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Brilliance in a Radiant?

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tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
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17
I was wondering if there was a way that I could find out if this diamond had a lot of brilliance other than by looking at it?
Radiant cut G VS2
6.37x5.23x3.39 Ct: .94
Table: 64 Depth: 64.8
Crown A: 33.5 Crown H: 11.8
Pav A: 44.6 Pav D: 51.9
Pol/Sym:Both Good Culet:none
Girdle:Thin to Med Flr:none

If any one can find out the amount of brill/fire I would greatly appreciate it.

Also, Is 6,000 too much to pay?

Much Thanks
 

Rank Amateur

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
1,553
They say all fancies need to be seen to be believed, but radiants even more so. The best starting point is the cut class table over at www.gemappraisers.com or a trusted set of jeweler's eyes.

As for the price, I think $6000 is about $1500 or more too high. Check out the price search engine here at pricescope and you'll see $4500 is closer to right (more if it's from a brick and mortar store or less if it's an internet drop shipper - maybe a lot less.)

R/A
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
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17
Could someone possibly do a simulated light return analysis of this diamond?
I would appreciate it.

Thanks much!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
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2,530
The price sounds high. You could get a full ct+++ with that amount.
The numbers look good to me.
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
17
I will see if I can negotiate on the price.


To my previous questions: Can a simulated light analysis be done for a fancy diamond like on the RB? If so, can someone do it for me. I am curious to find out.

Thanks Much
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
Hi Tokuyo. Because of the multitude of nuances inherent in fancy cut stones, I've found the simulated images to not be as reliable as the round images when produced sight unseen.

I prefer not to post images if I think the chance is great they're not going to properly represent the stone. For fancy shapes I recommend tests like the BrillianceScope or Idealscope to get an idea of the light return performance, as well as a professional opinion.
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
17
$6,000.00 might seem a little high but I have seen, on the internet, 1.01 D VVS1 radiant going for $7,692.00. This diamond had worse measurements than my diamond.

I have seen 90pts radiants at approx. 3 to 4,000.00, but they were badly proportioned.

Shouldn't I expect to pay a hight price for a well cut diamond?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
The pricing is definitely steep. On pricescope a .95 G VS2 radiant (not determining cut) can range from $3200-4000. For $6k you can get around a 1.30c G VS radiant...depending on cut! A huge difference!

I would keep shopping around or negotiate that $$$ down a few thousand!


Good luck!
 

kenfeeley

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
8
With all respect to those who have responded..

Toskuyo, I think that the price is at least in the ballpark. I've been looking for some very similar specs on a radiant myself and it has proven to be quite a challenge thus far. Finding a radiant cut that well is not easy. Simply finding depth and table both under 65 is very very hard.

Ken
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
The proportions of fancy shape stones, may not be indictitive of their light return performance.


You NEED to get it checked out by someone with a Brilliance Scope and who has the expertise to know the differences, and can render you accurate and reliable report, so your purchasing decision is made properly.

It sounds like you don't want to do this, but it is prudent to spend the money to make sure and have total peace of mind.

Rockdoc
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
I ran a quick search on Pscope out of curiousity and found 5 stones that were G/H color VS-SI1 clarity, from 1.01-1.17c that were all under $5k; all had depth and table under 65% which is 1A-2A AGA cut proportions. So there are nicely dimensioned stones out there and UNDER $6k for a 1c+ stone.

However--RockDoc and Rich are right, with fancies, its best to have an IdealScope image to help determine light return. Dimensions are one thing, but as evidenced by the AGS 0 proportions, not all stones that have good dimensions perform well. I would buy an IdealScope or make sure you get it appraised before purchase with an appraiser who has one.

If you have found a great stone, kudos! But don't overpay by a few thousand just because they can make you. Shop smart!

Good luck
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
17
Thanks for everyones responses, but I have to agree with Ken. The only diamond that I have located that is similar to mine is, from pricescope, 1.01 D VVS1 Depth:64.4 Table:64 GIA Girdle: Tn to Sltk Cul: none Flor: none Pol and Sym: good Price is approx. $7100.00 The one problem with this diamond is that the crown height was only 6.5 versus my 11.8. All the other diamonds at the lower price range had extreme girdles, med to strong flr, and the depth's were lower than the table size.

