shape
carat
color
clarity

"Blue" tourmaline

FornasettiLover

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
129
Colored stones Masters,

I have been thinking about a ring in the style of emerald cut center withe marquis diamond floral cluster sides. Victor Canera did one (inspo photo) and David Klass has done a couple. I was overwhelmed by the thought of finding a colored stone and going the custom route when I saw one posted by a local antique/estate jeweler in town. I went to try it on today and love it!

I'm most confused/concerned about the center stone. It's labeled a blue tourmaline, does not have a GIA cert. It is 4.65 carats and 10.49x8.05mm. The proportions seemed to fit my hobbit-like stumpy fingers perfectly. Now that I have the details, I could certainly commission a custom one with an Aqua from Jeff White (learned about him from here), but I was wondering if yall thought this was a nice stone. I don't really understand the horizontal striations. The color was perfect for me, and actually seemed to glow. I wondered if that meant it was a Paraiba? The ring is $6200. I would love y'all's thoughts on the ring and the stone.

Thank you!
 

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CBianco

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Messages
382
The horizontal striations you're seeing are just typical inclusions, and the color looks to be (in your picture at least) very average for a blue tourmaline. Paraibas should be much more neon colored and really pop.

In my honest opinion, those inclusions would definitely bother me. They are quite obvious and stand out, especially in a big stone like that and emerald cuts are unforgiving when it comes to clarity. I'm okay with overlooking some inclusions if the stone in question is top colored, but this one honestly isn't. I think you can do better for that price, in clarity and even color too.

Loving that ring design and good luck!
 

FornasettiLover

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
129
The horizontal striations you're seeing are just typical inclusions, and the color looks to be (in your picture at least) very average for a blue tourmaline. Paraibas should be much more neon colored and really pop.

In my honest opinion, those inclusions would definitely bother me. They are quite obvious and stand out, especially in a big stone like that and emerald cuts are unforgiving when it comes to clarity. I'm okay with overlooking some inclusions if the stone in question is top colored, but this one honestly isn't. I think you can do better for that price, in clarity and even color too.

Loving that ring design and good luck!

Thank you! This is exactly what I needed to know. It does help me tremendously to see the proportions on my hand and know exactly what size stone to commission from one of the PS lapidaries. I think aquamarine will be what I go with based on other threads I've read.
 

FornasettiLover

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
129
Personally, I think its a bit steep for the quality of the gemstone. Pretty ring inspo for sure, I see why you want one! A nice aquamarine would be lovely!

Thank you! This tourmaline is why I've been so afraid of colored stones. Unlike diamonds, there is less objectivity. I think based on my reading I will aim for an aquamarine, I love the dreamy water colors.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
3,301
Thank you! This tourmaline is why I've been so afraid of colored stones. Unlike diamonds, there is less objectivity. I think based on my reading I will aim for an aquamarine, I love the dreamy water colors.

I agree with everyone else. But I think you could have a lot of fun commissioning a similar piece with a high-quality aqua. It's quite pretty indeed. Good luck!
 

dk168

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
10,954
Personally, I believe a big chunk of the asking price is for the setting, and it is a nice setting with nice pears side stones.

Emerald cut in CSs is very unforgiving, and this stone is a good example as it shows the inclusions in the stone. And the amount would bother me too.

I would advise finding a setting that you like to determine how much it is likely to cost, to give you a better idea how much to set aside for a custom Aquamarine from the likes of Jeff W.

For a pale Aqua, it is likely to cost less than a deeper blue one. Great if you like your Aquas pale, like I do with a hint of green.

It will be a good time to contact Jeff W or Gary B after their respective trips in Tucson for the annual gem shows as they normally pick up some lovely roughs.

DK :))
 

FornasettiLover

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
129
I agree with everyone else. But I think you could have a lot of fun commissioning a similar piece with a high-quality aqua. It's quite pretty indeed. Good luck!

As it is clear I have no idea what a high quality aqua is, would you say it’s safe to tell Jeff White I want a 10x8 high quality emerald cut aqua and trust that I get a great stone without atrocious windows or inclusions? I do so love the look of the piece.

PS I wish I had your eye or courage. Your collection is divine.
 

FornasettiLover

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
129
Personally, I believe a big chunk of the asking price is for the setting, and it is a nice setting with nice pears side stones.

Emerald cut in CSs is very unforgiving, and this stone is a good example as it shows the inclusions in the stone. And the amount would bother me too.

