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Buying a lower colour grade stone with blue fluorescence- which stone to buy?

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bill1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
3
Greetings all
Have been reading your site for a while now and it has been invaluable educating me about diamonds. Thankyou

Am at the stage of purchasing a diamond. Am from Australia and purchase prices seem quite different here although this site has given me a great guide. I understand that all the Argyle diamonds from here actually travel overseas for grading and then come back which is a little disappointing as it would be nice to have something local.

Anyway on with the question. My budget for a stone is about US$5500. I have decided on a GIA EEE 1.15-13 G-J Vs2-SI1 stone. I realise thats a huge range but I guess a start. I intend on having the stone set in a platinum setting.

My question is this. Having looked at some of the posts on fluorescence (fluor)it seems that a stone with strong blue fluor may actually appear whiter. For example a jeweller mentioned that a J stone with strong fluor will actually appear less yellow than a J without. Do people agree with this? Would i be better with a slightly smaller stone of higher colour?

Recently I went and looked at a variety of unset stones from L though D to try and get a better idea of what the differences are but just felt more confused. To my eye the H stone I saw seemed poles apart from a G with strong fluor that i saw next colourwise.

I guess my concern about the colour stems from the fact that the stone will be set against platinum and I am concerned about the yellow showing. Previously I had thought that the yellow was only visible in stones J onwards but now I am less sure.

Below are a range of stones I have recieved prices on locally but converted to US$. Any tips would be appreciated immensely.
These are stones that I would have to purchase online though unseen.
It seems that the cost of customs duties and tax makes bringing a stone in from o/s uneconomical.

All GIA
1.12 I VS2 EX/EX/EX No fluorescence for US$4700

1.18ct G SI1 EX/EX/EX Strong fluorescence - US$5064
1.16ct G SI1 EX/EX/EX No fluorescence - US$5484

1.27 J VS1 Medium fluorescence - US$5380

1.22 J SI1 Strong fluorescence - US$4545

1.23 J VS2 No fluorescence - US$5259


1.30 I SI1 Medium Blue fluorescence - US$5535


Thanks muchly





 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Take a look at this video on color with ideal cut round brilliants. http://vimeo.com/3288695

For the stones you mentioned, can you give the table, depth%, crown and pavilion angles, girdle thickness, and star and lower girdle facet numbers? These factor will determine the cut of the stones.

EDT:
Fluor only appears in presence of UV light source so that is not in all lighting conditions.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/26/2009 5:34:47 AM
Author:bill1



Greetings all
Have been reading your site for a while now and it has been invaluable educating me about diamonds. Thankyou

Am at the stage of purchasing a diamond. Am from Australia and purchase prices seem quite different here although this site has given me a great guide. I understand that all the Argyle diamonds from here actually travel overseas for grading and then come back which is a little disappointing as it would be nice to have something local.

Anyway on with the question. My budget for a stone is about US$5500. I have decided on a GIA EEE 1.15-13 G-J Vs2-SI1 stone. I realise thats a huge range but I guess a start. I intend on having the stone set in a platinum setting.

My question is this. Having looked at some of the posts on fluorescence (fluor)it seems that a stone with strong blue fluor may actually appear whiter. For example a jeweller mentioned that a J stone with strong fluor will actually appear less yellow than a J without. Do people agree with this? Would i be better with a slightly smaller stone of higher colour?

Recently I went and looked at a variety of unset stones from L though D to try and get a better idea of what the differences are but just felt more confused. To my eye the H stone I saw seemed poles apart from a G with strong fluor that i saw next colourwise.

I guess my concern about the colour stems from the fact that the stone will be set against platinum and I am concerned about the yellow showing. Previously I had thought that the yellow was only visible in stones J onwards but now I am less sure.

Below are a range of stones I have recieved prices on locally but converted to US$. Any tips would be appreciated immensely.
These are stones that I would have to purchase online though unseen.
It seems that the cost of customs duties and tax makes bringing a stone in from o/s uneconomical.

All GIA
1.12 I VS2 EX/EX/EX No fluorescence for US$4700

1.18ct G SI1 EX/EX/EX Strong fluorescence - US$5064



1.16ct G SI1 EX/EX/EX No fluorescence - US$5484

1.27 J VS1 Medium fluorescence - US$5380

1.22 J SI1 Strong fluorescence - US$4545



1.23 J VS2 No fluorescence - US$5259





1.30 I SI1 Medium Blue fluorescence - US$5535





Thanks muchly





Hi Bill,

Yes some do believe medium blue and up blue fluorescence can help a lower colour diamond face up a little whiter.

