Buy a diamond without a cert?

[dunmore]

I am going to see a jeweller tomorrow. He comes highly recommended from a colleague who has dealt with him for years. He has a 1.38 ct. F color. SI2 (eye clean) that he is showing me. However this diamond has not been independently graded. He tells me that diamonds with certs cost 30-40% more. Is this true?

The price on this stone is great, $3500, but should I be concerned? I''m a novice and probably cannot tell the quality of the cut just by looking at it. Ideally I''d like to run the stone through the Cut Advisor but with no cert this isn''t possible.

Is there anyway I, as a lay person, can judge the cut quality visually? Or do I need him to get Sarin reports or anything else and crunch the numbers?

I appreciate all of your help. You guys have been great with my other questions.

Thanks!

 

[mdx]

GDay
If you are dealing with a jeweler where you can touch look and feel the diamond it’s not critical (but preferable) that you buy a certified diamond. What is important, is having the diamond appraised by an independent qualified appraiser. Definitely not an In-house gemologist. A good jeweler will have no problem with submitting the diamond to an appraiser of YOUR choice.
To assist you in your initial choose why not consider purchasing an Ideal-Scope. This clever inexpensive devise will quickly eliminate poor performers. (you don’t want to send truckloads to the appraiser)
Johan
Melbourne Diamond Exchange Ltd

 

[TooMuchInformation]

I'm far from an expert. Okay, wait. I'm far from an amateur. Regardless, I'll share my opinions.

"He tells me that diamonds with certs cost 30-40% more. Is this true?"

I wouldn't think so. Given that independant certification through some place like GIA, including shipping charges, shouldn't cost more than about $300 (total guess) plus some time, I faily to see how a 30% or 40% price increase would be reasonable.

"should I be concerned?"

Well, that's hard to say. You'll probably get what you pay for. If $3500 seems too good to be true, then it probably is. Personally, I wouldn't purchase a diamond without some sort of reliable and trusted independant certification.

"Is there anyway I, as a lay person, can judge the cut quality visually?"

Well, when you look at the stone, you can see how you like it. Does this mean that you can judge the quality of the cut? Probably not. But, you can at least gather some qualitative data by comparing it with other stones that you may or may not have seen, though this seems pretty inexact at best. The easy answer really depends on how well you know diamonds.

Take my advice with a grain of salt. Wait for someone who *really* knows that they're talking about to answer, but regardless, I hope my opinions are helpful to you!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/24/2004 2:04:10 AM dunmore wrote:











He tells me that diamonds with certs cost 30-40% more. Is this true?

The price on this stone is great, $3500, but should I be concerned?

Is there anyway I, as a lay person, can judge the cut quality visually? Or do I need him to get Sarin reports or anything else and crunch the numbers?

----------------

A stone doesn't cost 30-40% more just because it has a grading report. The grading report is only a few hundred dollars.

The price on this stone is waaaaaaaay too low. As a basis for comparison, I have a 1.24 H, SI2 that is AGS0 graded, and it was listed for $5989 prior to PS discount. Yours is 2 grades higher, 14 points heavier, and that much cheaper? I hear alarms in my head on that one.

The way you can take a chance....if you want to.....is to make the sale contingent upon satisfactory results by an independent appraiser. Get a good return policy (full refund -- not exchange -- for any reason within the specified period - shoot for 7-10 days), and take it to an independent appraiser.

I'd bet large amounts that the stone will grade lower, and that isn't a problem in and of itself. As long as the price you're paying is proportional to what the stone IS and not the paper, then it's fine.

 

[valeria101]

A lab report on that would be $100. If this is 30% of the price, get it! Otherwise, pass...

 

[fire&ice]

Price seems low. How did he get the diamond? Perhaps on the secondary market?

One doesn't need a cert for anything. One must be sure that what is being sold is what is being represented. A cert can help bypass this to a certain extent.

If you like the looks of the stone & have seen others to compare it to, perhaps it may be worth your while to have it appraised by an independent appraiser. If the jeweler is on the up & up, he shouldn't care.

Edited to add: Is the stone eye clean?

 

[Hest88]

There are jewelers I'd be fine buying a non-cert diamond from, but are you actually comfortable enough with this guy and trust his knowledge enough to do so? I agree that your best bet is just to pay $100 to get it appraised.

 

[icelady]

Hi Dunmore,

I just had my RB 1.37 F certified by the GIA Gem Lab in Carlsbad, CA. It cost $118 plus approx $25 for shipping. I got lucky on the cert and it confirmed most of what I was told about the diamond when I bought it 15 years ago (when I knew nothing about certs or diamonds). I would NOT EVER again buy a diamond of that size without a cert from a reputable company.

I do not understand where the jeweler is coming from saying that it would add 30 - 40% to the price. The only inconvenience in the process is that it can take a few weeks with GIA. That increase to the price is rediculous in my opinion, since as I mentioned above the cert itself was $118. At the price quoted above for the stone, I believe a cert may prove that it is NOT the color and/or clarity stated above.

The price being as good as it is, perhaps if the stone looks good to you, you could request that the jeweler send it to be certified and make the sale pending the outcome of the cert just for your piece of mind. I believe AGS would give you the diamond dimensions you seek, as GIA will give you only total depth and table percents.

Just my opinions here!

 

[phoenixgirl]

I would not buy the stone without a solid return policy or making it contingent upon an appraisal matching it. There is no good reason not to spend the extra $ to get a stone certified UNLESS it will not appraise for what you are claiming it is.

This stone could be clarity enhanced or G I1 or worse for all you know. It sounds fishy to me.

 

[Griffin]

I deal with non-cert stones all the time, and they do wind up 30-40% cheaper sometimes, but not for the reasons you might expect; second hand stones.

For instance, a gem dealer I work with sources stones from estate, police, and tax auctions. He has been called in by at least one state government to appraise and dispose of lots from tax seizures. He also has a deal set up with several pawn shop chains to purchase stones that are larger or higher grade than they are comfortable dealing with - I've seen $15000 stones come through pawn shops.
None of these sources have certs with them, and only in rare cases is the girdle is engraved so copy of a report can be requested.

Sad fact is that half of marriages end in divorce and all those stones wind up somewhere - in most cases right back in the wholesale supply stream after they are sent off to be Certified, and after couple of middlemen, my friend being one of them.
If you are comfortable grading your own stones, other peoples broken promises make for astounding deals once you pull them from the old mountings....

The only downside to this is that you may wind up with a stone with one of the treatments that have to be sent to a lab to determine, thus lowering thier value - but for the price you pay, the worst case scenario is you still got a deal. Example of mine; A nicely cut .83 point RB D VS2 for $900. If it comes back HPHT what have I lost?

 

[Griffin]

All that being said, if the jeweler is reputable, I would imagine he would have no problem with an independent appraiser looking it over, and offering a return policy. That is the only thing I would worry about.
Certs aren't everything, and if it worries you that much get it done yourself.