Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS pls!

[advicepls]

This is hard for me to write. This is going to be long, so bear with me.

I am currently on the LIW list. I have been for quite some time. This, obviously, is not my regular username.

The situation:
BF and I have been together for many years. In the last few months, I've been having doubts about our lasting power as a couple. We have some issues that we just don't see eye to eye on, and honestly, never really have. Being as young as we were when we met (1, these important things weren't discussed prior to moving in together. Overall, we are very happy together, but since some of the issues we don't agree on are what many people would consider 'deal breakers', I'm not sure we can continue to be happy together forever.

You see, BF is a realist. I'm more of an optimist. However, in the last several years, some of his realistic tendencies have rubbed off on me. His opinion, which is in my opinion tainted from his father's multiple failed marriages, is that since most marriages end in divorce, we will be happily ever after until we sign the divorce papers. Now, my parents are divorced too, but that hasn't tainted my views on marriage the way they've seemed to affect him. His dad was screwed out of money and assets in every divorce so he's also very protective and distant about some issues.

Ultimately his insecurities about marriage led me to begin researching the main reasons that people get divorced so that I could prove that our relationship had what it would take to be successful. Turns out, as things are, I think I'm wrong.

Some of the big reasons for divorce that came up in my research (not necessarily in order of importance):
1. Children
2. Money
3. Sex
4. In-laws
5. Chores
6. Free Time
7. Addictions
8. Abuse
9. Fidelity
10. The Future

We don't have issues with Sex, In-laws, Addictions, Abuse, or Fidelity. We're on the same page 100% about all those things. We do have issues (in my opinion at least) about The Future, Money, Children, Free Time, and Chores. The 5 things we have issues on sort of tie together, mostly relating to money and how we see our futures (they don't align the way I thought they did).

The issues:

#1 CHORES
This is not something we discussed before moving in together. I (incorrectly) assumed that we'd work it out as we went. Over the years, it's panned out that I. do. everything. I cook, clean, shop, laundry, EVERYTHING! He contributes nothing to the household. We have pets, I take care of them in every aspect from feeding, vetting, walking, grooming, bathing, medicating with no physical or monetary support from him, as well as to the house. I cook and clean up, he never helps. Often he'll even ask me to get him something or fix him something when he's not doing anything himself! And while this is partially my fault for doing it so long that now it's 'expected', I don't like it this way. A lot of time is makes me feel more like an employee than a partner.

#2 FREE TIME
BF has VERY expensive hobbies. I'm often described as 'boring'. I don't really have hobbies. I'm totally fine just hanging around, relaxing, window shopping, PSing, play with the dog, etc. He ALWAYS needs to be doing something. And since his hobbies are so expensive, I often feel resentful of the money he's spending on them when we could be SAVING. But I'm ALOT more practical than he is and feel that while his things are 'fun', there's a better use for that money. I do want him to enjoy himself and do things he enjoys, but I want to budget for them, talk about them. I feel a lot of time he goes overboard and spends more on hobbies than he actually earns and carries a small amount of revolving debt to keep doing them. With the money we're making (combined) at our age, we could have SO much money in savings! And yet we have none, zip, zilch, nada. My current free time is spent taking care of him and our household (and pets). I do feel that since we've been together, that if I'm completely honest with myself, I've let myself go a bit since I worry about taking care of everything but myself.

#3 - CHILDREN
I'm not sure this is really an issue for us. BF is 100% no, not ever on the children issue. At the moment, I *think* I'm hanging out in the 'no' camp. What I worry about is that I may be the kind of person to change my mind in 10 years when I'm actually in a position to consider having them. If so, this would be a problem. I honestly think that I could be happy with or without them if all other aspects of my relationship were sound, but seeing as how they're not, I'm unsure of this category as well. I used to want kids, and then I realized that they are expensive and kind of annoying. My sister had a baby last year and I've enjoyed the baby so much! It surprised me, really. It's made me think that if I was with someone who shared the enthusiasm, that maybe it's something I could enjoy, particularly since I am of the 'boring' variety. Kids would kind of be my hobby

#4 - MONEY
This seems to be our biggest issue (that he seems totally oblivious to). With his father having been burned so many times, he's very protective of "his" money. Now, mind you, we've been living together about 5 years and money is something he doesn't even want to discuss. As it stands, we (mostly) split things down the middle, have our own accounts, etc. While in a dating situation, I'm okay with this, this is not how I see finances in a marriage. HOWEVER, Money needs to be talked about, we need to be able to agree on how to save and spend money so that we can meet long term goals. The issue here is that even in marriage, he see having all finances kept separately and keep splitting costs down the middle. No joint savings, no joint retirement, etc. Always "in case of divorce". I don't want to marry someone who is planning for the divorce before we sign a marriage license!

#5 THE FUTURE
BF has expensive hobbies, I don't. He doesn't want kids, I wonder if I might. BF would rather have big, expensive toys, than even, say, owning a house. I want to be married, own a house, be successful in my job, and have a quaint, simple, happy life. BF wants it all. This is a problem, right? This kind of ties all the problems together. In this area, too, I feel that in the past several years I have made decisions about school, programs, jobs, etc based on US and what would benefit OUR life. I feel a lot of the decisions he makes about these things are about HIM and what would be best for HIM without considering the US factor.



Ultimately, I haven't talked to BF yet about how I'm feeling/have been feeling. I guess I've really been feeling this way all along, but since we were young and these weren't things people our age talked about, I brushed a lot of my feelings under the rug. Well, the rug is now so lumpy, that I'm constantly tripping over it and I don't think I can sweep it away anymore. It needs to come out in the open, it needs to be talked about, it needs to be dealt with. For better or worse.

I guess my question for you all is, what would you do?
Did you talk about these things with your SO before living together, engagement, marriage?

At this point, I haven't given up on us. We have a lot of time, love, energy, feelings, etc into this relationship and I'm not going to throw in the towel just yet. I *hope* that we can come to a compromise on some of these issues and come to terms we both agree with. Since I've been thinking about this for a few months, I've come to terms with the fact that it's possible we won't be able to. Our current lease on our apartment is up in a few months (4-6 months) and if things are going to dissolve, that would be the logical timeframe to do so.

I guess I just need support, and advice. Have any of you been with (and lived with) someone that you loved more than you can describe that deep down, just wasn't right for you? What did you do?

HELP

 

[beesha77]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Sorry you're having issues but thank goodness you are looking at them NOW rather than later! To me, if you are even contemplating on having children and he is an absolute NO then that is an absolute deal breaker. You don't want to be married down the road realizing having kids is important to you and he of course hasn't changed his mind. Chores or who/what will be taken care of by whom can seem annoying right now but it can be something that absolutely drives you nuts later! And if he's not helping now, you certainly can't expect him to change once you're married. I would not marry someone who does not want to join forces with me in terms of finances. It's OURS together as partners not yours and mine.

