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Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 ct

R

Reptar

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
34
I have a budget of $4500 and this is what Pricescope's search has yielded given my criteria. Size is relatively important because I think her social circle is used to seeing 1+ carats.

Code: 
   Carat    Clr Clarity  Depth	Table   Lab      Cut	HnA	Measurements	  HCA     $/Carat	 Price
(A) 0.89	 H	VS2	   60.60%	58%	 AGS0	 Ideal	N	6.21x6.25x3.78	 0.8-EX	$4,640 	$4,130 
(B) 0.85	 H	VS2	   61.50%	57%	 AGS0	 Ideal	Y	6.08x6.13x3.75	 1.6-EX	$5,273 	$4,472 
(C) 0.84	 G	SI1	   61.40%	57%	 AGS0	 Ideal	Y	6.06x6.08x3.73	 1.6-EX	$5,342 	$4,477

And respective links:
(A) http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1470780.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131
(B) http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2777281.htm
(C) http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2772492.htm

- For diamond (A) the light performance map on the AGS cert shows quite a bit of asymmetry. I don't know exactly how noticeable this would be and if it would affect eye-cleanliness.
- In the hearts image for diamond (B) the lower right heart seems a touch larger.
- Diamond (C) seems to have a lot of specks.

I guess in this case I'd go for (B) but of course I've never done this before so I'm open to any suggestions or comments. I am willing to increase my budget a bit if there is a substantial jump in value I could obtain by doing so in terms of size. I did not really consider the results from Eternity Diamonds because I have not read enough positive feedback to feel comfortable buying from them.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

I don't see anything wrong with (A)'s CG ASET, but I would ask JA for an actual IS image to double check regardless.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Does it have to be a round? Does she like any other shapes? Any other shape and we can get you a 1 carat for that price without sacrificing color or clarity or anything much really.

Ovals especially face up large and are a great bang for the buck in general.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

I've requested an IS image and they said I should get it in about 3 days.

As for the shape, I think she would prefer round. How much more would it be to get something that almost looks like 1 ct?
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Reptar|1332992921|3158883 said:
I've requested an IS image and they said I should get it in about 3 days.

As for the shape, I think she would prefer round. How much more would it be to get something that almost looks like 1 ct?
Click to expand...

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1452958.asp 6,200 for 1 carat. I SI

BUT... and I would call JA and put this on hold IMMEDIATELY: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Very%20Good-Cut-Round-Diamond-1477428.asp It gets 1.7 on the HCA. It's a needle in a haystack diamond. Ask them to send you an Idealscope image and post it. THIS will look pretty much like a 1 carat. It's a great stone.

In these sizes you should be fine with I color especially when set. This will be a bright stone and face up very white. Remember just because you can see color doesn't mean it has to bother you. Seeing color is just your eyes working. Being bothered by it is a mental thing.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

6200 is probably out of my budget but the other one I can do. I've put a hold on it and requested an idealscope image. Is there a significant markup because it's exactly 0.9 ct? As opposed to a 0.89 or 0.94? I guess those would be harder to find.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Reptar|1333000828|3158936 said:
6200 is probably out of my budget but the other one I can do. I've put a hold on it and requested an idealscope image. Is there a significant markup because it's exactly 0.9 ct? As opposed to a 0.89 or 0.94? I guess those would be harder to find.
Click to expand...

Bingo. Hard to find. I'm glad you put it on hold. Now if the idealscope turns out good... I don't think you'll find anything better in budget.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Interesting near policy violating post from the vendor no one knows anything about.

That said, the 86 pointer is very nice. I like the AGS0. There might be a slight eye visible difference in spread with that 90 pointer, but it's a great back up if the IS bombs on the 90 pointer.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Without having Idealscope images yet, how would you compare the 86pt to (A) from the original post?
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Reptar said:
Without having Idealscope images yet, how would you compare the 86pt to (A) from the original post?
Click to expand...

Not likely to look all that different based on the numbers and CG ASET. Can't really go wrong with either. Depending on how good your eyes are you may be able to differentiate the color if they are side by side. IMO the table size will probably be the more visible difference of all the attributes if seen side by side, but again the difference is very small and I don't think one is necessarily better than the other.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

I have received a response from JA. Diamond (A) in my original post is no longer available.

I did, however, get the IdealScope for http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Very%20Good-Cut-Round-Diamond-1477428.asp

1477428id.jpg

Here what JA said about it:
I'm happy to say that diamond 1477428 has excellent fire, brilliance, and scintillation! It's the brightest of your two options, and while the untrained eye will likely not notice this, it also has a higher/whiter "I" color. It has an excellent spread and faces larger than your other option. This diamond is perfectly eye clean, has an excellent cut, and will provide you with an excellent value.
Click to expand...