With the diamonds I need more info please, so if you could post the -

depth%
table%
crown and pavilion angles
polish and symmetry grades
girdle thickness
diameter in mm
lower girdle%
star%

Then we can go from there.
 

atroop711

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,844
Hi Bill

I have a stone with strong blue fluorescence. It''s an H in color and looks very white even when placed next to my sister''s E color stone.
 

whitby_2773

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
2,656
hi bill :)

perhaps re color, the first thing you need to consider is how color sensitive you and your fiancee to be are. some people dont mind a yellow tinge. some cant stand it. having done a lot of work in design and interior decorating, and having a fairly acutely trained eye, i can clearly see the color differences between stones 2 or more grades apart. for modern settings in platinum, i stay F or above for color, as i feel you *can* see the difference in tint. altho fluorescence will give a somewhat whiter appearance face up, it wont help much when looking at the stone sideways through a setting. if you go for a prong setting, especially if that setting is in platinum or white gold, you''ll see the color.

for heirloom or antique settings, however, especially if you go with yellow gold, i think some ''warmth'' can look very nice. i have a GORGEOUS old stone in a yellow gold setting (platinum prongs - but yellow gold shank) which is a K color, and *very* lively and sparkly - and i love the yellow. it doesnt come across as murky; rather, it comes across as having a golden glow to it which i find rich and gorgeous. having said that, tho, i''ve seen some G/H color stones which, next to an E color stone, have looked gray and somewhat dirty. if you want to go with a lower grade of color, i''d suggest a well cut stone in a bezel setting. that way the stone reflects back as much light as possible, and the bezel stops the ''sideways'' view of the stone which reveals its lower color.

so i''m planning on setting my stone in the attached setting. this also comes in a platinum setting which you might like. both would be perfect settings for a well cut, lower color grade stone.

just a thougt.... :)

good luck!

calebmeyerc3.jpg
 

bill1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
3
Hey guys
Apologies for the delay in responding
Thanks very much for all your responses. Have watched the video you suggested Stone-Cold and it was most informative!
Whitby- I like the look of that setting - definately food for thought!

I am now thinking that the lowest colour wise I would like to go is H or I at a stretch.

The diamond dealer I have been contacting has been a bit difficult and has now told me that many of the diamonds he quoted me on are no longer available.

I noticed also that only the G stone is laser inscribed- is this a problem? Would I then need to have a stone that is not inscribed regraded to assess authenticity on reciept?

At present these are the prices and details I have on two stones. Any other suggestions for round brilliant stones under the US$5500 mark would be appreciated.

1.18 G SI1 $5461

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.71 - 6.78 x 4.20 mm

Carat Weight: 1.18 carat
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 62.3%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 36.0°
Crown Height: 16.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Faint
Comments: Additional clouds are not shown.

1.13 H VS2 $5347

Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.80 - 6.82 x 4.03 mm

Carat Weight: 1.13 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS2
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 59.2%
Table: 61%
Crown Angle: 33.5°
Crown Height: 13.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted
Culet: None
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Bill with that video, use it as a guide only as colour perception can vary between individuals as can computer monitors. Out of the two diamonds you listed, I like the first one best, you would need to make sure it is eyeclean to your standards, it is within fiery ideal cut range ( FIC) which means you might see extra fire coming from the diamond if the lighting is conducive. However you might personally prefer a diamond with angles closer to what we call near Tolkowsky which are believed to be good all rounders.

The second has a table which is a bit large for my personal preference. Laser inscriptions are not an essential, not all diamonds are inscribed thus.
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
12,578
I am the proud owner of an M colour diamond with med blue flourescence and its looks white enough for me. Obviously if I put it next to an F colour diamond its going to show its colour, but when I am wearing it all I see is pretty white sparkle.
 

bill1

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
3
Thankyou Lorlei. I found the differences in colour were shown more clearly on the video than i was able to see in the flesh.

In terms of being eyeclean to my standards, are most dealers usually happy to provide high res photos? I only had the reference no for that stone to use the GIA site so havent yet been able to see the inclusions as marked.

I guess without that its hard for you to comment on price?

Thanks for your time.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/30/2009 5:50:57 AM
Author: bill1
Thankyou Lorlei. I found the differences in colour were shown more clearly on the video than i was able to see in the flesh.

In terms of being eyeclean to my standards, are most dealers usually happy to provide high res photos? I only had the reference no for that stone to use the GIA site so havent yet been able to see the inclusions as marked.

I guess without that its hard for you to comment on price?

Thanks for your time.
Usually yes, many of the PS vendors with in house diamonds will be able to provide magnified photos of the diamond in question plus give you a detailed description of its ' eyecleanliness.' The important thing is to be as clear as possible with the vendor concerning your expectations so you are both on the same page. For example, if you don't want to see any inclusions from any angle at close scrutiny, then make sure you tell them that. Also don't go by the plotting diagram of the report to judge whether a diamond is in fact eyeclean or not, the only way to know for sure is to ask the vendor to inspect it for you.

Prices - doing a quick search for other online diamonds of similar specs, the price looks comparable.
And you are most welcome - glad to be of assistance!
 
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