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Bought a CE Diamond & it''s beautiful...

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Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
7
I had been looking for a diamond for my girlfriend for weeks. I knew she wanted a big stone, but I could not afford a 2 carat diamond. Well, I took a chance and bought a 2.55 Princess Cut VS2 G/H for $5,500 from 47th St. Closeouts. It is absolutely gorgeous!!! During my shopping in local stores, I never saw any diamonds as beautiful as this one. It is clear and the clarity is incredible. Please note that this is not a advertisement for this company. I just want to let others know that a clarity enhanced diamond can be the way to go on budget.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
27,095
Congragulations.
It sounds like you found a stone you love!
That is what matters most.

I was just curious about the VS2 clarity.
I thought a CE stone''s clarity grade remained what it was *before* the clarity enhancement.
If so, why would they alter a VS2?
Which lab gave it VS2? GIA EGL AGS IGI?
Do you know if the VS2 grade was assigned before or after clarity enhancement?
Does an appraiser here or any pro know what the standard is for this?

Congratulations again.
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
Date: 12/26/2006 11:13:21 AM
Author: kenny
Congragulations.
It sounds like you found a stone you love!
That is what matters most.

I was just curious about the VS2 clarity.
I thought a CE stone''s clarity grade remained what it was *before* the clarity enhancement.
If so, why would they alter a VS2?
Which lab gave it VS2? GIA EGL AGS IGI?
Do you know if the VS2 grade was assigned before or after clarity enhancement?
Does an appraiser here or any pro know what the standard is for this?

Congratulations again.
The grading was most likely done AFTER the CE was done.

Grading it before that is difficult, as it is a GUESS at how much filler is in the stone.

GIA and AGS I believe will not grade CE fracture filled stones.

I believe EGL/ IGI will .

Rockdoc
 

sistagrl2004

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
329
Date: 12/26/2006 11:05:16 AM
Author:ceslade
I had been looking for a diamond for my girlfriend for weeks. I knew she wanted a big stone, but I could not afford a 2 carat diamond. Well, I took a chance and bought a 2.55 Princess Cut VS2 G/H for $5,500 from 47th St. Closeouts. It is absolutely gorgeous!!! During my shopping in local stores, I never saw any diamonds as beautiful as this one. It is clear and the clarity is incredible. Please note that this is not a advertisement for this company. I just want to let others know that a clarity enhanced diamond can be the way to go on budget.
Forgive me if I sound skeptical, but 1) This is your first post here, so why come now to tell about your new purchase? 2) where are the photos and other specs for this stone and 3) Why use an e-mail address as your screen name? These are all oddities in the message board relm.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,684
Date: 12/26/2006 11:13:21 AM
Author: kenny

Does an appraiser here or any pro know what the standard is for this?

Ceslade,

Congratulations!


Kenny,


Lack of standards for grading of CE diamonds is a serious problem. The familiar GIA scale that we''re all accustomed to doesn''t apply to enhanced stones and there is no generally accepted alternative scale that gets used. IGI, EGL-USA, EGL and several other labs have developed their own in-house language for describing them and it often they are very different from one lab to the next. The confusion is complicated by using similar terms to describe the various grades. GIA, AGS, HRD and many others, including mine, won’t issue grading reports on them for this reason. As an appraiser, it’s even more complicated because one of the standard rules of appraising is that you are almost always tasked with appraising what something is, not what it used to be or what it might become. It''s not telling a complete story to simply grade what you think it used to be before treatment. With some stones the treatment really does miracles while others it has no visible effect.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGAS(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,328
The chance of this diamond being a GIA VS2 is VERY slim. If it is clarity graded after CE treatment, then it is at best a meaningless grade and at worst a misleading grade. The major labs choose not to grade CE diamonds because of pressure put on them by diamond merchants to refuse to grade these stones and also some doubts the lab gurus have about how durable the treatments really are.

In my lab we do grade these as they appear at the time of the inspection and we also indicate clearly on the report the GIA related clarity grade we believe these stones originally were before treatment. Obviously, the VALUE is derived from pre-treatment clarity and has virtually nothing to do with the treated appearance. The saleability is increased when a diamond is treated to look better, but the cost and the value relate to the original, untreated diamond almost totally.

