Bruce's spess, photos and video

[justginger]

Indoor, daylight equivalent fluoro light box:



Outdoor, natural lighting on an overcast day:



And the video, also shot in a daylight equivalent fluoro light box, watch in hi def:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkkjNBh9-qo

What do you guys think? It SURE looks different to Bruce's original yellowish brownish photo.

 

[NKOTB]

VERY different from that photo, agreed! I think it looks like a really nice stone, personally. You'd have to watch the corners, but it's a really cool cut and nice colour!

 

[T L]

Indoor, daylight equivalent fluoro light box:



Outdoor, natural lighting on an overcast day:



And the video, also shot in a daylight equivalent fluoro light box, watch in hi def:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkkjNBh9-qo

What do you guys think? It SURE looks different to Bruce's original yellowish brownish photo.

Not to me, it looks quite yellowish and brownish in these two new photos as well. Really weird.

My monitor is calibrated to show more vivid saturation too. I don't get it. Maybe he needs a new camera. The stone reminds me of the color of a citrine which can look like a brownish yellow with a touch of orange. I'm not that impressed with the video either. I wish I could show you a video of my pear, it looks like a neon orange traffic cone. I can appreciate that he provided a video, but that is not Orange orange fanta color.

Incidentally, these stones look awesome to me in fluorescent light, so if that's what it looks like in florescent light . . .

 

[beau-wy]

I agree that it is not fanta or mandarin color. I see a medium-light yellowish, brownish orange with moderate saturation in the pics.

Cut and clarity are both exceptional, and I bet IRL it is extremely bright and sparkly, and would never be mistaken for a citrine by someone who is aware of spessartites.

I would lean hard on the vendor's description, I almost never see a spess that looks like the vendor picture, they are really tough to accurately capture color in photos. I have photographed quite a few pure orange spessartites, and have yet to avoid capturing a yellow modifier that is not there IRL.

 

[T L]

I agree that it is not fanta or mandarin color. I see a medium-light yellowish, brownish orange with moderate saturation in the pics.

Cut and clarity are both exceptional, and I bet IRL it is extremely bright and sparkly, and would never be mistaken for a citrine by someone who is aware of spessartites.

I would lean hard on the vendor's description, I almost never see a spess that looks like the vendor picture, they are really tough to accurately capture color in photos. I have photographed quite a few pure orange spessartites, and have yet to avoid capturing a yellow modifier that is not there IRL.

The problem is that most people cannot tell the difference between a citrine and a spessaritite. The spessartite has to be pretty orange and pretty exceptional for the average person to be able to realize its something else (I know first hand, as I've seen jewelers mistake spessartites as citrines - *sigh*).

I do agree that spessartites are extremely difficult to properly capture on camera. Did Bruce or Jason state that the color was pretty accurate in the video? If so, I would skip it, as I know you have a pretty penny to spend when shipping back and forth from Australia. I will say that I think the cutting and clarity are very nice, but if color is what you want, then this isn't it, IF and only IF the photos or video are accurate.

 

[Quantz Studios]

For what it's worth, I don't see yellow in the video... Not at all. Or Brown. A Spess of that clarity doesn't come around too often and the color to me looks incredible. It's HARD to tell from pictures. You cannot rely on someone's opinion based on pictures if they have never seen the stone. I have an ember-orange Spess that photographs reddish in some lighting, and yellow-brown under other lighting. But if you take it with your own eyes, it's pure orange. No matter what I did, I could NOT get that stone to behave accurately in front of the camera. I have a color-change garnet that does that too. You just have to trust the vendors on this one, and I dont know anyone who Jason has ever steered wrong.

One more thing... Honestly, who cares what "people think"? Let people think you have a citrine. I thought gemstones were for the pleasure and enjoyment of who owns and wears it, not for impressing an ignorant general public who wouldn't know the difference between a 5$ Mystic Topaz and a $50K Alexandrite? People have mistaken my 1968 Mustang for a Camaro, for example... Although, just because someone mistakes Spess for citrine, that doesn't necessarily bash the quality of the garnet more as highlighting that said person might not even be aware of the existence of an orange garnet. This is a fine stone, and if you can't trust Jason or Bruce's description of the color, than I think you're only option is to see it for yourself, or hope that another one comes along...

Okay, rant over. Sorry.

