Burmese Ruby

[hannaht]

Hello All -

I am a new member and this is my first post. I have been looking at a Burmese Ruby listed on Planetary Gems. It is a new listing -- Rudy brought it back on his recent travels. It has an SVD certification. Can anyone tell me whether or not this certification is reliable? It appears to come from SVD Gems, at least that's what Google tells me. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PinkTower]

I have not heard of that lab. Can you show us the photo? I did not know you could bring back Burmese stones "on recent travels," but I am not on the market for a Burmese ruby, so
things could have changed with out my noticing.

 

[RockHugger]

Burmese rubies are still illegal to bring into the US. I wouldn't trust it.

 

[hannaht]

thanks for your responses.

 

[T L]

Someone on PS had a very bad experience with Planetary gems, and after that fiasco, I do not trust them.

Never ever buy a Burmese ruby of significant value to you without a reputable lab report from a major lab (GIA, GRS, SSEF, AGL are major labs) that indicates all full treatment, and if you're paying a premium for origin, it should list probable origin as well.

 

[Indylady]

Burmese rubies are still illegal to bring into the US. I wouldn't trust it.

IIRC, I've heard:
-that if the ruby is cut/polished or otherwise 'finished' in another country, it might be marked as goods from the second origin and therefore legal to import.
-if its 'old stock' as in, it was imported pre-embargo, its still good to go. (I realize that this is 'new' and recently acquired, so this doesn't apply)

Can anyone validate/disprove the above statements?

 

[LD]

Indy - you're correct.

Also, not sure where Planetary Gems are based? Are they in the US? If not, then I wonder if other rules apply?

Planetary Gems have had mixed reports on here. I know that 2 or 3 people have had very good experiences but my own is somewhat less than satisfactory in that they never answer emails! Consequently I've never bothered buying from them.

Like everybody else, I would urge that you get a proper lab report and not one from an unknown source. Will Planetary Gems send it to a lab of your choice? Just noticed something else .......... their advert doesn't state whether the Ruby is heated or unheated. Definitely something to check.

 

[T L]

Many rubies are lead glass filled, which renders them pretty worthless, irregardless of the quality of color. Therefore if you don't get a reputable lab report with a ruby of significant value, you're taking a huge risk.

 

[chrono]

If I am not mistaken, the ruby and jadeite ban from Burma/Myanmar is still in effect, so either it isn’t really from Myanmar, it is something else or it is old stock purchased elsewhere of Burmese origin. I have not heard of the lab before. What treatment has the ruby undergone? If the price reflects the treatment, I do not have an issue with it. Disclosure is very important.

 

[PinkTower]

But Chrono, what do you think of the question from Loving Diamonds about whether the ban applies if a stone was bought from someone not based in the US?
It is an interesting question.Also, as Indy said, I once read a very interesting article about how the rules do no apply to T&Co. because the stones are somehow different, in the legal sense, at least, after they have been cut.

 

[cellentani]

The Burma Freedom and Democracy Act of 2003 did ban direct imports of gemstones from Burma, but left a loophole whereby rubies that originated in Burma could be sent to 3rd party countries for faceting, and from there be legally imported to the US. The HR Block Burmese JADE Act of 2008 closed that loophole, and any rubies or jadeite of Burmese origin have been banned since then. As with any piece of legislation, there are provisions, such as, I don't believe the ban applies to Burmese gemstones imported pre-ban.

 

[RockHugger]

If the stone is Burmese, and is cut and sold from another country (let's say Thailand) it is still illegal to import into the us. Burmese is Burmese, and it is illegal to import into the USA regardless of when it was mined where it was cut, or sold ect.

I know this from the 30 pages of paperwork I had to go through to get my ruby into the USA. It was a Sri Lanka ruby, but they wanted to know EVERYTHING to guarantee it wasn't Burma.

 

[hannaht]

Again, thanks for all of your responses. You provided lots of good information. To avoid any issues, including the embargo, glass fillers, etc., I've decided not to pursue the particular gemstone in question.

 

[Pandora II]

I thought the ban did not apply to stones imported for personal use and it was just a trade ban?

 

[serenitydiamonds]

The ban applies to all importations of the gem, regardless of the status of the importer.

--Joshua

 

[Richard M.]

The ban applies to all importations of the gem, regardless of the status of the importer.