For the diamonds at the AGS 1a-2a , Where are they? I can't seem to find them. Can someone lead the way?

Sue
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
How I searched was on the Pricescope main page, choose radiant, put in the specs for color, clarity, then for depth and table put 60-65 for each (or you can put whatever range you want). Then search. It came up with alot of stones...but some of them had thicker girdles, etc. It's a preference thing. I didn't look at other factors, all had good symm and polish, but no crown/pav angles posted..so you'd have to get those from the vendor.

Again--I understand that you and Ken are searching out almost the same thing and have found similar experiences, but IMO you should not have to pay double the cost for a well cut radiant. To go from around $3k for the specs you are speaking about (not taking cut into consideration) to $6k for a 'well cut' with the same specs seems like a huge markup to me!! If possible, I would search for something in the middle, or at least try to negotiate that $6k down a bit IMO.

Anyway, good luck!
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
17
Aren't the crown and pavillion measurements just as important as the table and depth?

Don't these numbers help determine the quality of the overall cut?

I know that fancy cuts do not have set guidelines for the perfect cut, but isn't the AGA or AGS coming out with some numbers?

I can't see comparing diamonds without all the measurements to go by. I would think that wholesalers and retailers would set their prices based on all the measurements.

What do you think?
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
here is some dog I found on a trade site :

Radiant 1.00 ct E VS2
Dep 71.8 Table 66
P & S Good
5.88x5.25x3.77
no fluo
GIA cert
3900$US

To give you some other food to think.

Trichrome.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,535
----------------
On 6/7/2003 2:28
8 PM RockDoc wrote:



The proportions of fancy shape stones, may not be indictitive of their light return performance.




Rockdoc

----------------
Rockdoc,
Why?

See example for Prince

CutGradeRealPrince1.jpg
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,535
----------------
On 6/9/2003 1:20:39 PM leonid wrote:

that's cool stuff Serg. when you're going to release it?
----------------
Hi Leonid,
Thanks.I think to add it to standard DC in July.
It use same algorithm like for round cut and I am using it sometimes during in 2 years.
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
17
Hi Sergey,

Do you have any examples of radiant cut diamonds?

Thanks,
Sue
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,535
----------------
On 6/10/2003 9:13:55 AM tokuyo wrote:

Hi Sergey,

Do you have any examples of radiant cut diamonds?

Thanks,
Sue

----------------
This is 3d (scanned) model radiant diamond.
It can be quite different from your diamond

CutgradeVenusRadiant.jpg
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Mar 21, 2002
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2,535
Big ratio of diameter is not good for cut( because correlation pavilion and crown angle is breaking)usually
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
17
Sergey,
Thanks for the examples.
Could you tell me what the numbers are on your parametrical radiant model?

Thanks
Sue
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
17
Sergey,

Are all your examples scanned in or are the measurements input?

If you do both, do you see a significant difference in output?

Sue
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,535
----------------
On 6/10/2003 8:10:10 PM tokuyo wrote:

Sergey,



If you do both, do you see a significant difference in output?

Sue
----------------
Hi Sui,

The real difference definitely depends from quantity and quality measurements input.
Your( standard sarin) output is not enough for cut analysis fancy cuts.
 

marv117

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
73
----------------
On 6/10/2003 10:11:36 AM Serg wrote:

parametrical radiant model
----------------
That's a nice radiant diamond Serg...Where can I find parametrical radiants? Most, if not all radiants I have seen are rectangular...Are parametrical radiants more expensive?

Please advice.
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
17
Additional question for you Sergey,

Could you tell me what the numbers are for the parametrical example you posted? I am curious.

Thanks,
Sue
 

tokuyo

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
17
Hi Sergey,

Thanks for the information. It will give me a base of comparison as I look at other diamonds.

Appreciate it!

Thanks Again,

Sue
 
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