 

[T L]

For what it's worth, I don't see yellow in the video... Not at all. Or Brown. A Spess of that clarity doesn't come around too often and the color to me looks incredible. It's HARD to tell from pictures. You cannot rely on someone's opinion based on pictures if they have never seen the stone. I have an ember-orange Spess that photographs reddish in some lighting, and yellow-brown under other lighting. But if you take it with your own eyes, it's pure orange. No matter what I did, I could NOT get that stone to behave accurately in front of the camera. I have a color-change garnet that does that too. You just have to trust the vendors on this one, and I dont know anyone who Jason has ever steered wrong.

One more thing... Honestly, who cares what "people think"? Let people think you have a citrine. I thought gemstones were for the pleasure and enjoyment of who owns and wears it, not for impressing an ignorant general public who wouldn't know the difference between a 5$ Mystic Topaz and a $50K Alexandrite? People have mistaken my 1968 Mustang for a Camaro, for example... Although, just because someone mistakes Spess for citrine, that doesn't necessarily bash the quality of the garnet more as highlighting that said person might not even be aware of the existence of an orange garnet. This is a fine stone, and if you can't trust Jason or Bruce's description of the color, than I think you're only option is to see it for yourself, or hope that another one comes along...

Okay, rant over. Sorry.

To your first bolded comment, that is true, and that is why I asked JustGinger to ask Bruce or Jason if the photo or the video is accurate. I would be the first one to tell her to see it in person first, but since she's in Australia, S&H and insurance, and custom fees are very pricey just to have a look. Unfortunately, all we have is photos, and in this case, one better, because we have a video as well. Should we never give opinions here because we only have photos? Remember, many of us give opinions based on the photo stressing if it is accurate, and I know I and others have also stressed the caveat that the photo may not be accurate, and it may be best seen in person.

To your second bolded comment, people don't have to care what others think, but if someone needs an opinion, they ask for it here, and I think it's rather helpful. I really wish PS was around when I first started buying gems, it would have saved me a lot of $$$ and heartache in making poor decisions. After all she did ask, "What do you guys think?" If she didn't ask, I would not give an opinion.

As for citrines, I'm not putting them down, but if all else is equal, cut, carat weight, a citrine is far less expensive than a "true mandarin colored spessartite" as this has been advertised to JustGinger. I would probably be upset if I spent a great deal on a spessartite and everywhere I went people said, "is that a citrine?" I certainly would not want to pay a very high price. JustGinger indicated in another thread that this stone was not inexpensive. Citrines tend to have more yellow and brown in them, and that's not acceptable for a high priced spessartite.

 

[Quantz Studios]

Thank you TL,

To your first point- I just dont think us Pricescope members should be discouraging a member from a stone thats hard to accurately photograph, based on how it looks in a photograph. Customs, shipping and the like are an unfortunate side-effect of a global market place. I completely understand the OPs hesitation, for sure. I pinch every penny that I possibly can! My point is just that, how are we members supposed to give a better opinion on a stone's color than two respected trade members that have held the stone in their hands and seen it with their own eyes, when all we have to go by are a photograph and a video of a stone thats hard to photograph? Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but lately i've been frustrated with this issue (all over the internet and not) and I am sorry if I have upset or offended anyone who has lent a helping word regarding this stone- It was never my intention.

To your second point, of course places like this are useful! I am not discouraging those seeking advice or opinions, nor am I discouraging those willing to give advice or opinions- it's a great help to educate a population that is under constant threat of scalpers, scammers and dishonest gem vendors selling treated good and simulants as natural stones, or selling inferior goods at inflated prices to unsuspecting buyers. In my rant, I was more referring to your citrine comments, and addressing why someone should let possible opinions of an uneducated non-gem person influence their buying decision. I am aware of the differences in appearance and price regarding Spessartite versus Citrine. I, personally, dont give a hoot to someone thinking my expensive item is actually something of lesser value- It's mine. I know what it is, and I enjoy it. That's what I was referring to when I said "who cares"- Not regarding the opinions expressed and asked for on this forum.

I hope all turns out for JustGinger, and that maybe, somehow, this little deflection from the main topic can give a little push in the direction she decides to go in.

