Broken Engagement

[Heartbroken24]

My fiance has broken off our engagement and moved out of the apartment that we have shared together for a year and a half. I was not expecting this and I just do not know what to do. He turned off all the utilities that were in his name, which forced me to have to pay all the deposits and reconnection fees. I know in my heart that this may be for the best but that doesn''t make me feel any better. I am confused now as to what to do about my engagement ring. He wants it back, but he still owes my father money on it, because he helped him to get it, but I do not think that I even want to give it back after he does pay him. I am hurt yes, but I am angry about what he has done and it wasn''t a very expensive ring so I really do not feel guilty about keeping it but I am just not sure if I am doing the right thing? Any help out there?

 

[Girls-best-friend]

I am so sorry that this happened to you. Just know that you are much better off without him. To just up and leave and turn off all the utilities is just cold. If it were me and he still owed on the ring I would take him to courtand sue him to get back the amount my father paid and then give it back to him once that was settled. You are so much better off without him. You deserve and will find much better than the likes of him.

 

[wonka27]

As far as I know, engagement rings are conditional gifts, meaning marrage must be satisfied in order for you to keep it. There could be legal ramifications if it goes that far. I'm sure every state has their own set of rules, so the rules and requirements can vary. You may want to contact a lawyer for a brief consultation if it is that big of a deal to you.

 

[Gale]

Oh my dear girl! My heart goes out to you. Surround yourself with family and friends to help you through this horrible time. Something similar happend to me just last July. It was awful and I understand what you must be going through.

Since he broke the engagement contract, you should be able to keep the ring. Other than that, he is morally bankrupt to demand it back, given that he owes your father money on it. He's morally bankrupt to spring this on you in the manner that he did in any event.

 

[Diamondsbybree]

Sorry to hear this has happened to you. My heart goes out to you.
I don't think you should have to give the ring back, especially since he owes your father money on it. Also, all the deposits you had to pay, I would tell him services are rendered~! You are out of alot of money. He broke the contract and left you broke in your pockets. I wouldn't budge if he asks for it back.
You could eventually try and sell it to get back some of the money you lost with him moving out.

 

[Aurora Borealis]

I am very sorry about what you have to go through. Walking out and cutting all the utilities is sooo immature, as is asking for the ring back. I agree with what all the other posters have said. Legally, an engagement ring is the commodity exchanged to symbolize the promise to marry. Since he broke it off, he shouldn't get the ring back, even if he did pay for it, which he didn't. (Your father did, none the less). He really sounds like a jerk and if I were you I would resell his ring and buy yourself some sparkly to wear on your ears.

 

[Hest88]

That's just awful! What a cad!

I would tell him that when he pays off your father then he can have the ring back. It's like a mortgage. If he hasn't paid off the bank, the house isn't technically his.

 

[goldengirl]

Aw, hun.... (((hugs))) That's an awful thing to have to go through.

Might I pry a little into the specifics of why he broke off the engagement? If he is truly at fault or if it was his decision, I would keep the ring until he'd paid off your father's loan. If I was feeling nice, I'd give it back once the debt was paid. If not, I'd consider it his parting gift.

That is lousy. How much does he owe your father still, do you know? Does your father have an IOU from the ex? If so, if your ex tries to take you to court over it (and who really does, anyway?) I'd give it to your father, who has as much right to it as your ex does.

I'm guessing you broke up on bad terms, since he shut off the utilities on you. Have you retrieved your housekeys or rekeyed the locks? Please keep in mind your own safety and privacy. Another poster went through the same thing, only they got back in before she could get the keys back and stole everything he'd ever given her. Even if you did get his key copy, you may consider rekeying at least one lock, anyway, in case he had extras with friends or family and decides to help himself to your place.

Have you asked your father what his opinion of this situation is? Since he's (almost) as involved as you and the ex, you may want to know what he thinks is the proper course of action.

Keep us updated!

 

[wonka27]

Here is a link to an article on the subject. Some of you may be suprised by what it says. Reality is, depending on your state, you may or may not be intitled to the ring no matter who broke it off.

Irregardless, I'm terribly sorry to hear about this incredibly childish way of ending a relationship. In order to get on with life, I'd do my homework so the "ring" issue doesn't linger on forever.