--Joshua

There's this from JC-K, October 2008, about the Tom Lantos ban:

"The importation ban does not apply to Burmese jadeite or rubies that are imported for personal use, meaning for personal wear by the importer, JVC said. Further, the bill does not address U.S. sales of any inventory of Burmese jadeite or rubies currently in the U.S. Jewelers can continue to sell existing inventories of Burmese jadeite and rubies already in the U.S."

On the other hand, my experience importing Burmese spinels (not banned) has been frustrating because Customs officials know nothing about gems and simply react to the word "Burmese." Anyone importing ruby or other Burmese goods should be prepared for potential bureaucratic headaches.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[morecarats]

The ban applies to all importations of the gem, regardless of the status of the importer.

--Joshua

There's this from JC-K, October 2008, about the Tom Lantos ban:

"The importation ban does not apply to Burmese jadeite or rubies that are imported for personal use, meaning for personal wear by the importer, JVC said. Further, the bill does not address U.S. sales of any inventory of Burmese jadeite or rubies currently in the U.S. Jewelers can continue to sell existing inventories of Burmese jadeite and rubies already in the U.S."

On the other hand, my experience importing Burmese spinels (not banned) has been frustrating because Customs officials know nothing about gems and simply react to the word "Burmese." Anyone importing ruby or other Burmese goods should be prepared for potential bureaucratic headaches.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

JCK is usually a reliable source, but in this case they got it wrong. For anyone interested, you can read the full text of the legislation banning the importation of Burmese ruby and jadeite here:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-3890

Here are the relevant paragraphs on exceptions to the ban:

‘(1) IN GENERAL- The requirements of subsection (b)(1) and subsection (c)(1) shall not apply to Burmese covered articles and non-Burmese covered articles, respectively, that were previously exported from the United States, including those that accompanied an individual outside the United States for personal use, if they are reimported into the United States by the same person, without having been advanced in value or improved in condition by any process or other means while outside the United States.

(2) ADDITIONAL PROVISION- The requirements of subsection (c)(1) shall not apply with respect to the importation of non-Burmese covered articles that are imported by or on behalf of an individual for personal use and accompanying an individual upon entry into the United States.

The exceptions for personal use pertain only to Burmese articles that were previously in the US and accompanied a person on a trip outside the US and then were then reimported, or non-Burmese gems.

 

[Richard M.]

morecarats,

Thanks both for the clarification and the text of the Act. I'd searched for the text but couldn't find it.

The idea that there's an exception for importing items for personal use seems widespread. The JC-K reference was the third I found. It's even mentioned in Wiki.


Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[Pandora II]

Thanks for clarifying morecarats. Am I right in thinking that there is no ban on importing Burmese goods into the UK - although it is discouraged?

Very interesting article here by Richard Hughes on the Burma embargo... http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/burma_embargo.htm

I'm a bit torn on the issue - if we are going to send troops into other countries I would have opted for Burma and Zimbabwe over Iraq and Afghanistan. Both could be shining examples of Asian & African economies and provide great quality of life for their peoples if run in a democratic and principled way.

As far as embargos go I think it's a total waste of time unless countries such as China are on board. For that reason and because I think it does provide an opportunity for the Burmese people to earn some money and continue to have some hope in their lives I don't have a problem with buying Burmese goods.

Weirdly my next-door neighbours are both Burmese and we were discussing the embargo situation the other week. They both have family out there and were very much against the idea of an embargo as they say it harms the average citizen more than it does the Junta.

 

[LD]

Thanks for clarifying morecarats. Am I right in thinking that there is no ban on importing Burmese goods into the UK - although it is discouraged?

Very interesting article here by Richard Hughes on the Burma embargo... http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/burma_embargo.htm

I'm a bit torn on the issue - if we are going to send troops into other countries I would have opted for Burma and Zimbabwe over Iraq and Afghanistan. Both could be shining examples of Asian & African economies and provide great quality of life for their peoples if run in a democratic and principled way.

As far as embargos go I think it's a total waste of time unless countries such as China are on board. For that reason and because I think it does provide an opportunity for the Burmese people to earn some money and continue to have some hope in their lives I don't have a problem with buying Burmese goods.

Weirdly my next-door neighbours are both Burmese and we were discussing the embargo situation the other week. They both have family out there and were very much against the idea of an embargo as they say it harms the average citizen more than it does the Junta.

Pandora I'm pretty sure you're right - hence my previous post.