as white, but I can assure you the H&A ACA G SI1 will. I happen to have a WF one that is G SI1 and .831. It looks absolutely huge and is verrrrry purty. This WF one is "by the specs" a better stone, I think. The size difference, IMO, is so small you wouldn''t notice.

As far as one sending to the other, and who would set - just give them a call. I would think that if you have a setting from JA and a stone from WF, then you would have JA send the setting to WF. Then WF would set their stone in your purchased setting. Not the other way around.

 

[kcoursolle]

It looks like you are getting great advice here. I just wanted to add that I''ll keep you in my thoughts when you are in Iraq.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 5/19/2007 3:54:03 PM
Author: kcoursolle
It looks like you are getting great advice here. I just wanted to add that I'll keep you in my thoughts when you are in Iraq.

Ditto that.

Also, one more JA option at 2290 wire priced, a teeny bit smaller, two grades better for color.

Of the JA options, get their opinion on both, I'd say.

 

[costanzaf2]

Is this decent,,,I found it ob the PS search and its an H&A...???
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131&item=936509
Is it better than the previous JA stone that regular guy posted?? Is has the ideal scope which I can't really analyze Thanks !!!!!!!!!

 

[Regular Guy]

Costanza,

I think you're effectively pushing at the margins. If you consider SI2, that adds one more to your set of options you certainly can consider, and I don't see any others like it (though some people, rightly or wrongly, exclude them from their set of options to consider).

IS looks good to me. Review here yourself, reading the several options on the left side under "using the Idealscope."

Ask about eye-cleanness. To the extent it's a yes or no (John at WF has said their options that are SI2 are "eye-cleanish"), just ask if they understand if it's eye clean or not. If they say, yes, you ostensibly have 30 days to return it...though...I take it with your deadline, you don't want to get into returns.

In general, it's said most SI2s are not eye clean. But..with some vendors....inasmuch as they are hand selected...the odds can be flipped, where most of them are eye-clean. In the case of JA...I have no idea what to assume about their SI2 options.

Regards,

(edited to add) given your circumstances, on second review, I might reject it. Unless an expert comes on board to reassure, from the cert, one of the characteristics making this an SI2 is at the edge, and seems to be marked as a cavity. This could be it seems to me a structural issue. Although instructions could be given to their setter to avoid that area...I personally haven't had good experience with asking Jim to pass along instructions to his setter (Jim's in MD, and I believe his setter is in Texas). Of course, using Pricescope....etc., maybe he can reassure you they'll get it right. I didn't try to hit him over the head with such instructions, but in my case, I had told them in writing to avoid having the prongs cover the inscription, but they did it anyway. Possibly you'd get lucky. But...regardless of this setting issue, the possibility of a cavity near the edge causing a structural problem would have me worried, unless I heard from an expert not to worry.

 

[costanzaf2]

OK here''s the deal,,,,here, I got the ideal scopr for the following diamond that reg guy suggested.....cost on PS 2210
Item Number: 936525
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.72
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: SI1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 61.7%
Table: 54%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.75*5.79*3.56

Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown %: 16.50
pavilion Angle: 40.4°
pavilion %: 42.50

NOW I also found a sweeter deal (i think) this am on pricescope search this one is $2260 and 1 grade higher in color and a higher GIA cut of excellent..........Jennifer at JA said it was a steal at that price and its that low because its someoneleses price but she would honor it. She is confirming the eye clean and sayd that that cut is great and doesn''t even really need an idealscope......PLEASE ADVISE, its either this or the 1 above! Thanks,

Item Number: 936529
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.73
Cut: Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 62.7%
Table: 53%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Thin to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.75*5.80*3.62

Crown Angle: 34.0°
Crown %: 15.50
pavilion Angle: 41.2°
pavilion %: 43.50

 

[costanzaf2]

0.73 G SI1 3.2-VG vg-vg-vg-vg 0 62.7% 53% 34° 41.2° thn-sl thi no ex vg no 5.75*5.80*3.62 GIA

pricescope data on the second stone from above

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 5/21/2007 7:25:29 PM
Author: costanzaf2
OK here''s the deal,,,,here, I got the ideal scopr for the following diamond that reg guy suggested.....cost on PS 2210

I recommended it, Oshinbreez found it, I''d say go with this one.