 

[T L]

Thank you TL,

To your first point- I just dont think us Pricescope members should be discouraging a member from a stone thats hard to accurately photograph, based on how it looks in a photograph. Customs, shipping and the like are an unfortunate side-effect of a global market place. I completely understand the OPs hesitation, for sure. I pinch every penny that I possibly can! My point is just that, how are we members supposed to give a better opinion on a stone's color than two respected trade members that have held the stone in their hands and seen it with their own eyes, when all we have to go by are a photograph and a video of a stone thats hard to photograph? Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but lately i've been frustrated with this issue (all over the internet and not) and I am sorry if I have upset or offended anyone who has lent a helping word regarding this stone- It was never my intention.

To your second point, of course places like this are useful! I am not discouraging those seeking advice or opinions, nor am I discouraging those willing to give advice or opinions- it's a great help to educate a population that is under constant threat of scalpers, scammers and dishonest gem vendors selling treated good and simulants as natural stones, or selling inferior goods at inflated prices to unsuspecting buyers. In my rant, I was more referring to your citrine comments, and addressing why someone should let possible opinions of an uneducated non-gem person influence their buying decision. I am aware of the differences in appearance and price regarding Spessartite versus Citrine. I, personally, dont give a hoot to someone thinking my expensive item is actually something of lesser value- It's mine. I know what it is, and I enjoy it. That's what I was referring to when I said "who cares"- Not regarding the opinions expressed and asked for on this forum.

I hope all turns out for JustGinger, and that maybe, somehow, this little deflection from the main topic can give a little push in the direction she decides to go in.

I cannot tell you how many times that "respected trade members" and I did not have the same opinion of a gemstone, so that's why multiple and unbiased opinions are very helpful. I have very high regard for some of these "respected trade members" as well, but that doesn't mean we always see eye to eye on color.

As for your opinion about not caring if your stone is considered a less expensive gem than it really is, I respect that, and thank you for clarifying. However, I do bring it up, as it may be something that the OP cares about.

 

[Arkteia]

It has already been mentioned how difficult it is to photograph these stones, so I really can not comment on the color but the cut of this stone may not be flattering. JMO. A "plumper" cut can either deepen the color and use the 'sleepiness" in a favorable way, creating a "halo" around a more included (Lloliondo or Namibian) stone, or it shows a terrific RI of clean Nigerian stones which may be, yes, brownish, but fantastically bright and sparkly. Sorry if I am invading the cutters' territory. Nothing about the stone, my post is prompted by surprise because this is the first time I saw such a cut.

This being said, Jason Brim is very nice and helpful, he has seen the stone with his own eyes, and perhaps, you will be lucky with this stone?

They are becoming expensive, and I do not know your budget, but I saw a clean stone sold as Namibian at a trade show at 2K/ct and I am sure it is by far not the limit.

TL, re. citrines - would you agree that normal citrines are not lemony-brown, they should be lemon, but what we seeing these days are not natural citrines, we are seeing badly burned amethysts that do not even deserve to be called citrines? "Grilled amethysts, well-done"

 

[T L]

TL, re. citrines - would you agree that normal citrines are not lemony-brown, they should be lemon, but what we seeing these days are not natural citrines, we are seeing badly burned amethysts that do not even deserve to be called citrines? "Grilled amethysts, well-done"

The very first gemstone I ever bought was a citrine many many years ago (too embarassed to say how many years ago because it's more than the age of some people on this board). It was very orangy with some brown and yellow in the mix. This stone really reminded me of it, and I still have the stone. Citrines are a quartz, and can be any variation of yellow, orange and brown combined. Some have more yellow, some have more brown, some have more orange. It depends on the treatment type (irradiation, heating, no treatment) and other variables I'm sure like the natural conditions at the time of their formation.

Here's a photo of my very first gemstone, a citrine. It was a sparkler, but it has scratches on it over the years, and my daughter plays with it.

 

[Arkteia]

TL, yours is beautiful! It is saturated and I do not see any brown in it! Maybe there is some IRL, maybe it is my monitor, but it is a very saturated stone I have an antique citrine pendant which does not photograph well because of old, windowed cut but it is a beautiful, pale lemon color. What I mostly see these days are heated citrines and they look so unflattering...

And sorry, when I said "such a cut" in my previous stone, I meant, "such a cut in a spessartite".