 

[goldengirl]

I agree with you, wonka, that she may or may not legally be entitled to keep the ring, depending on her state's laws. Nevertheless, I believe that the odds are skewed in her favor, at least until her ex-fiance makes good on his debt, and I am aware that while a woman who is sued for the return of the ring usually loses, most men don't. Sue, that is.

To be frank, if my fiance was a nasty little turd in breaking things off, I'd keep the ring, too. And he'd have to sue me if he wanted it back. Depending on the cost of the ring, he (the OP's ex) may decide it's not worth the time and hassle to submit a complaint to a small claims court.

On a side note, how does one prove she still has the ring? If he were to take her to court over it, and he says "She has my ring" and she says "I gave it back when the bastard left me", what does the judge do? It's not like he made her sign for receipt of the ring, or, if she had given it back and he just wanted to be a jerk, not like she'd made him sign for its return. So if it comes down to he-said she-said...who wins? Does the judge just split the difference? Because that would suck, if she'd returned it and he just wanted to screw her over for whatever he could get.

 

[wonka27]

I agree, some kind of payoff needs to be made for him to completely own the ring.

I think your last statement about proving one still has the ring is an interesting one. Bottom line is the judge would probably have to listen closely and look at the two parties to figure out who is BSing! That is an excellent issue to consider. Probably if the ring ever changes hands, a witness should be present to avoid that conflict.

 

[fire&ice]

Point simple - the father owns the ring. Hopefully, there is some sort of contractual agreement for payment.
I would give the ring to your father. And, your father should send him a default notice.

 

[wonka27]

I respectfully disagree. I think it depends on what the deal was. In essence, the father gave a loan to buy the ring. If he is making regular payment to the father in accordance to the loan, why should dad get the ring? When we buy a car, we get the car even if we are still paying on it, right? Why should a ring be any different? Basically your taking a loan and making it a layaway plan.

I hate these situations because it is obviously emotional for the person and for those who hear the story. However, legal issues pull emotion out of it. You need to keep a clear head and keep your mind of what the laws of your state are. I'm no legal expert, but to me, I don't see why he doesn't get the ring if he lives in a state where the man automatically gets the ring back, even if pop is still owed money.

Fire - Why a default notice. The poster says nothing about him being in default of payments.

 

[fire&ice]

Sure you get to drive the car - but *you* don't own it nor have title until it is completely paid for. Until then, the lender *owns* the car. Period. It's easier if she gave the father the ring. He owns it as long as it has not been paid for. He has rights to it no matter how much has been paid. The repo man will still come get your car even if you have paid on it religiously for a year. You default that money. Ownership is very clear *if* the money was indeed borrowed from the father.

He may still be making payments. From the situation, I assumed he wasn't. If that is the case, then send him a default notice.

I don't know the circumstances. Could be the engagement ring was a gift. Without knowing the circumstances, I don't know if he has claim to it. But, one thing I am sure of is if the money was loaned to the guy for the ring, it belongs to the lender.

 

[ame]

IMO you should keep it--1) he broke it off (unless you cheated on him its yours) and 2)he borrowed for it from your dad.

Then Id sell it and use some of the money to pay your father back and the rest to help you st ay on your feet.

My ex cheated on me BAD and then dumped me (because I wouldn't put up with it and didn't trust him "I can't be with someone who doesnt trust me") when I finally had enough and confronted him. I offered the ring back to be rid of it, but he didn't want it. I sold it and paid some debt off with it. He called asking for it about 3 months after I sold it saying he needed the money and I said I sold it to pay off the debt that the relationship racked up. He was all pissed at me but got over it and went away. I can only imagine he was going to pass it to anther girl.


Sorry to hear that, it sucks ass. Just hang on hun because a better guy will come along.

 

[Todd07]

Heartbroken,


A good site for you to visit is http://www.theregoesthebride.com/


It is a forum dedicated to people in your situation - very supportive and informative.




At a time like this it's hard to be objective, but please try as getting through this smoothly will help you move on.