There is NOTHING wrong with a CE stone used in a pendant or earrings. Just realize that these treatments may degrade over time with exposure to heat, light and UV. Sometimes these diamonds are weak compared to non-treated, higher clarity stones. Some CE treated diamonds amaze experts that they stayed in one piece during their cutting. CE does make low clarity diamonds look very nice and it is a viable route for people to consider under the right circumstances.

Very few, if any, GIA VS2 clarity diamonds are ever treated by CE to mask their VS2 inclusions. It would rarely be necessary or worthwhile. I think there may be some issue with the clarity of this particular diamond.
 

findarock

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
103
I am looking for an ering for my GF , soon to be fiancee. Could you provide some pictures, and the answers to the peoples questions below, I am always searching for a great deal. Since I am inexperienced I dont want to get ripped off.
 

[email protected]

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
7
Date: 12/26/2006 11:13:21 AM
Author: kenny
Congragulations.
It sounds like you found a stone you love!
That is what matters most.

I was just curious about the VS2 clarity.
I thought a CE stone''s clarity grade remained what it was *before* the clarity enhancement.
If so, why would they alter a VS2?
Which lab gave it VS2? GIA EGL AGS IGI?
Do you know if the VS2 grade was assigned before or after clarity enhancement?
Does an appraiser here or any pro know what the standard is for this?

Congratulations again.
Sorry for my late reply. The grade for clarity is after the CE has been completed. I don''t know what the clarity was prior to the enhancement of the stone. I can say that I saw a lot of stones in the S1 - S3 or I1-I3 range that don''t compare to my fiancee''s CE stone. The stone was appraised by UGL. I know that UGL is not one of the highly recommended sources for valuation of stones, but I am certain I could sell the ring for at least 2 times what I paid for it. I saw 2 carat princess cut stones in retail shops and online for prices of $15,000+ with much lower clarity and color grades, but none of them compare to the color and clarity of this stone. Bottom line is that I did not buy the stone as an investment, so if it does not last forever or does not increase in value I will not be disappointed. My fiancee got a 2.55 carat stone for the price of an overpriced nice 1.00 carat stone. I''ll post pics this weekend.
 

[email protected]

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
7
Date: 12/26/2006 12:03:15 PM
Author: sistagrl2004

Date: 12/26/2006 11:05:16 AM
Author:ceslade
I had been looking for a diamond for my girlfriend for weeks. I knew she wanted a big stone, but I could not afford a 2 carat diamond. Well, I took a chance and bought a 2.55 Princess Cut VS2 G/H for $5,500 from 47th St. Closeouts. It is absolutely gorgeous!!! During my shopping in local stores, I never saw any diamonds as beautiful as this one. It is clear and the clarity is incredible. Please note that this is not a advertisement for this company. I just want to let others know that a clarity enhanced diamond can be the way to go on budget.
Forgive me if I sound skeptical, but 1) This is your first post here, so why come now to tell about your new purchase? 2) where are the photos and other specs for this stone and 3) Why use an e-mail address as your screen name? These are all oddities in the message board relm.
1) I was just letting other people know that a CE stone worth investigating. I have not affiliation to any seller CE diamonds. I am sure that there are other men that wish they could save several thousand dollars by purchasing a CE stone. I gambled and it paid off. The jeweler offered a 30 day refund policy, so worst case scenario I would have sent it back.

2) I will post photos and specs this weekend.

3) I used my e-mail address by mistake and not for solicitation purposes.

When you see the pics, you will understand why my fiancee is so pleased with the rock.
 

anne_h

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
972
Hi Ceslade,

Yes, please do post the pics. I''m curious to see...

Anne
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
27,095
Sorry but you cannot sell any stone for twice what you paid for it, CE or not.

In fact none of us can sell a stone for what we paid for it.
50% is more like it.

Why?
You and I buy at retail but must sell at wholesale.
That is why diamonds are not an investment.
Prices would have to double for us to just break even.