 

[chrono]

I'm not seeing yellow on my monitor and these pictures and video are far better than the original pictures. Unfortunately, while it is more orangey and saturated, I still see some brown. It may not be mandarin but it is still a beautifully cut and coloured spessartite. The ideal fanta orange spessartite is a rarity these days and if the price is right on this one, it could well be worth it.

 

[T L]

TL, yours is beautiful! It is saturated and I do not see any brown in it! Maybe there is some IRL, maybe it is my monitor, but it is a very saturated stone I have an antique citrine pendant which does not photograph well because of old, windowed cut but it is a beautiful, pale lemon color. What I mostly see these days are heated citrines and they look so unflattering...

And sorry, when I said "such a cut" in my previous stone, I meant, "such a cut in a spessartite".

For a citrine it is nice in color I suppose. I would not want this color in a "mandarin spessartite." Thanks for the kind words, and no offense taken at the "such a cut" remark.

 

[T L]

I'm not seeing yellow on my monitor and these pictures and video are far better than the original pictures. Unfortunately, while it is more orangey and saturated, I still see some brown. It may not be mandarin but it is still a beautifully cut and coloured spessartite. The ideal fanta orange spessartite is a rarity these days and if the price is right on this one, it could well be worth it.

Chrono,
Are you looking at it on your mobile device? I know you and I typically see the same modifiers, so that's why I ask, because I do see yellow on my two computers at home (laptop and desktop) and both are calibrated to show the more vivid side of hues. Thanks! I see almost an identical color to the citrine I posted above on my hand. Are you seeing it differently?

 

[chrono]

Your citrine looks very yellow in comparison to the spess on my monitor. Not sure what's going on here with monitors and what not.

 

[T L]

Your citrine looks very yellow in comparison to the spess on my monitor. Not sure what's going on here with monitors and what not.

Very bizarre. I wonder if there's some information loss in the photos depending on the monitor used.

 

[justginger]

Thank you all for your opinions and the subsequent discussion of colors. I am still mulling this over. I have no doubt it is a quality stone, with 2 reputable vendors suggesting it is one of the best they've seen in some time. That definitely counts for something in my eyes, especially knowing what a struggle I've had photographing my own gems so they appear even remotely true to life. While the gem is not inexpensive, nor is it extravagantly priced. I think there's a good chance I will have to face facts that obtaining a stone with the caliber of color of TLs is just short of impossible these days -- and when one comes around, it will more than likely be out of financial reach for me. Such is life when it comes to finite, desirable material.

 

[T L]

Thank you all for your opinions and the subsequent discussion of colors. I am still mulling this over. I have no doubt it is a quality stone, with 2 reputable vendors suggesting it is one of the best they've seen in some time. That definitely counts for something in my eyes, especially knowing what a struggle I've had photographing my own gems so they appear even remotely true to life. While the gem is not inexpensive, nor is it extravagantly priced. I think there's a good chance I will have to face facts that obtaining a stone with the caliber of color of TLs is just short of impossible these days -- and when one comes around, it will more than likely be out of financial reach for me. Such is life when it comes to finite, desirable material.

JustGinger,
Did you ask Bruce or Jason if the color looks like my pear spess? You have the photos, so why not ask? I'm unsure what is going on with my monitor or Chrono's, but while my citrine above looks very yellow to both of us, the spessartite looks identical in color to the citrine to me, and more saturated to Chrono. I have no idea why, the same is true of the video for me, but again, I have no idea. The best way to verify the accuracy of the saturation is to ask them to compare it to a photo of a stone that looks more saturated. Just an idea or a thought. I once asked Jason if a stone looked like my pear spess and he was up front and honest with me about it.

 

[justginger]

Yes, TL, I spoke to Jason specifically about your stone. He believes this one is the same pure orange in coloration, but simply not as saturated. Perhaps mandarin, but not fanta, IYKWIM. The general consensus is that it will take a lot of time and a lot of money to obtain a stone of that quality. Disappointing, but if that's the case, I will have to adjust my expectations and goals...unless you or someone else thinks they know where to find one?

 

[chrono]

Alas, I have to agree with your assessment. A Fanta will be long in coming and large in budget when it does finally come around (if ever). Bruce's seems to be one of the nicer ones around lately. Without knowing the price, I cannot say yay or nay to the stone (if pricing is reasonable or really too much for the material).