The engagement is over. Whatever the reason, it's probably for the best since a marriage that doesn't work is much more painful and enduring. It's always harder on the one that didn't initiate the breakup, even if both knew it wouldn't work.




it's not completely unreasonable to severe financial ties. If he warned you he was taking his name off the untilities, that's OK. If he suprised you, he's a petty SOB. The deposits are still your money, but I understand the unexpected hit to your cash flow.




Since he is protecting himself, you should do the same. Itemize any debts he owes you and your family and what he may claim he is owed. If it's large, you may want to see a lawyer. Oh, change your locks so he doesn't stop by to pick up the ring or a TV while you are working

PS. at this point the ring is just a bad investment that can't be sold for what it cost. Get him to pay your dad so he keeps the ring and eats the loss.

 

[wonka27]

----------------
On 9/16/2004 12:03:17 PM fire&ice wrote:

Sure you get to drive the car - but *you* don't own it nor have title until it is completely paid for. Until then, the lender *owns* the car. Period. It's easier if she gave the father the ring. He owns it as long as it has not been paid for. He has rights to it no matter how much has been paid. The repo man will still come get your car even if you have paid on it religiously for a year. You default that money. Ownership is very clear *if* the money was indeed borrowed from the father.

He may still be making payments. From the situation, I assumed he wasn't. If that is the case, then send him a default notice.
----------------

I don't think I mentioned once that the father didn't "own" the ring. I'm saying, if the guy has been paying, he should keep it. Just like a car. You make your car payments, you continue to drive. You don't, it is reposesed. If dad doesn't want him to pay off the rest of the ring, then dad should refund what he has paid in so far.

I've been paying my car for three years with no improper payments. The repo man hasn't come to see me???

 

[Gale]

Do you really expect that the man who borrowed money from his once future father-in-law for an egagement ring would repay him for a token he no longer honours? Wonka, I believe you are an decent and honourable man. However, repo people aren't going to chase this guy for not paying back what he owes on the ring. It is extremely unlikely that this poor woman's father would chase the guy for what he is owed on the ring either. If the guy's father had provided the money for this token, I could see my way to conceding that the ring belongs to the guy. Then it becomes something between the guy and his father. It is just not the same situation as a car loan at all. Until the guy pays the woman's father back in full for the ring, it just isn't his. Conditional gift or not - he hasn't paid for it, it isn't his.

 

[wonka27]

He might continue paying. If I sank money into it already, you'd bet I'd finish paying it off. Why loose money in the deal.

If he didn't finish paying, if I were the father I'd want to chase him down for the money. We all know the ring isn't worth what was paid on it. Why should dad loose money?

If he hasn't finished paying it off, I agree it isn't his, however, he should have the right to finish paying it off...like we all do with any other object we borrow funds to buy!

I think everyone is reading their own little piece into this story. We don't know how much dad contributed and how much ex-fiance paid back. The original post did not say. I also think it is funny that people blindly seem to side with this woman. I feel bad for her, but we don't know the other side of the story. To sit here and make judgements on something based on 1/2 of a story is irresponsible!

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 9/16/2004 4:45:25 PM Gale wrote:

+Until the guy pays the woman's father back in full for the ring, it just isn't his. Conditional gift or not - he hasn't paid for it, it isn't his.----------------

Precisely my point. If the ex pays the dad off in full, the ex technically owns the ring. If the dad is not paid in full, the ring is owned by the father regardless of how much has been paid on the ring up until now. I don't have my crystal ball but Las Vegas bets that the guy won't finish paying for the ring. I don't think the father has *any* obligation to refund what he has paid thus far. No lender is obligated & as acrimonious as this sounds - I certainly wouldn't.

One can argue all day long whether she should give the ring back. Just from what she wrote, even if he did pay the father in full, I'd make him serve me notice & start making a case that the ring was a gift.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 9/16/2004 5:04:45 PM wonka27 wrote:

He might continue paying. If I sank money into it already, you'd bet I'd finish paying it off. Why loose money in the deal.

If he didn't finish paying, if I were the father I'd want to chase him down for the money. We all know the ring isn't worth what was paid on it. Why should dad loose money?

If he hasn't finished paying it off, I agree it isn't his, however, he should have the right to finish paying it off...like we all do with any other object we borrow funds to buy!