Re the other...a general rule of thumb I can live with....unless you have AGS0 telling you otherwise, if over 3 (easily, maybe 2.5, too) on the HCA...rule it out...and after ruling it out....for those that are remaining...then listen to your vendor''s recommendations.

Regards,

 

[costanzaf2]

Ira,
So your saying that the one .72 H SI1 stone is better.
or this one? how can the 1 above be better when the one below has a better cut and color?
0.72
Cut: Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Sorry,,,,for the ?''s

 

[door knob solitaire]

Sounds like the crew has taken care of you...you have been through the crash course in diamond ology.

I read your title to this thread as you were "BUYING US A ROUND-as in beverage"...well sir, it is us that should be buying you a round! (as in beverage..not in carbon!!)

Wanted to chime in and thank you, sincerely for your service. Please login in while there and get intouch with your Diamond Peeps.

Gods Speed in returning to your sweetie,

DKS

 

[costanzaf2]

Thanks for the kind words.............I always tell people , DON''T BLAME THE TROOPS FOR FOLLOWING ORDERS, blame the politicians who put us in these crappy situations. All in all we serve because many brave folks died for our freedoms and it woun''t be right to let their sacrifice go in vein!

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 5/21/2007 7:25:29 PM
Author: costanzaf2

..........Jennifer at JA said it was a steal at that price and its that low because its someoneleses price but she would honor it. She is confirming the eye clean and sayd that that cut is great and doesn''t even really need an idealscope

Thanks for pursuing this.

1) I forgot it was a better color
2) Please...ask Jennifer why she says it does not need an idealscope. Really...please ask her. And tell us what she says.
3) Read here about GIA excellent
4) I would have HCA trump GIA''s cut grade system...but don''t trust me...do ask Jennifer why she likes it better.
5) Unless convincing...I''d use HCA as it''s designed...ruling out options not conforming to good principles of cut...i.e. being over 3 (definitely).
6) I would rule out a D, too.
7) You could get an idealscope, present it here (for the new G), and that could convince us (or others more talented here).
Winningest order: AGS0 trumps Idealcope/ASET trumps HCA trumps GIA cut grade.
9) So says me.

Regards,

 

[costanzaf2]

Ira I have no clue how I posted the wrong info for stone #2 it should have an item # of JA 1038431........it was on pricescope earlier now its gone?
I cross refenced the GIA report plugged in the #'s and it has a totolvis perf of 2.3 (very good) on the pricescope halloway cut advisor...

 

[surfgirl]

Date: 5/21/2007 8:45:00 PM
Author: costanzaf2
Thanks for the kind words.............I always tell people , DON''T BLAME THE TROOPS FOR FOLLOWING ORDERS, blame the politicians who put us in these crappy situations. All in all we serve because many brave folks died for our freedoms and it woun''t be right to let their sacrifice go in vein!

Amen to that! One doesn''t have to support the war to support the troops. I hope your soon-to-be-fiance loves the ring you select for her, be safe, and let us know how you''re doing. Oh yeah, and HAND PHOTOS on the "Show Me The Ring" thread before you leave!

 

[Regular Guy]

I see it on JA's site, and have confirmed what you've confirmed. Probably it's good. The G aspect is definitely better. If not given a choice to have an idealscope, and take her word...

that that cut is great and doesn't even really need an idealscope

vs. stick with the bird in the hand, I'd probably then go with the new option. But, how much better to be able to both trust, and verify. It would be better if they didn't do you the favor to avoid you the trouble of not seeing the idealscope. With friends like this, I don't need enemies. Others don't complain about this, but I've experienced their bedside manner as doing a favor for you. It's business. The stone is after all semi-borderline, i.e, in the published HCA it is still only VG...but later research suggests it can be seen as on par with any HCA excellent. See if you can get an idealscope, too, besides their good will.

Sounds like you're on your way.

(edited to add.)..one complication...if you use things like numbers and HCA to judge...though this gets into a bit of Princess Bride swordplay logic....it's possible that the new diamond will still be better, but have a not ideal Idealscope...with the theory being that diamonds scoring between 2 - 3 on the HCA still don't have great idealscopes, but that this is not visually noticeable to people who have binocular vision. Now, whether or not this was or was not strategically on JA's plate in making the offer to judge for you remains to be guessed about...but this is another factor...to factor in. Maybe Garry, or another HCA/idealscope user could weigh in on this...