BF and i do not live together and will not before we are married. We are on the same page with finances, kids and all of the things you are worried about. I think if you're worrying about them now it's a definite red flag. Several of them! Trust your heart on this one. **hugs**

 

[vanilla87]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Sorry you're having issues but thank goodness you are looking at them NOW rather than later! To me, if you are even contemplating on having children and he is an absolute NO then that is an absolute deal breaker. You don't want to be married down the road realizing having kids is important to you and he of course hasn't changed his mind. Chores or who/what will be taken care of by whom can seem annoying right now but it can be something that absolutely drives you nuts later! And if he's not helping now, you certainly can't expect him to change once you're married. I would not marry someone who does not want to join forces with me in terms of finances. It's OURS together as partners not yours and mine.

BF and i do not live together and will not before we are married. We are on the same page with finances, kids and all of the things you are worried about. I think if you're worrying about them now it's a definite red flag. Several of them! Trust your heart on this one. **hugs**

Ditto this. After 4 years with my bf (we dont live together) we share everything. We are working together towards one goal - our future together - house, savings, family, religion, free time are all things we have discussed and we share the same vision.

I hope you too can find a common goal, but if not its certainly better now than later

hugs xxx

 

[monarch64]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Honey, my dear, my darling...how do I say this gently? It's time to take a very hard look at what you've written above, and end this relationship. There are serious fundamental incompatabilities going on here and there is no reason you can't part on good terms and both find other partners who are better suited to each of your needs, as hard as that is to hear.

Better to do it now than to marry and find out that marriage changes nothing, and end up divorcing (as I did) a few years from now, maybe with children, maybe not.

It may seem like the hardest thing in the world at the time to let go, but TRUST ME, and believe this: it is so much better to let go of something that wasn't going to work out anyway NOW than to keep grasping at straws and wishing things would change. You will understand what I'm saying in about 6 months. I swear.

We can't work this out for you--you've already done your pros/cons list and worked it out for yourself. Please re-read and realize that your relationship requires so much work that neither of you are willing to do that it shouldn't be saved. (You don't REALLY want to compromise, do you? Neither does he, it's very obvious from the facts you've presented!)

The right person is out there for you. You have likes and hobbies of your own that probably have been neglected or have just been unexplored. Go find out who YOU are and embrace that person, revive that lady, and go from there! A great man with equally interesting hobbies and desires is out there waiting to meet you.

ETA: I noticed that you didn't list religion as one of the issues with divorce. Not that it matters now, but is that a factor? Also, I wanted to say that I learned long ago that you can have issues in your marriage, but supposedly you need to have some sort of 60/40 ratio as far as happiness/unhappiness. It seems to me you have 50/50? Hugs.

 

[Circe]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Another ratio I remember having heard about relationships: you both need to feel like you're doing 70% of the work if you want to come out 50/50. It sounds like you're putting in considerably more, and he's putting in considerably less ....

Fundamentally (and I hope I don't offend here), your BF sounds selfish. He's putting himself first in every category, from the cost of his hobbies to the time that they take, and somewhere along the way he's convinced you that you're "boring." You don't sound boring: you sound responsible!

It sounds like you guys have been together for a long time, and you've realized a fundamental incompatibility. I know how hard it can be to break up that first long-term relationship, but ... I also think you know that you need to. Good luck, honey.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Sorry you're having issues but thank goodness you are looking at them NOW rather than later! To me, if you are even contemplating on having children and he is an absolute NO then that is an absolute deal breaker. You don't want to be married down the road realizing having kids is important to you and he of course hasn't changed his mind. Chores or who/what will be taken care of by whom can seem annoying right now but it can be something that absolutely drives you nuts later! And if he's not helping now, you certainly can't expect him to change once you're married. I would not marry someone who does not want to join forces with me in terms of finances. It's OURS together as partners not yours and mine.

BF and i do not live together and will not before we are married. We are on the same page with finances, kids and all of the things you are worried about. I think if you're worrying about them now it's a definite red flag. Several of them! Trust your heart on this one. **hugs**

Beesha77- Thanks for your input, it sums out how I feel. I think I'm experiencing lots of 'red flags'. I do think that it's best we deal with this now, one way or the other. My heart is leaning towards one way, but it kills me to think about it.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

[quote="Ditto this. After 4 years with my bf (we dont live together) we share everything. We are working together towards one goal - our future together - house, savings, family, religion, free time are all things we have discussed and we share the same vision.

I hope you too can find a common goal, but if not its certainly better now than later

hugs xxx[/quote]

I feel like he should WANT to share everything. If he trusts me enough to live with me and share this time in our lives together, pay the bills on time, etc, I don't understand not wanting it. I think part of it is us having different short and long term goals that don't align, and part of it is his tainted views on marriage and divorce.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Honey, my dear, my darling...how do I say this gently? It's time to take a very hard look at what you've written above, and end this relationship. There are serious fundamental incompatabilities going on here and there is no reason you can't part on good terms and both find other partners who are better suited to each of your needs, as hard as that is to hear.

Better to do it now than to marry and find out that marriage changes nothing, and end up divorcing (as I did) a few years from now, maybe with children, maybe not.

It may seem like the hardest thing in the world at the time to let go, but TRUST ME, and believe this: it is so much better to let go of something that wasn't going to work out anyway NOW than to keep grasping at straws and wishing things would change. You will understand what I'm saying in about 6 months. I swear.

We can't work this out for you--you've already done your pros/cons list and worked it out for yourself. Please re-read and realize that your relationship requires so much work that neither of you are willing to do that it shouldn't be saved. (You don't REALLY want to compromise, do you? Neither does he, it's very obvious from the facts you've presented!)

The right person is out there for you. You have likes and hobbies of your own that probably have been neglected or have just been unexplored. Go find out who YOU are and embrace that person, revive that lady, and go from there! A great man with equally interesting hobbies and desires is out there waiting to meet you.

ETA: I noticed that you didn't list religion as one of the issues with divorce. Not that it matters now, but is that a factor? Also, I wanted to say that I learned long ago that you can have issues in your marriage, but supposedly you need to have some sort of 60/40 ratio as far as happiness/unhappiness. It seems to me you have 50/50? Hugs.

monarch! I totally apprciate your blunt, honest opinion as usual. I was hoping you'd chime in. While I was never necessarily happy with the way things were run before, until I REALLY looked into the reasons for divorce, I never deep down realized some of these fundamental incompatibilities. Believe it or not, even at my young age, this is my second long-term live-in relationship. The first ending from him cheating, so I've been through a hard break up, at least in that situation it was easy to want out and be away since he hurt me emotionally. This situation is harder because I do love BF. Part of me wonders if he loves me the same way that I love him though. I sometimes feel that he knows about our differences in money and hobbies and I feel that I can see in his eyes that we're just not the same on these fronts. BF is also a creature of habit and comfort. Why would he want to give this up, even if it's perfect? It's easy for him, everything is taken care of, and he has zero worries. I feel like we have so much into this that I wish there was a way to fix it, but I'm afraid that there is so much that is unchangeable at this point in terms of habits/rituals that it can't be done.

I meant to list religion as one of the biggies, it certainly is, but for us, that's not a problem either which is why I must have ommitted it accidentally, we're fine on that front too.