I think everyone is reading their own little piece into this story. We don't know how much dad contributed and how much ex-fiance paid back. The original post did not say. I also think it is funny that people blindly seem to side with this woman. I feel bad for her, but we don't know the other side of the story. To sit here and make judgements on something based on 1/2 of a story is irresponsible!----------------

Precisely what my point is. But, I seriously doubt that the ex is going to pay the father in full. Yes, the real issue is how much is left to pay. No, I would *never* give possession to the ex if the ring is not paid in full. The dad is out the money & the ring. Then the father has to get a court order & legally pursue getting the ring back, which involves time, money, the police & headache. I doubt whether the banks/credit people break even on most repos. They do it because they can - and it's a deterient. Most individuals do not go through the hassle.

Nope, we don't know the story. But, I am of the mind that if the guy breaks it off - the ring should go to the girl. My reasoning is simple. The bride to be usually rakes up costs for the wedding far in advance.

 

[Gale]

While that's true about mostly siding with the initial poster, all we have is her initial post. We know nothing of the breakup or any details. She is most likely looking for sympathy here, and not necessarily for advice about what to do with that ring. She is most probably very, very hurt at the moment. When this sort of thing happened to me a few months ago, I reached for any hand that would offer any kind of solace. Many people on Pricescope offered me great advice. While knowing no person from Pricescope in real life, it was certainly comforting for me to have this anonymous support, along with that of my family and friends. Right now, this thread is not really offering her much comfort, which might explain why she has not posted back.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
. To sit here and make judgements on something based on 1/2 of a story is irresponsible!----------------

Perhaps. But, what is really irresponsible is giving the guy, who already has an acrimonious relationship w/ the family, possession of the ring w/o full payment.

Sure, maybe the guys really is a stand up man; but, my bet - chances are slim & none that he would gain possession of the ring *and still* make the payments.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 9/16/2004 5:16:05 PM Gale wrote:

Right now, this thread is not really offering her much comfort, which might explain why she has not posted back. ----------------

I'm a pragmatist. She specifically asked what to do with the ring. I'd love to comfort her; but, I think she needs to protect herself. Decisions made out of grief often aren't the best ones. I truly believe that under no circumstances, except full payment of the loan, should that ring be given to the ex.

She does have my sympathies & support. I really feel for her. But, I also believe what doesn't kill us makes us stronger in the end. For what it's worth, I was sort of engaged before (ring bought no proposal). I have an OS moment when I think about what my life w/ that man would have been. About a year after I met & married my soul mate. That was over 20 years ago. You'll have the happy ending too. At the very least, you will learn what you *don't* want in a mate.

 

[Gale]

----------------
On 9/16/2004 5:04:45 PM wonka27 wrote:


I think everyone is reading their own little piece into this story. We don't know how much dad contributed and how much ex-fiance paid back. The original post did not say. I also think it is funny that people blindly seem to side with this woman. I feel bad for her, but we don't know the other side of the story. To sit here and make judgements on something based on 1/2 of a story is irresponsible!----------------

----------------
On 9/16/2004 5:13:50 PM fire&ice wrote:

----------------
On 9/16/2004 5:04:45 PM wonka27 wrote:

He might continue paying. If I sank money into it already, you'd bet I'd finish paying it off. Why loose money in the deal.
----------------

Wonka, respectfully, you are speaking for yourself here, not the guy involved. You, as I have already mentioned, seem to be a decent and honourable man.

----------------
On 9/16/2004 5:13:50 PM fire&ice wrote:

----------------
On 9/16/2004 5:04:45 PM wonka27 wrote:

If he didn't finish paying, if I were the father I'd want to chase him down for the money. We all know the ring isn't worth what was paid on it. Why should dad loose money?
----------------

He might not want to do this to spare his already distraught daughter further anguish. I think that's what my father would do in this circumstance.

 

[Julian]

I'm so sorry to hear of your broken engagement.

As for the question of the ring -- I guess the only advice I can give is to do what feels right to you. If keeping the ring is going to burden your heart and weigh on your mind, give it back and make a clean start. But if you need the money and feel that you are justified (not knowing your situation) in keeping the ring, then do what feels right to you.

