breaking news: House defeats $700B financial markets bailout

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 9/29/2008 5:20:18 PM
Author: bee*

Date: 9/29/2008 3:55:05 PM
Author: elle_chris
It''s starting to hit Europe too. Fortis bank went down over the weekend.

Yep they''re scared for some of our banks over here also.


Sending prayers for all of you guys in the US. It will be rough but you guys can get through it.

Well, I have a feeling what affects us will impact many other parts of the world. It is a worldwide economy now.

 

[strmrdr]

Ron Paul on the dollar problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBVB1Uc0nko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhB_0yeHm8U&NR=1
He says a lot that I agree with.

 

[shel]

Date: 9/29/2008 3:33:59 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I moved out of all my stock positions in February. Nothing to be scared of. As for banking, I don''t keep more than $100K in any one place.

Just be sure to get back INTO stocks when you think prices have reached a (relative) nadir.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/29/2008 4:30:00 PM
Author: Allisonfaye
I am amazed at how many people think that this isn''t going to affect them. If the value of the dollar is plunging, it ain''t gonna matter if you have it stuffed into your mattress because it won''t BUY ANYTHING. This is not just about people buying a house that they couldn''t afford. It is about international banking being halted and payrolls not being made because banks won''t lend to each other because they have no capital. To all of you people who think this doesn''t or won''t affect you, you are in for a rude awakening. Millions of people could lose their jobs.

The bail out would have tanked the dollar worse than what is happening in the long run.
With the bail out main street loses 3 times, 1: stocks drops short and long term 2: dollar drops like a rock 3: pay more taxes.

Without the bailout: 1: stock market drops 2: dollar drops short term but not long term.

So with we pay 700 billion 3-4 times over.
Without we only lose 700 billion 1.25 times.

Put people in jail for fraud who were pushing these investments and loans then come and talk to me about bailing the rest of the people out but not before.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/29/2008 5:28:50 PM
Author: shel

Date: 9/29/2008 3:33:59 PM

Author: purrfectpear

I moved out of all my stock positions in February. Nothing to be scared of. As for banking, I don''t keep more than $100K in any one place.

Just be sure to get back INTO stocks when you think prices have reached a (relative) nadir.

Why so short sellers can run it back down again to steal money?
Frankly I think anyone who pulled out or hasn''t been in the market would be better staying out.
Wall Street can go trade with their own money instead of main streets for a change.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 9/29/2008 5:35:50 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 9/29/2008 5:28:50 PM
Author: shel

Date: 9/29/2008 3:33:59 PM

Author: purrfectpear

I moved out of all my stock positions in February. Nothing to be scared of. As for banking, I don''t keep more than $100K in any one place.

Just be sure to get back INTO stocks when you think prices have reached a (relative) nadir.

Why so short sellers can run it back down again to steal money?
Frankly I think anyone who pulled out or hasn''t been in the market would be better staying out.
Wall Street can go trade with their own money instead of main streets for a change.

You can try to believe that Main Street isn''t affected or involved with WS but it just isn''t true. That''s just not going to happen.

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 9/29/2008 4:47:39 PM
Author: phoenixgirl
One of my newspaper students was bemoaning the fact that she thinks all this economy news is boring, so I came up with some example of, say, somebody who works at a clothing store or restaurant. Well, when prices of food and gas are way up, and the investments of the wealthier people who usually drive our economy plummet (or become inaccessible temporarily as buy-outs happen), then Sally Store Worker/Waitress is going to lose her job because nobody is going to spend $ of stuff that isn''t essential. So then Sally will have to give up her apartment and move back in with her parents, and the guy who bought the condo Sally was renting as an investment when it was worth 25% more won''t be able to find somebody else willing to rent it for that much and won''t make his mortgage and will declare bankruptcy, and Sally''s parents will have to postpone retirement because their investments aren''t what they were a year ago, etc., etc.

The student said, hmmm, you know, sales have been really down at where she works in a florist shop. And I said, right, see, it''s a domino effect; every little thing is interconnected.

And this conversation was weeks ago. This is much scarier/worse than before.

P.S. This has to affect our friends and members in the diamond industry.

Yup.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/29/2008 5:44:42 PM
Author: Allisonfaye

You can try to believe that Main Street isn''t affected or involved with WS but it just isn''t true. That''s just not going to happen.

We are only involved if we let our money be out in it.
The problem with this mess is that banking got to mixed up with the street rather than staying separate.
Frankly the dollar bombing is much more painful for me personally right now than anything the stock market does.
Long term the same is true for everyone.

 

[diagem]

Whats going on with the credit card companies???

They are being to quiet to my taste..., are they next on the list?

just thinking common sense...

 

[lovegem]

I think I am going to take all my money back to Canada and put it in a bank there. oh.. actually I don''t have any money to worry about.

Seriously, DH sold all the stocks and mutual funds last week. Lost quite a bit, but better have the money now than seeing it keeps on shrinking.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/29/2008 6:18:36 PM
Author: DiaGem
Whats going on with the credit card companies???


They are being to quiet to my taste..., are they next on the list?


just thinking common sense...