And you are not 'saving" thousands of dollars by buying a CE stone.
You got what you paid for.
You paid for a CE stone and you got a CE stone.
If you sell it the buyer can identify it as CE and it will be priced accordingly.

Yes to the untrained naked eye it looks as good as much more expensive stones.
I'm glad you are happy with it and I hope she loves it but let's not be inaccurate or pretend you have discovered how to get something for nothing.
 

[email protected]

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
7
Date: 12/26/2006 2:44:01 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 12/26/2006 11:13:21 AM
Author: kenny

Does an appraiser here or any pro know what the standard is for this?

Ceslade,

Congratulations!



Kenny,



Lack of standards for grading of CE diamonds is a serious problem. The familiar GIA scale that we''re all accustomed to doesn''t apply to enhanced stones and there is no generally accepted alternative scale that gets used. IGI, EGL-USA, EGL and several other labs have developed their own in-house language for describing them and it often they are very different from one lab to the next. The confusion is complicated by using similar terms to describe the various grades. GIA, AGS, HRD and many others, including mine, won’t issue grading reports on them for this reason. As an appraiser, it’s even more complicated because one of the standard rules of appraising is that you are almost always tasked with appraising what something is, not what it used to be or what it might become. It''s not telling a complete story to simply grade what you think it used to be before treatment. With some stones the treatment really does miracles while others it has no visible effect.



Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGAS(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
Thanks,

I agree with your comments. It would be nice to know what was done to the stone. I am not a jeweler or an appraiser, but as clear as this stone looks the CE process must had done miracles to this stone. It is simply unbelievable. If I put this stone beside others I have seen in mall retail shops, there is no comparison. I took it to a few jewelry shops and the managers were amazed by the stone. You cannot see any flaws or carbon spots from the top of the stone. From beneath, there is one black spot that is visible. Since no one is going to view the stone with a scope, the illusion of having a perfect stone is all to my fiancee. Plus we end up have $25,000 left to spend on a home, wedding, vacation... Take a look at the 47th st closeouts website and give me your opinion on the stones listed. I''ll post pics this weekend.
 

[email protected]

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
7
Date: 12/27/2006 3:28:43 PM
Author: oldminer
The chance of this diamond being a GIA VS2 is VERY slim. If it is clarity graded after CE treatment, then it is at best a meaningless grade and at worst a misleading grade. The major labs choose not to grade CE diamonds because of pressure put on them by diamond merchants to refuse to grade these stones and also some doubts the lab gurus have about how durable the treatments really are.

In my lab we do grade these as they appear at the time of the inspection and we also indicate clearly on the report the GIA related clarity grade we believe these stones originally were before treatment. Obviously, the VALUE is derived from pre-treatment clarity and has virtually nothing to do with the treated appearance. The saleability is increased when a diamond is treated to look better, but the cost and the value relate to the original, untreated diamond almost totally.

There is NOTHING wrong with a CE stone used in a pendant or earrings. Just realize that these treatments may degrade over time with exposure to heat, light and UV. Sometimes these diamonds are weak compared to non-treated, higher clarity stones. Some CE treated diamonds amaze experts that they stayed in one piece during their cutting. CE does make low clarity diamonds look very nice and it is a viable route for people to consider under the right circumstances.

Very few, if any, GIA VS2 clarity diamonds are ever treated by CE to mask their VS2 inclusions. It would rarely be necessary or worthwhile. I think there may be some issue with the clarity of this particular diamond.
I don''t disagree with any of your comments. The stone was graded by UGL after the CE process. All of the diamonds sold on 47th st closeouts are sold at prices far below market. I was very skeptical myself, but I took a chance on seeing the ring in person. The color, clarity, sparkle, and fire is beyond compare to any stones I saw at local jewelers. The most impressive part is that it shows very well without the help of those special lights over the jewelry cases. I expected the stone to be yellow or have a very visible flaw. Neither of those issues exist. I''ll post pics this weekend for everyone to view. Take a look at the website and see for yourself.
 