I might say ours is 60/40, but the wrong way (60 unhappy, 40 happy for me, 60 happy, 40 unhappy for him).

And you're right, particularly at my age, there are many many men out there. Starting over AGAIN, even being relatively young, is scary.

One of my issues is how to bring this up to him. Even if I'm comfortable in my head with the decision to separate (which I don't think I'm completely there *yet*), I think he's mostly oblivious to my unhappiness. If we did separate, I would WANT it to be on good terms because the reasons wouldn't be bad. We do love each other, nobody cheated, it would simply come down to us not being compatible enough to be happy together forever. In my previous relationships (long or short) you normally can feel when something like is coming. I know I've been feeling it, but I would guess that he has NO idea I'm unhappy.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Another ratio I remember having heard about relationships: you both need to feel like you're doing 70% of the work if you want to come out 50/50. It sounds like you're putting in considerably more, and he's putting in considerably less ....

Fundamentally (and I hope I don't offend here), your BF sounds selfish. He's putting himself first in every category, from the cost of his hobbies to the time that they take, and somewhere along the way he's convinced you that you're "boring." You don't sound boring: you sound responsible!

It sounds like you guys have been together for a long time, and you've realized a fundamental incompatibility. I know how hard it can be to break up that first long-term relationship, but ... I also think you know that you need to. Good luck, honey.

Wow, well I feel like I'm doing 110% and would wager he does, um 5%?

Fundamentally (not offended btw!) BF IS selfish! He is putting himself first everywhere. While I may be a *little* boring, I also AM responsible. And that he's acting, well, not, I don't like it.

The thing that bothers me as that it didn't use to be this way. One of the things that attracted me to BF at first was how responsible he was. When we first moved in together we had no credit cards and we lived on what we made. Things were shared a lot more in terms of finances, etc because it was the only way for us to survive. Chores were shared, he didn't have expensive hobbies because we made no money, etc. But he WAS a saver. I don't know what/why/how it changed, but it feels like overnight he morphed into this entirely different person (of course it wasn't overnight, it was over many years, slowly), but I don't understand the change. He used to be a responsible saver, now he spends more than he earns and doesn't want to talk about it. His hobbies are his "stress relief' and he needs them to be happy".

We have been together a long time, and we've lived together a long time, and I do think these fundamental incompatibilities are a problem.

How do I bring these things up with BF in a non-threatening or accusatory way so that we can begin discussing the issues and ultimately decide what's best for us both?

Our lease is up at the end of June. We live in a 1 bedroom apartment and certainly can't afford to lease additional places to live separately until then if things go down. I don't know how much time is needed to discuss these things, but assuming they go badly, I also don't want to have to suffer living in a small apartment with someone I have no intentions of staying with. I have no family in the area, and though I'm sure I could crash on a friend's couch, that wouldn't be ideal either.

Sigh.

 

[metatrix]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Before I give you advice on this, I have some questions. I know they are pretty personal, but even general answers would help clarify the situation a lot.

1. How old are you? How old is he? How long have you been together? How long have you been living together? Have you ever broken up or seriously talked about breaking up before?

2. What are your work situations? Roughly how much money do you make? How much does he make? Did you both have the same level of education? How established are you guys in your careers? Are either of you planning to go back to school/change careers or are you pretty much settled in your career paths? How long have you guys been out of school and working? What is your future earning potentials like? Do you expect you or your bf's earnings to change drastically, or are you expecting modest changes in the future?

3. What are your/his priorities when it comes to career vs. family vs. alone time? Are you both equally committed to your careers? Do you work roughly the same hours? If you have kids, would you want to quit your job or work part-time?

4. What are his reasons for not wanting kids? Is he just concerned about the cost/responsibility, or does he actually dislike children? Say you guys had tons of money and could hire nannies and housekeepers to help out -- would he want kids then? Would you?

5. How 'settled' are you guys? Are either of you the type to consider moving or working abroad for a while or are you guys pretty much settled where you are living? How committed are you guys to the relationship. Say one of you had to move for a job opportunity...would you move for him? Would he move for you? Would you do a LDR?

6. Is he cheap with you, while he is extravagant with himself? Do you know his financial situation and vice-versa? Are either of you in serious debt? Do you even know how much he is spending or saving?

7. What are these hobbies? Roughly how much money and time is he spending on them? Is it a ridiculous amount given his income?

8. Does he actually WANT to get married? It seems weird that someone who is so paranoid about divorce would actually be willing to get married in the first place. Let's say you guys take marriage and kids off the table all together...does he see you in his future? Does he want to spend the rest of his life with you? Or is he comfortable with the idea of spending it alone or with someone else?

9. Is he just bitter about relationships/marriage, or does he also have misogynistic tendencies? Does he say bad things about women or does he believe that they are all gold-diggers? Does he hate marriage or does he hate women?

Sorry this turned out so long. Even if you don't feel comfortable answering any of the questions, at least think about them yourself.

 

[suchende]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I could hear a lot of me in a past relationship in OP, so I thought I would just share. I was dating someone who sounds a lot like your current BF. I especially can relate to your feelings on kids, but because ex-BF was so staunchly against them, I sorta ignored my doubts. More importantly, he made me feel insecure in my/our future. He didn't have the big toys your BF did, but he made other life choices that were similarly unsettling in terms of the idea of imagining starting a family with him (addicted to work, short fuse, etc.)

I knew I wanted to break up, but it was hard because I had so much invested, and there was a lot of good in our relationship. When we did, I had a lot of doubts, missed some things, etc, but more than anything, I was even more aware of how much I'd let him treat me like a doormat (similar chores situation, similar money situation). Then, a few months later, I met my current BF. Nothing can ever show you how wrong your past relationship was for you like one that's right. For one thing, I have 180'd on kids. BF wants them, and makes me feel totally secure about the idea of having them with him, and gets excited about the idea of raising them with me. I realized that before it wasn't that I didn't want kids so much as that I wasn't at all open to having them with someone like ex-BF.

While there's give and take in every relationship, I don't think your style of giving and taking is compatible with your current BF's. It sounds like you are willing to spoil BF, well then, you need someone who also has your "spoil my SO" mentality, and your BF needs a woman who also has a mind to protect what's hers and wouldn't let him take advantage of her. I remember thinking, when I was with ex-BF, well, this is just how men today are; spoiled, afraid of commitment, etc. Now I guess I think that was just an excuse so I wouldn't have to start over. I won't say BF isn't without his flaws because he totally isn't, but they aren't the things that drove me crazy and honestly, really hurt my feelings with ex-BF.

I guess what I am saying is, you were a kid when you picked out your BF, and you're an adult with adult judgment. I think you'll do a better job this time, and be able to have a sense for flaws that you can live with, and flaws you can't. Now go get some fresh makeup and a flattering new dress and start imagining a clean slate

 

[iota15]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

With respect to how to go about separating your lives, first, make a decision. To me, it sounds like you already have your answer.

Next, what you do is Prepare Prepare PREPARE. Prepare for this to get ugly, but hope that it does not.