The banks that are the largest credit card issuers in the US are the ones that are doing the buying up of the failed wall street firms.
JP Morgan Chase is one of the largest if not the largest.

 

[strmrdr]

Wells Fargo is huge in the credit card game.
It dipped but recovered.

 

[CDNinNYC]

Date: 9/29/2008 6:18:36 PM
Author: DiaGem
Whats going on with the credit card companies???

They are being to quiet to my taste..., are they next on the list?

just thinking common sense...

I read earlier today that credit card companies are starting to increase their rates in order to recoup their lost earnings.

 

[diagem]

Date: 9/29/2008 6:26:07 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 9/29/2008 6:18:36 PM
Author: DiaGem
Whats going on with the credit card companies???


They are being to quiet to my taste..., are they next on the list?


just thinking common sense...

The banks that are the largest credit card issuers in the US are the ones that are doing the buying up of the failed wall street firms.
Chase is one of the largest if not the largest.

So..., does that translates to firm/steady ground position?

Their grounds are not shaking..., their $$$ credits out to the people is pretty safe?

I just think it can become an issue too..., hope I am wrong on this one...

 

[strmrdr]

Bank of America is huge in credit cards also.
Most of them are traditional banks and they sold off the toxic loans before they bombed rather than holding them or they were never in the game to start with.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/29/2008 6:31:47 PM
Author: DiaGem
So..., does that translates to firm/steady ground position?


Their grounds are not shaking..., their $$$ credits out to the people is pretty safe?


I just think it can become an issue too..., hope I am wrong on this one...

They tightened credit and raised rates for some people but overall while in a little danger its not as bad as the investment companies.
Some are even lowering the spending limit for some customers but they have been doing that for a while.
They have been dealing with it for a long time now and are used to it.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 9/29/2008 5:35:50 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 9/29/2008 5:28:50 PM
Author: shel

Date: 9/29/2008 3:33:59 PM

Author: purrfectpear

I moved out of all my stock positions in February. Nothing to be scared of. As for banking, I don''t keep more than $100K in any one place.

Just be sure to get back INTO stocks when you think prices have reached a (relative) nadir.

Why so short sellers can run it back down again to steal money?
Frankly I think anyone who pulled out or hasn''t been in the market would be better staying out.
Wall Street can go trade with their own money instead of main streets for a change.

You posted such great videos of Ron Paul, but then you want to regulate short sellers??

The short sellers keep the market in check and prevent LARGE corrections (such as this) from happening.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/29/2008 7:13:49 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady


The short sellers keep the market in check and prevent LARGE corrections (such as this) from happening.

That's what the same experts that caused the current mess would like you to believe.
They are wrong.
Look at how badly the natural gas market got messed up for consumers once they started playing with it.
It was a stable market and now its a mess that costs consumers billions.

 

[Allisonfaye]

If the credit card companies start experiencing defaults (and they will) they will have to mark their assets to market and they could go too.

Wachovia was trading much higher on Friday, too.

 

[strmrdr]

The current market that reacts strongly to every little short term thing prevents companies from investing in the long term.
Eliminating shorts and going with a graduated capital gains tax with a 90% tax on gains less than 7days will solve the problem nicely.
Then drop it down to 50% at 4 weeks 20% for 4 weeks to 10 years and 5% for 10+ years and 0% for 20+ years.
Make dividends tax free if rolled over into more stock, otherwise treat them as income.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 9/29/2008 3:33:59 PM
Author: purrfectpear
I moved out of all my stock positions in February. Nothing to be scared of. As for banking, I don''t keep more than $100K in any one place.

good then, can i borrow $200k ?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 9/29/2008 4:06:36 PM
Author: ~*Alexis*~
I just don''t get how some people can be so reckless.

*you went and got a mortgage for a house you could not afford+
*you do not have the income to pay back this mortage +
*you have a house which has depreciated in value+
* You cannot sell the house in this market


=your fault.

means Not MY FAULT! I should have have higher taxes because someone wanted to keep up with the Jones''....if that was the case I would go get K''s Mercedes (after Ellen of course

)

Some people are just plain dumb.

agree!

 

[~*Alexis*~]

The point of my post was that the regular tax payers who are not making half a million a year or less should not be penalized for people who were making over 500k a year and they went out and bought a 3 million mansion on an interest only mortgage and they defaulted on their loan because they were not making the payments.

It should not be the tax payers responsibility to bail out these people who we reckless. I pay my mortgage every month so why should i be the one to help pay for their bailout. I do not have the extra $$ every month to help someone else out with their bills. If that was the case I would be sending my mom and dad some $$ but I cannot afford to help out my own family much less my neighbor down the street who did not raise me.

 

[Allisonfaye]

Date: 9/29/2008 8:40:31 PM
Author: ~*Alexis*~
The point of my post was that the regular tax payers who are not making half a million a year or less should not be penalized for people who were making over 500k a year and they went out and bought a 3 million mansion on an interest only mortgage and they defaulted on their loan because they were not making the payments.