Any opinions?
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Should I be concerned about the shallowness of the diamond? Is the depth usually larger than the table of an ideal/excellent?
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Adding the image of the diamond...

NR3596-27pic.jpg
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

IS looks fine, so it's unlikely to be an ugly stone. IMO it'll look noticeably different than the options you posted earlier, but whether you'll like one over the other really depends on your personal tastes. In general, well cut stones with relatively shallow crowns tend to display more brilliance at the expense of fire.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

When you say it'll look noticeably different than the others, do you mean in size or other characteristics?

I have a couple concerns but I don't know if I they should be concerns:

As I understand it, the table (61%) of this diamond wouldn't yield an AGS0 even though it is a GIA Ex and HCA 1.7.
It's an SI1 that lists Crystal, Feather as the characteristics on the GIA report.

All these things considered, would this diamond still be a good buy?

Some of the other diamond I've posted are sold now but I'm not in too much of a rush either.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

I mean in terms of how the stone most likely handles light based on the numbers. IMO well cut stones with relatively shallow crowns and bigger tables tend to appear brighter/whiter whereas stones with relatively steeper crowns and smaller tables tend to look more like disco balls. Your original picks are closer to the middle ground.

Based on the images I think it's most likely eye clean and well cut. It's a good buy if it's what you are looking for.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

While everything I read about how the larger table will cause less fire and more brilliance, it seems like HCA says the opposite for this diamond:

Light Return: Very Good
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Very Good
Spread: Excellent
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

The HCA is a rejection tool. While it does make some nominal predictions it's simply drawing a chalk outline of the diamond based on a few data points and then generalizing based on that outline. It's a useful tool but the grading report allows more definite conclusions, and the ideal-scope provides meaningful appearance info beyond the grading report.

By the basic numbers I predict the diamond will be very bright. This table/crown-angle combination isn't the most optimum for dispersion but the 75% lower halves could generate colored flashes that are larger than normal for this configuration. The ideal-scope shows robust light return, in-agreement with its primary angles.

The 61% table would not stop it from being AGS0. The AGSL cutting charts indicate 61/32.5/41.2 as candidate proportions for ideal light performance... so it could be close, depending on how GIA rounded the averaged angles.

0.9x diamonds are not in-abundance. Good find by Gypsy for the budget.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

JA has an excellent return policy so you can always return it if you are not happy, but with the information you have about the stone, it looks like it will perform well :twirl:
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

The 0.90 is not going to suffer from leakage. The ideal-scope bears that out; it's nicely representative of that angular combination (41.0/32.5) with good cut-precision. The larger table size and lower crown will result in visual properties of a slightly different character than traditional "ideal" makes. But all evidence points to it being a very bright stone.

The 0.8x options you linked are more traditional "ideal" makes with table sizes in the 50s and crown heights near 15%. They do have AGS Laboratories "Ideal" grading reports if that is a factor in your deliberations (you mentioned ideal in the thread's title).
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Ideal or Excellent ratings are okay by me. I think all else being equal (or at least indistinguishable) I'd prefer to go for size but I don't really have a gauge as to the visible difference in size of the 3 choices.

Would you have a preference between the 3?
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

As a trade member I can provide education and discuss technical matters, but the forum rules don't allow me to recommend for-or-against. All of the choices you're looking at have strong positive attributes.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Understood. Could you at least tell from your experience whether the 0.9 will look significantly larger to the naked eye?
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

The 0.9 carat diamond is a different 'flavor' of diamond if you will, it's a 60/60 stone. Some people love them, some don't.

It really is personal preference.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

The 0.85 from WF measures 6.07 x 6.10

The 0.90 from JA measures 6.30 x 6.32

About .2mm difference, which I believe is perceptible to the eye.

diamonds_.02_7.0.gif

Here is a pic that shows some size differences. While they don't compare .85 to .90, the difference between the .90 and the 1.0 is also .2mm on this chart.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

I'd go for the 90 point stone. It has a different flavor of light return. But it's like asking which is better chocolate or vanilla. The untrained eye without a comparison stone next to it will see a very bright white stone and the spread difference will be noticeable. Side by side it will be exactly like chosing vanilla or chocolate in an ice cream shop. You'll notice that there is a difference but which you like is up to you individually.

But all you really want is the biggest best quality ice cream cone for your budget. And QUALITY wise, the stones you are considering are all similar. So I'd say... get the bigger cone.

Great as always to see John posting, as his posts are so wonderfully helpful and insightful.
 
Re: Buying a diamond: Round, Ideal, SI+, H+, as close to 1 c

Thanks for all the helpful responses.

I've read up on 60/60 stones and it seems like there is some controversy about them... but from the posts here, this one is cut well and should be a good performer that's brighter than it is fiery.

Should I be concerned about fish-eye with those angles?
 
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