Research and make arrangements for a place to stay - friends, cheap rentals, etc. Decide when is the best time to separate. Your bf will need time to find a place too, and you have to give your landlord notice.

Do you have any joint accounts? Those have to be cancelled or separated, in case his irresponsible self decides to rack up a ton of debt under it.

Start saving! As much as you can. You may need to pay for two places (plus utilities) at the same time. You'll need a security deposit for your new place. You have to pay for moving expenses. Do you need a new means of transportation to your new place? a new job?

Plus, there's what I'll call "the recent ex factor". He could destroy your current home and lose your security deposit. He could stop paying his portion of the bills. He could throw your clothes onto the street. It probably won't happen, but it doesn't hurt as badly if you have a financial bumper. Take these months to save, save Save!

Also, start focusing on yourself! If you've been letting yourself go, well, no time like break-up time to start hitting the gym. Go for runs/walks. Join a recreational sports league. You'll meet people that way too. Or go volunteer your time (if you have time). See your friends. Nuture your close friendships, if you've been letting them lag.

Once you have prepared to the best of your ability, break it to him gently and calmly. Before that, I suggest telling him what you're not happy with as soon as possible, and asking him to make an effort at changing. It doesn't sound like you believe that could happen, given how long things have been progressing this way for; however, I still think you should talk to him about your concerns.

For one, it gives him an opportunity to change. If he doesn't, then you know your answer. Secondly, you don't want him saying, "I'll change, I'll change" once you're attempting to break up with him, and approaching the June re-lease date. Give him that opportunity now. That way, you can be sure of the break-up and break it off cleanly, without having to go back and forth.

Good luck. I know this seems like a lot... but in the grand scheme of things, you are just taking steps to set yourself up for a better life. You deserve someone who has the same vision, goals and direction in life, and more importantly, treats you with the respect and partnership you deserve. These incompatibilities are not going to disappear - not with a ring, not with a marriage. Take the bull by the horns, and do what's right for you and your future children.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Before I give you advice on this, I have some questions. I know they are pretty personal, but even general answers would help clarify the situation a lot.

1. How old are you? How old is he? How long have you been together? How long have you been living together? Have you ever broken up or seriously talked about breaking up before?

We're both 24. We've been together nearly 5 1/2 years. We've been living together for more than 4 years. We have never broken up or seriously talked about breaking up before.

2. What are your work situations? Roughly how much money do you make? How much does he make? Did you both have the same level of education? How established are you guys in your careers? Are either of you planning to go back to school/change careers or are you pretty much settled in your career paths? How long have you guys been out of school and working? What is your future earning potentials like? Do you expect you or your bf's earnings to change drastically, or are you expecting modest changes in the future?

We both work full time. Combined we make nearly $80k/year, pretty much each, me a little more than him. We both have Bachelor's degrees and are working on Master's degrees. We are not established in careers, though we have good, stable, well paying jobs. We're happy with our career paths that we're each pursuing in graduate school, but are not settled into permanent jobs yet. We've both been working full time and attending graduate school for nearly 2 years. Future earning potentials can be high. BF's earnings should change pretty drasitcally in the future, mine will also increase, but likely not to the extent his will.


3. What are your/his priorities when it comes to career vs. family vs. alone time? Are you both equally committed to your careers? Do you work roughly the same hours? If you have kids, would you want to quit your job or work part-time?

Me: Priorities are being successful in my careers choice and to be happy as a family (with or without children, I'm not sure). I do like my alone time, but less than most people probably.
Him: Priorities are being successful in his career and hobbies! His idea of a family is just a partner/spouse. He HATES being alone. To the point that if I'm out of town visiting family or something, he usually has people over just so he's not home alone.


4. What are his reasons for not wanting kids? Is he just concerned about the cost/responsibility, or does he actually dislike children? Say you guys had tons of money and could hire nannies and housekeepers to help out -- would he want kids then? Would you?

He generally just doesn't like children. And as some previous posters have pointed out, simply, he's selfish. He likes his life, his toys, his hobibes, his job, and he doesn't want things (like children) to get in the way of that. He'd rather spend the money on himself and his things than on kids. He likes being taken care of, not doing the caring. With plenty of help, either from nannies, or family, or a supportive husband, I could maybe want them.


5. How 'settled' are you guys? Are either of you the type to consider moving or working abroad for a while or are you guys pretty much settled where you are living? How committed are you guys to the relationship. Say one of you had to move for a job opportunity...would you move for him? Would he move for you? Would you do a LDR?.

We're not settled yet. We're both still in graduate school and have a few (2-4 years) until we're done. I'm not the type to consider moving abroad (though I'd love to travel and visit!). He is, he's even commented before in the past that he'll never get to do those things (like live in Spain or Costa Rica for a year to become more fluent in Spanish) since we have a home and things he just can't pick up and leave. The city we're currently living in is not one either of us want to live in long term. We're here for school (which is where we met) and that's the extent of me wanting to be here. I'd say we're both committed to the relationship, but i worry that it's for the wrong reasons, like, because it's easy, i'ts comfortable, it's NORMAL, and not because we're really all that great together when you look at our differences of opinion on these issues. I can honestly say that before my doubts I would have moved for him, I'm not sure he'd move for me. I would be open to a LDR only if it were as a short-term solution (say less than a year) and this is something he also agrees with.

6. Is he cheap with you, while he is extravagant with himself? Do you know his financial situation and vice-versa? Are either of you in serious debt? Do you even know how much he is spending or saving?

I wouldn't say that he's cheap with me. He definitely used to be a lot more generous (in the first two years I got very extravagant gifts of jewelery, shows, trips, etc) than he has in the last year or two since his most recent (and most expensive) hobby has taken over his life. I am very open about my finances with BF, but I don't know much about his. He. won't. talk. about. it. No serious debt, we both own our cars, I have a small amount of student loan debt that will be in deferrment for a few more years (less than $20k), he has no student loan debt, we each have a small amount of credit card debt (say less than $5k). I know he spends everything, and saves nothing, but in terms of the actual amounts, no clue. All I know is that supporting him with footing the bill for all of our food (eating in or out) and other household items (the man hasn't purchased his own shampoo, body wash, deoderant, or toothpaste since we moved in together), I end up spending and not saving either, and I hate it, it's not how it used to be where we worked together to save to buy the things we wanted.

7. What are these hobbies? Roughly how much money and time is he spending on them? Is it a ridiculous amount given his income?

You name it, he does it, or wants to eventually. The most recent is flying. He got his private pilot's license and is working on every rating in the book (including commercial and acrobatics!) with no intent on ever working in aviation. Other things he does is sailing, boating, diving, hiking, camping, paintball, shooting, gun enthusiast, and the list goes on. He's pretty much only been flying in the last two years because it is so expensive he can't afford to do them all. Flying costs around $170/hour for the plane and $45/hour for an instructor if he's working on something. In the last 2 years he has acquired nearly 250 flight hours, doing the math tells me nearly $50k in 2 years on a $30-40k/year salary depending on if/when he has extra clients on the side. Seems excessive to me.

