Burapha Gemological Laboratory (BGL)

[chictomato]

Anyone heard of this lab? reliable? saw it on ebay

 

[morecarats]

BGL is a small lab in Chanthaburi, serving the local gem market. It''s an ethical and competent lab, but limited in what they can test. Unlike labs like AIGS, they don''t have online verification of test reports. They are well known in Thailand, but they are not an internationally recognized lab like AIGS, GIA or GIT.

 

[T L]

I asked this question somewhere else (can''t say where), and I was told it was also a small, but reputable gemological lab. My only issue is that the reports look very basic and like they can be easily forged since I know of no way to identify the id number of the report to any website. If someone can provide this information, please let me know.

 

[zeolite]

Date: 10/2/2009 8:36:26 AM
Author: morecarats
BGL is a small lab in Chanthaburi, serving the local gem market. It's an ethical and competent lab, but limited in what they can test. Unlike labs like AIGS, they don't have online verification of test reports. They are well known in Thailand, but they are not an internationally recognized lab like AIGS, GIA or GIT.

I'm not going to put any words in the mouth of BGL but:

In my eBay apatite auction below, where specialnext (seller) sent me a synthetic spinel in the place of this natural Brazil "apatite":

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260466679186&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Look toward the middle of the page for my auction. This quote is directly copied from my auction "Certificate by Burapha Gemoloical Laboratory please add 20.00 or contact Account".

So my crooked eBay seller was going to authenticate his fraud by sending the "apatite" to this lab. Do you think he would do this, if he thought the lab report would come back, stating "synthetic spinel"? Keep in mind, in specialnext two negative feedbacks before, two separate gemologists stated that he was selling synthetics as natural gemstones.

 

[T L]

Zeolite,
Thanks for sharing that. The other gemological resource site I asked about this couldn''t give me any information about Burpha being forged. I suspect it''s heavily used all over ebay because it is easily forged.

 

[zeolite]

I would think that if the lab is reputable, and it is aware that its reports are being forged, it would make every effort to distinguish its reports from the fakes. Otherwise, its reputation is being destroyed.

 

[Chrometsav]

Date: 10/2/2009 6:46:38 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Zeolite,

Thanks for sharing that. The other gemological resource site I asked about this couldn't give me any information about Burpha being forged. I suspect it's heavily used all over ebay because it is easily forged.

I wouldn't come to that conclusion at all. The main reason that it is all over eBay is the fact that most of the operations that sell stones from overseas use BGL because it happens to be the most convenient lab to their location. They are located in Thailand's capital gem market where the vast majority of coloured gems still come from; the same as most overseas auction companies. I know a couple of day in day out gem dealers located there who are quite confident in there abilities to detect most nasties.

As stated by others they are a highly reputable but small lab that still has decent equipment that can detect the vast majority of fakes etc.

Switching stones from reports already issued is an entirely different subject entirely in my book. Fraud of this nature is not solely confined to BGL reports for sure.

 

[Chrometsav]

Chictomato, I forgot to add though, I think that BGL charge extra to test for BE treatment-sapphires etc using certain equipment. I don't think it is done on the standard cert you see most dealers advertising on auction sites with their stones.

Maybe this is an angle they are using, which whilst not forging is certainly not presenting the whole picture.

There are probably others who are highly qualified who can add further.

 

[morecarats]

Date: 10/2/2009 11:10:09 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
I asked this question somewhere else (can''t say where), and I was told it was also a small, but reputable gemological lab. My only issue is that the reports look very basic and like they can be easily forged since I know of no way to identify the id number of the report to any website. If someone can provide this information, please let me know.

The BGL reports each have a File Number, and the report lists a telephone number and fax number. So the reports can be verified.

This is a small lab in a small town in a developing country. It was set up to serve the local gem market where people do business face to face. It doesn''t pretend to be GIA.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/3/2009 1:24:41 AM
Author: Chrometsav

Date: 10/2/2009 6:46:38 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Zeolite,

Thanks for sharing that. The other gemological resource site I asked about this couldn''t give me any information about Burpha being forged. I suspect it''s heavily used all over ebay because it is easily forged.

I wouldn''t come to that conclusion at all. The main reason that it is all over eBay is the fact that most of the operations that sell stones from overseas use BGL because it happens to be the most convenient lab to their location. They are located in Thailand''s capital gem market where the vast majority of coloured gems still come from; the same as most overseas auction companies. I know a couple of day in day out gem dealers located there who are quite confident in there abilities to detect most nasties.

As stated by others they are a highly reputable but small lab that still has decent equipment that can detect the vast majority of fakes etc.

Switching stones from reports already issued is an entirely different subject entirely in my book. Fraud of this nature is not solely confined to BGL reports for sure.

Thanks for the information. I wonder if they forge these certs hoping the receiver won''t bother to go through the verification process by fax or telephone. It would be nice to be able to do this verificaiton via website, especially in this day and age. I can''t even find a website for BGL, it only has the school, but nothing linking to the lab itself, and that''s also a concern of mine. This is why I prefer labs with at least a website and some way to verify the certification online.

 

[morecarats]

Date: 10/3/2009 2:36:22 AM
Author: Chrometsav
Chictomato, I forgot to add though, I think that BGL charge extra to test for BE treatment-sapphires etc using certain equipment. I don''t think it is done on the standard cert you see most dealers advertising on auction sites with their stones.

Maybe this is an angle they are using, which whilst not forging is certainly not presenting the whole picture.

There are probably others who are highly qualified who can add further.

In the case of sapphire test reports from BGL, if BE testing has not been done, the report contains a comment line to the effect that further analysis is required to determine if a foreign element has been introduced. So it''s not fair to say that the reports don''t present the whole picture.

As far as forged BGL reports go, there are much easier things that fraudulent sellers could do. The BGL reports are printed on distinctive paper, and have an official stamp over the photo. Since most buyers are not familiar with BGL anyway, it would be easier for the scammer to make up a fictitious lab and issue his own reports. He could even set up a simple website to allow the buyer to verify the reports.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/3/2009 9:13:13 PM
Author: morecarats

Date: 10/3/2009 2:36:22 AM
Author: Chrometsav
Chictomato, I forgot to add though, I think that BGL charge extra to test for BE treatment-sapphires etc using certain equipment. I don''t think it is done on the standard cert you see most dealers advertising on auction sites with their stones.

Maybe this is an angle they are using, which whilst not forging is certainly not presenting the whole picture.

There are probably others who are highly qualified who can add further.

In the case of sapphire test reports from BGL, if BE testing has not been done, the report contains a comment line to the effect that further analysis is required to determine if a foreign element has been introduced. So it''s not fair to say that the reports don''t present the whole picture.

As far as forged BGL reports go, there are much easier things that fraudulent sellers could do. The BGL reports are printed on distinctive paper, and have an official stamp over the photo. Since most buyers are not familiar with BGL anyway, it would be easier for the scammer to make up a fictitious lab and issue his own reports. He could even set up a simple website to allow the buyer to verify the reports.

I guess my concern is how Zeolite''s fraudulent seller could state he can provide a BGL cert. That''s a bit disconcerting. I know some labs now include a hologram with their reports, as well as online verification. Thanks again for the information regarding BGL.

 

[morecarats]

"I guess my concern is how Zeolite''s fraudulent seller could state he can provide a BGL cert. That''s a bit disconcerting."

A standard technique for fraudulent sellers is to offer a certificate at additional cost, hoping that the price-conscious buyer won''t take him up on the offer. The buyer is supposed to think that if a certifcate is offered, the gem must be real. But if the buyers takes him up on the certificate offer, suddenly the gem is no longer available.