[email protected]

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
7
Date: 12/27/2006 3:36:32 PM
Author: findarock
I am looking for an ering for my GF , soon to be fiancee. Could you provide some pictures, and the answers to the peoples questions below, I am always searching for a great deal. Since I am inexperienced I dont want to get ripped off.
I will post pics this weekend. I don''t represent 47th st. closeouts in any way. I was not ripped off by purchasing this diamond. If your GF wants a big stone, this is a way to get one that will be of good color and clarity. If she does not care about size, you can get a smaller stone that has not gone through any process. You have to decide for yourself. My fiancee wanted a large stone and she was not as concerned about the store name or diamond name. As long as it was a large, pretty princess cut diamond, she was going to be happy. Not only is she happy, she does not know what to do with herself. At most, she was expecting a 1.5 carat stone. When she saw the 2.5 carat stone, she practically melted. It''s that gorgeous. If you decide to go this route, definitely go with a VS1-2 and high color grade. I am sure that lower grade CE stones do not look as nearly as nice. With the discount, you can afford to buy the nicer stone.
 

[email protected]

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
7
Date: 12/29/2006 2:41:26 PM
Author: kenny
Sorry but you cannot sell any stone for twice what you paid for it, CE or not.

In fact none of us can sell a stone for what we paid for it.
50% is more like it.

Why?
You and I buy at retail but must sell at wholesale.
That is why diamonds are not an investment.
Prices must double for us to just break even.

And you are not ''saving'' thousands of dollars by buying a CE stone.
You got what you paid for.
You paid for a CE stone and you got a CE stone.
If you sell it the buyer can identify it as CE and it will be priced accordingly.

Yes to the untrained naked eye it looks as good as much more expensive stones.
I''m glad you are happy with it and I hope she loves it but let''s not be inaccurate or pretend you have discovered how to get something for nothing.
Let me post the pics and then tell me what you think. The ring is worth more because of the combination of the size, color, and clarity. The trained professional would not give me $10,000, but the average joe that would go to Friedmans, Reeds, or Kay would be willing to do so...
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
27,095
The diamond is CE and worth what you paid.

Would it be ethical for you to conceal this when selling it to an uninformed buyer?
 

zhuzhu

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Messages
2,503
Date: 12/29/2006 3:50:07 PM
Author: kenny
The diamond is CE and worth what you paid.


Would it be ethical for you to conceal this when selling it to an uninformed buyer?
Guys,

Can't we just be happy for Ceslade simply for the fact that he purchased a ring which he and his gf love??? While skepticism serves merit and benefits consumers in many cases, here we just have another peer PSer who wants to share his happy story with us. Let's not forget the holiday spirit so quickly!?!?!!

Congratulations Ceslade and do share pictures with us~!
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
Date: 12/29/2006 2:53:42 PM
Author: ceslade
All of the diamonds sold on 47th st closeouts are sold at prices far below market.
Glad to hear you''re happy with your purchase, Ceslade. But you are naive to think that you could sell your purchase for twice what you paid for it, and naive to think that "All of the diamonds sold on 47th St. Closeouts are sold at prices far below market".

The chances are much more likely that you got exactly what you paid for, no more, and no less. There''s nothing wrong with that, and I congratulate you on finding a diamond that satisfied your visual criteria and your pocketbook.

You will, of course, tell your fiancee'' that her diamond is clarity enhanced so she won''t be surprised and disappointed when the first jeweler that looks at it informs her, which will invariably happen.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 12/30/2006 1:19:33 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 12/29/2006 2:53:42 PM
Author: ceslade
All of the diamonds sold on 47th st closeouts are sold at prices far below market.
Glad to hear you''re happy with your purchase, Ceslade. But you are naive to think that you could sell your purchase for twice what you paid for it, and naive to think that ''All of the diamonds sold on 47th St. Closeouts are sold at prices far below market''.

The chances are much more likely that you got exactly what you paid for, no more, and no less. There''s nothing wrong with that, and I congratulate you on finding a diamond that satisfied your visual criteria and your pocketbook.

You will, of course, tell your fiancee'' that her diamond is clarity enhanced so she won''t be surprised and disappointed when the first jeweler that looks at it informs her, which will invariably happen.
Amen
 
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