8. Does he actually WANT to get married? It seems weird that someone who is so paranoid about divorce would actually be willing to get married in the first place. Let's say you guys take marriage and kids off the table all together...does he see you in his future? Does he want to spend the rest of his life with you? Or is he comfortable with the idea of spending it alone or with someone else?

I think so...we used to talk about it (it hasn't come up in a long time) about "when we get married", blah blah blah. I do agree that it's strange for him to be for it when he's so afraid of it, but like I said earlier, he hates being alone. I think he wants to be married with someone who's just as protective of their 'things'. I think he sees me in his future, but again, not something we've talked about in awhile. We always talk about where we'll live one day the kind of house we'd like to have, but his vision also includes fancy planes and boats and things. Stuff stuff stuff. I don't know that his is comfortable with idea of being with someone else, but I'm his first serious relationship, he is not mine. I've been through this before, he hasn't. I think I can see in his eyes sometimes that he knows we just don't want the same things, but I guess we're both afraid of not being together and neither of us have said anything about it.

9. Is he just bitter about relationships/marriage, or does he also have misogynistic tendencies? Does he say bad things about women or does he believe that they are all gold-diggers? Does he hate marriage or does he hate women?

I think he would say he is trying to be prepared for the very real possibility that a future marriage of his won't last. He's all about being prepared. He is definitely not misogynistic, but he would be suited to live in the 50s. He's very much of the mind that women belong in the kitchen and taking care of the house. On the flip side, he also think we should work and contriubte...

Sorry this turned out so long. Even if you don't feel comfortable answering any of the questions, at least think about them yourself.

I appreciate your further probing and questions. Hopefully this information will help you offer some advice.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I could hear a lot of me in a past relationship in OP, so I thought I would just share. I was dating someone who sounds a lot like your current BF. I especially can relate to your feelings on kids, but because ex-BF was so staunchly against them, I sorta ignored my doubts. More importantly, he made me feel insecure in my/our future. He didn't have the big toys your BF did, but he made other life choices that were similarly unsettling in terms of the idea of imagining starting a family with him (addicted to work, short fuse, etc.)

I knew I wanted to break up, but it was hard because I had so much invested, and there was a lot of good in our relationship. When we did, I had a lot of doubts, missed some things, etc, but more than anything, I was even more aware of how much I'd let him treat me like a doormat (similar chores situation, similar money situation). Then, a few months later, I met my current BF. Nothing can ever show you how wrong your past relationship was for you like one that's right. For one thing, I have 180'd on kids. BF wants them, and makes me feel totally secure about the idea of having them with him, and gets excited about the idea of raising them with me. I realized that before it wasn't that I didn't want kids so much as that I wasn't at all open to having them with someone like ex-BF.

While there's give and take in every relationship, I don't think your style of giving and taking is compatible with your current BF's. It sounds like you are willing to spoil BF, well then, you need someone who also has your "spoil my SO" mentality, and your BF needs a woman who also has a mind to protect what's hers and wouldn't let him take advantage of her. I remember thinking, when I was with ex-BF, well, this is just how men today are; spoiled, afraid of commitment, etc. Now I guess I think that was just an excuse so I wouldn't have to start over. I won't say BF isn't without his flaws because he totally isn't, but they aren't the things that drove me crazy and honestly, really hurt my feelings with ex-BF.

I guess what I am saying is, you were a kid when you picked out your BF, and you're an adult with adult judgment. I think you'll do a better job this time, and be able to have a sense for flaws that you can live with, and flaws you can't. Now go get some fresh makeup and a flattering new dress and start imagining a clean slate

Hi suchende-your situation sounds very similar to how I'm feeling at the moment. I really appreciate you sharing your story and hope that I can have the courage to do as you have done if our serious talk doesn't end up going well. You're right, I was a kid when I met him, and had just come off a bad long term relationship to boot. I'm still young, but I feel like I do know more about what I want now than I did then.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

With respect to how to go about separating your lives, first, make a decision. To me, it sounds like you already have your answer.

I'm working on finding that answer, that's for sure. I think in my heart I know, but I don't think I'm ready to admit it yet.

Next, what you do is Prepare Prepare PREPARE. Prepare for this to get ugly, but hope that it does not.

Research and make arrangements for a place to stay - friends, cheap rentals, etc. Decide when is the best time to separate. Your bf will need time to find a place too, and you have to give your landlord notice.

If it's going to dissolve, our lease end would be most convienient towards the end of June. It'll still be uncomfortable for a period of time since we have to give 60 days notice.

Do you have any joint accounts? Those have to be cancelled or separated, in case his irresponsible self decides to rack up a ton of debt under it.

We have no joint accounts, he's been adamant about being separate. We only have a few shared assets of furniture that can be easily divided I think.

Start saving! As much as you can. You may need to pay for two places (plus utilities) at the same time. You'll need a security deposit for your new place. You have to pay for moving expenses. Do you need a new means of transportation to your new place? a new job?

I have my own car and friends that could help me move if that's how it goes. My job is local and is secure and stable, no worries there.

Plus, there's what I'll call "the recent ex factor". He could destroy your current home and lose your security deposit. He could stop paying his portion of the bills. He could throw your clothes onto the street. It probably won't happen, but it doesn't hurt as badly if you have a financial bumper. Take these months to save, save Save!

His name is on our place as much as mine is so he wouldn't deliberately destroy anything. If anything, I think we're both going to be dreadfully hurt by this, not upset, or angry. If we break up, it's not going to be because we don't love each other or because one of us did something wrong, it'll be because we're just not comptaible long term.

Also, start focusing on yourself! If you've been letting yourself go, well, no time like break-up time to start hitting the gym. Go for runs/walks. Join a recreational sports league. You'll meet people that way too. Or go volunteer your time (if you have time). See your friends. Nuture your close friendships, if you've been letting them lag.

True, I need to get myself back together.

Once you have prepared to the best of your ability, break it to him gently and calmly. Before that, I suggest telling him what you're not happy with as soon as possible, and asking him to make an effort at changing. It doesn't sound like you believe that could happen, given how long things have been progressing this way for; however, I still think you should talk to him about your concerns.

I agree, I'm not ready to say that it's over. I'm ready to talk about it. I'm ready to face the fact that we have issues that aren't working. I'm ready to say this is something we need to fix together, or that it's just not going to work.

For one, it gives him an opportunity to change. If he doesn't, then you know your answer. Secondly, you don't want him saying, "I'll change, I'll change" once you're attempting to break up with him, and approaching the June re-lease date. Give him that opportunity now. That way, you can be sure of the break-up and break it off cleanly, without having to go back and forth.

Agreed.

Good luck. I know this seems like a lot... but in the grand scheme of things, you are just taking steps to set yourself up for a better life. You deserve someone who has the same vision, goals and direction in life, and more importantly, treats you with the respect and partnership you deserve. These incompatibilities are not going to disappear - not with a ring, not with a marriage. Take the bull by the horns, and do what's right for you and your future children.

 

[amc80]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I'm not sure if I'm going to add anything that hasn't already been said. But, I wanted to start off by giving you props for writing out such a well thought out, logical, objective post. You aren't (well, mostly aren't) blaming him and saying you are 100% right. You are simply stating those things that you can foresee being problematic in the future.