It should not be the tax payers responsibility to bail out these people who we reckless. I pay my mortgage every month so why should i be the one to help pay for their bailout. I do not have the extra $$ every month to help someone else out with their bills. If that was the case I would be sending my mom and dad some $$ but I cannot afford to help out my own family much less my neighbor down the street who did not raise me.

This is not about you bailing out some homeowners. This is about the possible collapse of the world economy. It really affects everyone. I assure you in the long run, it will cost the taxpayers way more when all these jobs are lost.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Date: 9/29/2008 5:14:39 PM
Author: cara

Date: 9/29/2008 4:06:36 PM

Author: ~*Alexis*~

I just don''t get how some people can be so reckless.

*you went and got a mortgage for a house you could not afford+

*you do not have the income to pay back this mortage +

*you have a house which has depreciated in value+

* You cannot sell the house in this market

=your fault.

I know exactly how it happens, I was sitting there with the loan officer 4 years ago telling us that housing never goes down around here, its a great investment and completely safe, goes up 10-15% per year every year, no one loses money in this area once you get in the game, its no problem to have 60% of our pay go to housing costs, its a high rent area, so of course banks are willing to let you take on more than the guideline amounts! This was the nice man from Citibank, not some fly-by-night operation! I am really glad my husband wanted meet with the mortgage guy so I could have the memory of this conversation, but of course even more glad that we did not buy.


But say you instead:

Bought a house you could afford at the top of the market a few years ago

Did have the income to pay the mortgage but now lost your job and need to move for a new one.

The house has dropped precipitously in value

You could sell it for a loss and cover it (painfully) with other savings but no one can get a loan to pay you because the banks have no money. So the house sits, you sit in the wrong place, dragging down the economy by being unemployed and minimizing your consumption.


I''m not saying the bailout would work, but there is a real risk that the credit meltdown will affect people that did nothing ''wrong'' and the lack of credit available will spiral into other areas of the economy. That''s why there are any politicians at all voting for this wildly unpopular piece of legislation.


Oh, and remember to save some of your annoyance for the suits who recklessly gave the loan to the person who couldn''t afford it, fluffed up the appraisal documents, repackaged the loan into a security no one could understand, sold it, and then sold an insurance policy on security to further confuse the people who look at balance sheets. And reserve a final wallop for the regulators and legislators that let it all happen.

<

The problem is that people bought houses when they didn''t have anything else to fall back on. No savings and no long term financial outlook. I can see where people would lose their jobs and whatnot but what about the people that caused this mess? They just get what? A slap on the wrist AND they get to keep their house? Just at a longer term mortgage and more interest while the rest of us sit in the houses we were smart about buying and struggle to make ends meet? I guess I just don''t get the logic of it all.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/29/2008 8:46:01 PM
Author: Allisonfaye

This is not about you bailing out some homeowners. This is about the possible collapse of the world economy. It really affects everyone. I assure you in the long run, it will cost the taxpayers way more when all these jobs are lost.

The bail out will tank the dollar and long term that is a worse problem.
Ron Paul said it well in the videos I linked above.

 

[strmrdr]

My rep gets my vote, he voted no.
His reasons are here:
http://manzullo.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=104074

“The American people today rejected the $700 billion taxpayer bailout of the bad investments of Wall Street. The American people did not cause this mess and loudly proclaimed that they demand a better deal. They were furious that those who caused the problem would be the ones to benefit at their expense. They recognized the solution offered was untested, expensive, and risky, while reasonable, cheaper, and proven solutions should have been given consideration by Congress."

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 9/29/2008 9:24:10 PM
Author: strmrdr
My rep gets my vote, he voted no.
His reasons are here:
http://manzullo.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=104074

“The American people today rejected the $700 billion taxpayer bailout of the bad investments of Wall Street. The American people did not cause this mess and loudly proclaimed that they demand a better deal. They were furious that those who caused the problem would be the ones to benefit at their expense. They recognized the solution offered was untested, expensive, and risky, while reasonable, cheaper, and proven solutions should have been given consideration by Congress.'

I dont agree with that, a lot of Americans most certainly contributed to it.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/29/2008 9:34:53 PM
Author: VegasAngel

Date: 9/29/2008 9:24:10 PM

Author: strmrdr

My rep gets my vote, he voted no.

His reasons are here:

http://manzullo.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=104074


“The American people today rejected the $700 billion taxpayer bailout of the bad investments of Wall Street. The American people did not cause this mess and loudly proclaimed that they demand a better deal. They were furious that those who caused the problem would be the ones to benefit at their expense. They recognized the solution offered was untested, expensive, and risky, while reasonable, cheaper, and proven solutions should have been given consideration by Congress.''

I dont agree with that, a lot of Americans most certainly contributed to it.

A very very small minority of Americans caused it.
A small minority contributed to it some by choice and some were fooled by crooks.
We the people as a whole who would end up paying for it did not.

 

[VegasAngel]

Yeah, we sure didnt. I bought my first place at 21 & understood my mortage, I dont feel sorry for people who claim they didnt/dont.

We will all be effected by what is going on bailout or not, whether we pay our bills or not, the worst part is the unknown. All we can do is speculate right now.

strmrdr/Karl ot: Do you watch Glenn Beck?