No one can say since only the two of you know what happened to your union.

Warm wishes to you, sister!

 

[wonka27]

----------------
On 9/16/2004 5:18:58 PM fire&ice wrote:

----------------
. To sit here and make judgements on something based on 1/2 of a story is irresponsible!----------------

Perhaps. But, what is really irresponsible is giving the guy, who already has an acrimonious relationship w/ the family, possession of the ring w/o full payment.

Sure, maybe the guys really is a stand up man; but, my bet - chances are slim & none that he would gain possession of the ring *and still* make the payments.
----------------

I agree fire. Overall, based on what this lady has said, makes me feel like the guy is a creep! However much of a creep, we cannot take a situation into our own hands and make up our own justice! To do such a thing would pull us to a level equal of his. And I don't think anyone wants to be at that level.

With that said, I need to reiterate the fact we don't know the whole story. To blow out of someone's life with such an obviously thought out plan, I have to wonder why he did it. I find it hard to believe he did this with no bitterness, and just had a revelation to leave. Something must have been terribly wrong to warrant such a hurtful exit. I don't condone it at all, and certainly would never handle a situation that way, but I feel something stinks here.

My advice would be this. Find out the laws of the particular state. If the guy has claim to the ring, the father should contact him requesting payment in exchange for the it. If he does not comply, he forfeits the ring. Why keep it if down the road it can come back to haunt them. Get the situation resolved now, with legal justification, so that when the hurt has gone away and a new relationship forms, life can be left as is. Otherwise, this may flare back up when they really don't want it to!

My g/f is in a situation right now over a camper bought jointly with her ex almost two years ago. Now there is bad blood and pain resurfacing over something that could have been resolved a long time ago!

 

[goldengirl]

Hmm. I guess we'll never know what went down or what she's decided to do.

Gale, how are you doing, since your broken engagement?

 

[Gale]

Why thanks for asking GoldenGirl! My situation is just a little different - the proposal was offered and taken away the very next day. It took a lot out of me at the time, but with the help of family and friends, I have moved on. Not to another boyfriend, but to another life - one without Dave.

I won't pretend for a moment it's easy, but there are things I certainly like about my life without him. This comes somewhat as a revalation, as I thought I would not enjoy being without him at all. I am learning to enjoy living alone again, There is more time for fun things, more time to meet professional requirements, and more time to do things that feed my soul. Rather selfishly, this time is mostly all about me, me, me.

Sometimes the weekend looks rather long and lonely, sometimes the nights are like that too. I loaded my life with lots of distracting activities, and it gets easier with every week, day, month that passes.

I would hope that this happens to very few people, as it is certainly no picnic, and has indeed been one of the most difficult periods in my life. So, in the end, this is all for the best as being with someone that doesn't love you back is the wrong situation to be in.

I hope that Heartbroken is getting lots of support from her circle of loved ones, and that she implements a strategy for navigating this rough passage.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 9/17/2004 7:21:36 AM Gale wrote:

the proposal was offered and taken away the very next day. It took a lot out of me at the time, but with the help of family and friends, I have moved on. Not to another boyfriend, but to another life - one without Dave.

I won't pretend for a moment it's easy, but there are things I certainly like about my life without him. This comes somewhat as a revalation, as I thought I would not enjoy being without him at all. I am learning to enjoy living alone again, There is more time for fun things, more time to meet professional requirements, and more time to do things that feed my soul. Rather selfishly, this time is mostly all about me, me, me.

--

Oh goodness, now I remember your history. And, you are experiencing exactly what I did after the fact. Looking back, that time was really enlightening as well. I learned so much about myself. I started liking myself for me & not as a couple. And, literally when I least expected it & so comfortable in my own skin, my hubby came along. It's hard - but I'm glad you fill your days w/ family & friends. You really have a mature outlook on this.

Wonka, there may be a reason. We are not privy to it. But, sometimes a creep is a creep. How about - "I know I want to marry someone like you; but, I don't know if you are it." I read "not good enough". Funny, the subsequent person that he married wasn't good enough either. 20 years later, I'm still with my soul mate.