Those things you listed are huge. I think the biggest is the kid thing. You say you may want them, even though you didn't in the past. Answer this question- if your doctor told you TODAY that you had some condition that meant you couldn't have children, how would you feel? Relieved? Depressed? Angry? Well, marrying him is basically the same thing. He 100% has the right to say he doesn't want kids, just like you have the right to be with someone who does.

I think it's important that you aren't trying to change him. You realize you are 500 miles away on many issues, and the most you're asking is to meet in the middle. That's great. But when it comes down to it, wouldn't you rather have someone that is a bit closer? Because remember, for you guys to even meet in the middle means you will have to change/give up a lot. Wouldn't you rather have someone who was only 50 miles away?

I really think you have already answered your own questions, and that deep inside you know what you need to do. I'm guessing you're young (maybe mid-20s?). You are in love with the person you met when you were 18. But you're not 18 anymore, neither is he.

Final question- if you met your bf today, would you even date him?

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I'm not sure if I'm going to add anything that hasn't already been said. But, I wanted to start off by giving you props for writing out such a well thought out, logical, objective post. You aren't (well, mostly aren't) blaming him and saying you are 100% right. You are simply stating those things that you can foresee being problematic in the future.

Those things you listed are huge. I think the biggest is the kid thing. You say you may want them, even though you didn't in the past. Answer this question- if your doctor told you TODAY that you had some condition that meant you couldn't have children, how would you feel? Relieved? Depressed? Angry? Well, marrying him is basically the same thing. He 100% has the right to say he doesn't want kids, just like you have the right to be with someone who does.

I think it's important that you aren't trying to change him. You realize you are 500 miles away on many issues, and the most you're asking is to meet in the middle. That's great. But when it comes down to it, wouldn't you rather have someone that is a bit closer? Because remember, for you guys to even meet in the middle means you will have to change/give up a lot. Wouldn't you rather have someone who was only 50 miles away?

I really think you have already answered your own questions, and that deep inside you know what you need to do. I'm guessing you're young (maybe mid-20s?). You are in love with the person you met when you were 18. But you're not 18 anymore, neither is he.

Final question- if you met your bf today, would you even date him?

I am 24.

Thank you. I'm trying to be logial and think responsibly. This is not his fault. This is not my fault. This is we met at 18, fell in love, and now that we're getting to the age of marriage and children, we're (I think he has some thoughts too) thinking that maybe we're not as compatible as we thought we were. I don't want either of us to change things we don't want to change. I would love to see us meet in the middle, but knowing him as well as I think I do, I'm not sure he's going to bend on some things, particularly the money issue.

In terms of kids and the hypothetical, I'd be okay with it. Mostly, since I haven't really decided for me if it's something I wanted, it would be like nature deciding for me. Kids is something I think I can be flexibile on, if we were bang on good at everything else. But like a previous poster pointed out, maybe I'd be more inclined to want them if I was with someone who wanted them and was enthusiastic about going through the process.

In terms of whether or not I'd date him today, that's a good question, and honestly, I don't know. I'm still atttracted to him and there are a lot of qualities that I love about him, but some of them that didn't bother me so much when I was younger (being selfish, for instance), bother me more now. Would I go out with him if I was asked? Probably yes. Would I get to the level of relationship we have now if we had just met, I'm inclined to think maybe not.

 

[amc80]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Would I go out with him if I was asked? Probably yes. Would I get to the level of relationship we have now if we had just met, I'm inclined to think maybe not.

I think this is your answer. As you get old and mature, you realize things that are important to you in a committed relationship. With each relationship (and getting older), you are able to refine things, and become more equipped to make better choices.

I met my ex when I was 25. If I met him today, at 30? No way I would go on more than a few dates with him. Just like the guy who might seem boring when you're 24 seems stable and responsible when you're 30.

What is important is you are very clear as to what you want. Some of those things just are negotiable. And why would anyone want to marry someone who is always planning for divorce? That would really bother me, before I could even tackle the other issues.

 

[beesha77]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

"8. Does he actually WANT to get married? It seems weird that someone who is so paranoid about divorce would actually be willing to get married in the first place. Let's say you guys take marriage and kids off the table all together...does he see you in his future? Does he want to spend the rest of his life with you? Or is he comfortable with the idea of spending it alone or with someone else?

I think so...we used to talk about it (it hasn't come up in a long time) about "when we get married", blah blah blah. I do agree that it's strange for him to be for it when he's so afraid of it, but like I said earlier, he hates being alone. I think he wants to be married with someone who's just as protective of their 'things'. I think he sees me in his future, but again, not something we've talked about in awhile. We always talk about where we'll live one day the kind of house we'd like to have, but his vision also includes fancy planes and boats and things. Stuff stuff stuff. I don't know that his is comfortable with idea of being with someone else, but I'm his first serious relationship, he is not mine. I've been through this before, he hasn't. I think I can see in his eyes sometimes that he knows we just don't want the same things, but I guess we're both afraid of not being together and neither of us have said anything about it. "

I think you said it in your response. He doesn't like being alone. He's scared of a divorce, but he's got it made. He's able to live with you, not being married and he's not alone. I agree with the others, you know your answer. When your gut is telling you something, it's usually right.

 

[TooPatient]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I think that you've got a pretty clear answer here.

IF you decide to speak with him (and I think you should just so you don't have any doubts later) and see if things improve, I would suggest that a thing to suggest is that rather than paying to rent an airplane for all those hours, you both sit down and work out a budget so that he can buy one. (now... hear me out) It sounds like a lot of your problems come from him keeping finances completely separate and not having a shared goal.
I think you can reasonably give him something to see as a shared goal that might be the thing he needs to get him back to the spot where you both worked together.

Look at Trade-A-Plane to start with. There are used airplanes starting pretty inexpensive (compared to rental time!) and there are also kits available so he could build his own. I'd be happy to give advice about what questions to ask before buying, what you want to look for, etc. -- This would actually be a reasonable shared goal to work towards (if planned for correctly) since it would allow him to do the flying he enjoys (plus a never ending supply of other projects ranging from computer simulators to sewing to riveting to....) and also be a great couple thing. Imagine being able to fly somewhere for the weekend (including fly-in camp areas) or go to lunch somewhere new or .....
Oh.... and a lot of the projects are actually kind of fun and make for nice work-together things.


ETA: FI has his private & commercial license with ratings for IFR, VFR, single-engine, & twin-engine (I'm missing something ) and will be getting his seaplane rating in the next couple of years after I get my private pilot's license (with IFR/VFR/single-engine ratings). We are currently restoring a 5-seat, single-engine, aerobatic warbird.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I think that you've got a pretty clear answer here.

IF you decide to speak with him (and I think you should just so you don't have any doubts later) and see if things improve, I would suggest that a thing to suggest is that rather than paying to rent an airplane for all those hours, you both sit down and work out a budget so that he can buy one. (now... hear me out) It sounds like a lot of your problems come from him keeping finances completely separate and not having a shared goal.
I think you can reasonably give him something to see as a shared goal that might be the thing he needs to get him back to the spot where you both worked together.

Look at Trade-A-Plane to start with. There are used airplanes starting pretty inexpensive (compared to rental time!) and there are also kits available so he could build his own. I'd be happy to give advice about what questions to ask before buying, what you want to look for, etc. -- This would actually be a reasonable shared goal to work towards (if planned for correctly) since it would allow him to do the flying he enjoys (plus a never ending supply of other projects ranging from computer simulators to sewing to riveting to....) and also be a great couple thing. Imagine being able to fly somewhere for the weekend (including fly-in camp areas) or go to lunch somewhere new or .....
Oh.... and a lot of the projects are actually kind of fun and make for nice work-together things.


ETA: FI has his private & commercial license with ratings for IFR, VFR, single-engine, & twin-engine (I'm missing something ) and will be getting his seaplane rating in the next couple of years after I get my private pilot's license (with IFR/VFR/single-engine ratings). We are currently restoring a 5-seat, single-engine, aerobatic warbird.

I definitely plan on speaking with. I think I owe it to both of us to lay it all out on the table. The things with the planes is, I don't like it very much. I'm sensitive to the turbulence, I HATE the clouds, and (we live in FL), most of the year the heat makes me feel ill. He dreams of owning a plane, to me, it sounds like people I know who own boats. They may be fun some of the time, but most owners I know will tell you the best days of having one were they day the bought it and the day they sold it. Again *for me* it's not something I enjoy or wish to spend money on.

As to your idea, I had tried that. Not for buying a plane, but for budgeting to *afford* a reasonable amount of time in one. He doesn't want to hear it. In working together and budgeting, things get better for me (not footing the bill for all the groceries, getting extra money at the end of the month to put towards my loans, etc), but worse for him (less time/money for flying, having to buy more groceries, etc). It's not in *his* best interest to work on this.

BF (I think) sees himself with someone *like you*. He comments all the time about how great it would be for me to get my license and how we could buy planes and fly all around. It's just not something that I enjoy or get excited about. It makes me sad that I'm not that girl for him, but if I'm totally honest, I'm not.

I want him to have all the things he wants out of life because I love him. But I also don't feel that it's fair for me to help finance his toys and hobbies when he can't even meet me halfway with financial disclosures, cooking dinner, and cleaning toilets.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Firstly, you've received a wealth of really wonderful advice. Honestly I don't have much to add. I think that you're so very wise to be thinking about this now. I met my ex husband when I was young. I moved in and we married waaay too fast. I am extremely fortunate to have come away from that marriage a much healthier, happier person but for several years I was in the same situation you are in regarding doubts and feeling taken advantage of. You're a giver. You need to be with someone who won't take advantage of your generosity and take you for granted to an extreme.

I guess my only suggestion(s) are regarding how to tackle trying to work it out before calling it quits. I did this and it helped a LOT with self doubts and second guessing my decision to leave. My ex would have gone on like we were forever because he's a creature of habit, and had it made the same as your ex - me contributing, working full time, caring for our 2 kids 95% independent of him AND doing ALL of the house work & bill paying. I had NO life beyond mother/worker/housekeeper/bedmate (which I cut off and moved into my own room about a year and a half before the actual divorce). I had no idea who I even was. I was miserable and miserable to be around because of it! Please, don't let that happen to you.

Anyhow...back to the working on it thing. I would make a list of everything that you do - work X hrs a week, all shopping, all of the chores (list them ALL out). Then next to that write out all that he does. An honest, complete list. Then show it to him and ask him if he thinks that's how it should be. If he says no, and that he truly didn't realize it (I don't know how, but giving him the chance to prove himself), then ask him to sit down and make a revised responsibility list that shares the load EQUALLY. You are working just as much as him. You're actually earning more than him (don't rub it in, I'm just saying in terms of equality, EVERYTHING should be split).

It's time for him to be a big boy and buy his own #@$#@$ soap, etc....seriously. I would just stop making his life so ridiculously comfy and easy. If he asks you to get something for him, politely say "I'm sorry honey, but I really don't want to." and move on. You need to be selfish. I know it's hard, but this man may love you like no other...but his actions are not thoughtful, considerate or respectful. He needs an opportunity to correct it, but he absolutely will not do that until he has it spelled out in black and white that he isn't fulfilling his responsibilities. You aren't his mother. You're his girlfriend. You're successful, responsible, clearly very intelligent and deserving of a man that will give his 70% (or more!) to make the 50/50.

One final thing. My mother and father to this day operate on the "she gives 110%, he gives -10%" thing. At this point, 37 years into marriage, my mom is a hollow shell of a woman and I never even get her to visit because she can't leave him alone - he doesn't even get his own drinks, never even leaves the house. I guess that's part of why I'm giving the "DON'T KEEP DOING THIS!!!" advice. It's only going to get worse, as you've already seen first hand.

*BIG HUGS*

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

"8. Does he actually WANT to get married? It seems weird that someone who is so paranoid about divorce would actually be willing to get married in the first place. Let's say you guys take marriage and kids off the table all together...does he see you in his future? Does he want to spend the rest of his life with you? Or is he comfortable with the idea of spending it alone or with someone else?

I think so...we used to talk about it (it hasn't come up in a long time) about "when we get married", blah blah blah. I do agree that it's strange for him to be for it when he's so afraid of it, but like I said earlier, he hates being alone. I think he wants to be married with someone who's just as protective of their 'things'. I think he sees me in his future, but again, not something we've talked about in awhile. We always talk about where we'll live one day the kind of house we'd like to have, but his vision also includes fancy planes and boats and things. Stuff stuff stuff. I don't know that his is comfortable with idea of being with someone else, but I'm his first serious relationship, he is not mine. I've been through this before, he hasn't. I think I can see in his eyes sometimes that he knows we just don't want the same things, but I guess we're both afraid of not being together and neither of us have said anything about it. "

I think you said it in your response. He doesn't like being alone. He's scared of a divorce, but he's got it made. He's able to live with you, not being married and he's not alone. I agree with the others, you know your answer. When your gut is telling you something, it's usually right.

You're right, he does have it made. You guys are all helping me see what I've been trying to convince myself doesn't exist and isn't a problem. I still want and need to talk to him. I really feel I owe us the chance to try to change over the next few months, I'm at my wits end and if things don't change, I can't keep living like this.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

BTW - it sounds like your BF has forgotten that grown ups are supposed to pay bills, buy their own food and supplies THEN spend on play time. It's not even remotely fair for you to foot the bill for his necessities if he COULD pay them, but doesn't because he wants to spend his money on something recreational that you don't even enjoy.

ETA: Honestly, rent is costly but day to day expenses that he's not covering (if he's not paying for ANY food or supplies especially) quickly eat up any money you're 'saving' by staying there. I would look at the money that you've spent on these items, split it by 50% and tell him he needs to give you that much money to contribute. Again, a lot of this boils down to you just needing to stand up for yourself - both in terms of effort and finances.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Would I go out with him if I was asked? Probably yes. Would I get to the level of relationship we have now if we had just met, I'm inclined to think maybe not.

I think this is your answer. As you get old and mature, you realize things that are important to you in a committed relationship. With each relationship (and getting older), you are able to refine things, and become more equipped to make better choices.

I met my ex when I was 25. If I met him today, at 30? No way I would go on more than a few dates with him. Just like the guy who might seem boring when you're 24 seems stable and responsible when you're 30.

What is important is you are very clear as to what you want. Some of those things just are negotiable. And why would anyone want to marry someone who is always planning for divorce? That would really bother me, before I could even tackle the other issues.

This is true. It makes me worry that the cycle will continue though and that at 30 a new SO I met at 25 is no longer 'right, and 35 the guy from 30 is wrong, etc etc. How do you know when it's actually right?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

You know that it's actually right when it's not so much effort, you either have the same common goals/morals/views, or if you don't, BOTH of you are willing to work together to get to a comfortable spot.

Another way is...little by little, you just don't have to ask the question. You just know. Corny, but true! Honestly, by 25-30 you have a MUCH better sense of who you are and what you want. You already do that now. Back when you met your BF, you probably didn't even think about the things you are pondering now, much less put them into perspective for your relationship.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Firstly, you've received a wealth of really wonderful advice. Honestly I don't have much to add. I think that you're so very wise to be thinking about this now. I met my ex husband when I was young. I moved in and we married waaay too fast. I am extremely fortunate to have come away from that marriage a much healthier, happier person but for several years I was in the same situation you are in regarding doubts and feeling taken advantage of. You're a giver. You need to be with someone who won't take advantage of your generosity and take you for granted to an extreme.

This is something I'm worried about, continuing on this path because we've been here so long is not a reason to keep going. I am a giver, BF is a taker. This wasn't so much a problem until we both let it go too far.

I guess my only suggestion(s) are regarding how to tackle trying to work it out before calling it quits. I did this and it helped a LOT with self doubts and second guessing my decision to leave. My ex would have gone on like we were forever because he's a creature of habit, and had it made the same as your ex - me contributing, working full time, caring for our 2 kids 95% independent of him AND doing ALL of the house work & bill paying. I had NO life beyond mother/worker/housekeeper/bedmate (which I cut off and moved into my own room about a year and a half before the actual divorce). I had no idea who I even was. I was miserable and miserable to be around because of it! Please, don't let that happen to you.

Anyhow...back to the working on it thing. I would make a list of everything that you do - work X hrs a week, all shopping, all of the chores (list them ALL out). Then next to that write out all that he does. An honest, complete list. Then show it to him and ask him if he thinks that's how it should be. If he says no, and that he truly didn't realize it (I don't know how, but giving him the chance to prove himself), then ask him to sit down and make a revised responsibility list that shares the load EQUALLY. You are working just as much as him. You're actually earning more than him (don't rub it in, I'm just saying in terms of equality, EVERYTHING should be split).

I'm loving this idea. I say all the time that he doesn't participate around the house and he always says he does. I don't think he really even realizes how MUCH I do and pay for and how LITTLE he does and pays for. Despite making more than him, he's always asking why I have no money left at the end of the month. He doesn' seem to get how much groceries, soap, toilet paper, laundry detergent, pet food, vet bills, etc add up to.

It's time for him to be a big boy and buy his own #@$#@$ soap, etc....seriously. I would just stop making his life so ridiculously comfy and easy. If he asks you to get something for him, politely say "I'm sorry honey, but I really don't want to." and move on. You need to be selfish. I know it's hard, but this man may love you like no other...but his actions are not thoughtful, considerate or respectful. He needs an opportunity to correct it, but he absolutely will not do that until he has it spelled out in black and white that he isn't fulfilling his responsibilities. You aren't his mother. You're his girlfriend. You're successful, responsible, clearly very intelligent and deserving of a man that will give his 70% (or more!) to make the 50/50.

This is something I have trouble with. Since I am a giver/caretaker I have a hard time saying no, hence why it's gotten so bad. He loves being doted on, his grandmother (until the day she passed) and his mother (still does) dotes on him badly. And you're right, he claims to be a grown up and live on his own and take care of himself, and yet, he didn't even know that our last 3 apartments have had dishwashers.

One final thing. My mother and father to this day operate on the "she gives 110%, he gives -10%" thing. At this point, 37 years into marriage, my mom is a hollow shell of a woman and I never even get her to visit because she can't leave him alone - he doesn't even get his own drinks, never even leaves the house. I guess that's part of why I'm giving the "DON'T KEEP DOING THIS!!!" advice. It's only going to get worse, as you've already seen first hand.

This is definitely not how I want my life to be and what it seems to be evolving into. He can be sitting there watching TV after work, get up to go to the bathroom (which is past the kitchen mind you) come back, sit down, and ask me to get him something to eat/drink from the ktichen. It's frustrating.

*BIG HUGS*

Thanks for your hugs/advice and story. I appreciate all of you ladies more than you know.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

BTW - it sounds like your BF has forgotten that grown ups are supposed to pay bills, buy their own food and supplies THEN spend on play time. It's not even remotely fair for you to foot the bill for his necessities if he COULD pay them, but doesn't because he wants to spend his money on something recreational that you don't even enjoy.

ETA: Honestly, rent is costly but day to day expenses that he's not covering (if he's not paying for ANY food or supplies especially) quickly eat up any money you're 'saving' by staying there. I would look at the money that you've spent on these items, split it by 50% and tell him he needs to give you that much money to contribute. Again, a lot of this boils down to you just needing to stand up for yourself - both in terms of effort and finances.

The costs really do add up. We have some serious talking to do.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

You know that it's actually right when it's not so much effort, you either have the same common goals/morals/views, or if you don't, BOTH of you are willing to work together to get to a comfortable spot.

Another way is...little by little, you just don't have to ask the question. You just know. Corny, but true! Honestly, by 25-30 you have a MUCH better sense of who you are and what you want. You already do that now. Back when you met your BF, you probably didn't even think about the things you are pondering now, much less put them into perspective for your relationship.

I want to find this. Another issue we have is that BF and I are both strong type A personalities. We both like to be in charge. This doesn't work in a relationship. So I end up being more passive in my relationship than I am in every other aspect of my life. Being "take charge" is something I also miss.

 

[suchende]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

The funny thing is, your BF sounds like a really neat person. His hobbies are interesting and fun, and, aside from your paying his way in terms of household expenses (yikes, stop doing that right away, seriously, you need that money for the next step in your life) he's doing okay living within his means. He's doing just what I would want, say, my 24 year old son to be doing at that age: enjoying his youth and child-free years. It's sorta like that 50-cent song, "She should have what she wants, just not from me." It's great that he's doing those things, but not cool that you're taking care of everything else to enable his fun life.

Also, w/r/t telling him and seeing if he changes, that sounds like a recipe for later resentment. Seems like he's living life how he wants to, and like you said above about sharing finances, you want him to want to treat you differently. If that's not in the cards, he's just not the right person for you at this point in your life.