I would advise finding a setting that you like to determine how much it is likely to cost, to give you a better idea how much to set aside for a custom Aquamarine from the likes of Jeff W.

For a pale Aqua, it is likely to cost less than a deeper blue one. Great if you like your Aquas pale, like I do with a hint of green.

It will be a good time to contact Jeff W or Gary B after their respective trips in Tucson for the annual gem shows as they normally pick up some lovely roughs.

DK :))

I do know the setting will be quite a bit in platinum with high color diamonds. I’m ok with the price, I just want a great stone. Can I just show these gentlemen the photos of what I like and the dimensions and trust I get a great stone from them? I worry about windows and inclusions with a custom, but is that the advantage of these “high precision” cutters? Is getting an aqua from one of them like getting an ACA diamond from whiteflash? That’s what I did for my three stone bc I wanted excellence but don’t have the eye or the knowledge. I love your whole collection!
 

dk168

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
10,954
I do know the setting will be quite a bit in platinum with high color diamonds. I’m ok with the price, I just want a great stone. Can I just show these gentlemen the photos of what I like and the dimensions and trust I get a great stone from them? I worry about windows and inclusions with a custom, but is that the advantage of these “high precision” cutters? Is getting an aqua from one of them like getting an ACA diamond from whiteflash? That’s what I did for my three stone bc I wanted excellence but don’t have the eye or the knowledge. I love your whole collection!

Thank you. :))

Speaking from my own experience, and I have been working with Jeff W and Gary B for some time, you won't get a bad stone custom-cut by them!

The latest 6ct+ Aqua that Jeff cut for me had some visible inclusions in it (still very clean for an American Aqua in that size apparently), however, I knew that before going ahead, and it was significantly less than the price of your ring in the original post!

Tilt window is as expected in deep cut stones like an Aqua in emerald cut.

DK :))
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
3,301
As it is clear I have no idea what a high quality aqua is, would you say it’s safe to tell Jeff White I want a 10x8 high quality emerald cut aqua and trust that I get a great stone without atrocious windows or inclusions? I do so love the look of the piece.

PS I wish I had your eye or courage. Your collection is divine.

Aww you're too kind; thank you!! So Jeff will show you the rough and give you an honest opinion as to what you should expect from the color and clarity once faceted. And I'm sure he will take great care in executing the cut to avoid windowing, extinction, etc. It wouldn't hurt to also mention how important cut quality is to you (and let him know what you want out of the color and clarity... aqua should be eye clean). I look forward to seeing the finished piece!
 

dk168

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
10,954
@FornasettiLover I forgot to mention, the way I normally work with Jeff W is to browse his galleries, find the stone type, look for the colour and shape that I like, and ask him to cut me something similar, giving him an idea of size I would like and an estimated budget.

I would leave the cutting to him to decide as he is the expert, unless I particularly want a certain cut, like emerald cut in Aquas and lab Emerald.

He would advise if a particular cutting is not suitable for the type of CS I would like. This happened when I was choosing a blue Zircon. The particular square cushion that I liked did not suit and gave me his reasons, and suggested another cut that was more suitable.

I found him very honest and easy to work with, hence I have been working with him since 2014/5 for custom cut CSs! I really should stop getting more CSs from him as I have a long setting queue already! :lol-2:

DK :))
 

mustangchi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
375
I would get Jeff to cut a stone for me, I can also give him a great review, I have been working with him for about 3 years now. Can also give great review for DK. Work with them and get exactly what you want, you can trust what you are getting from both of them is honest and what you pay for.
 

FornasettiLover

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
129
@FornasettiLover I forgot to mention, the way I normally work with Jeff W is to browse his galleries, find the stone type, look for the colour and shape that I like, and ask him to cut me something similar, giving him an idea of size I would like and an estimated budget.

I would leave the cutting to him to decide as he is the expert, unless I particularly want a certain cut, like emerald cut in Aquas and lab Emerald.

He would advise if a particular cutting is not suitable for the type of CS I would like. This happened when I was choosing a blue Zircon. The particular square cushion that I liked did not suit and gave me his reasons, and suggested another cut that was more suitable.

I found him very honest and easy to work with, hence I have been working with him since 2014/5 for custom cut CSs! I really should stop getting more CSs from him as I have a long setting queue already! :lol-2:

DK :))

This is exactly my plan. I have already saved my favorites from his galleries and plan to send them to him. I also plan to start with the stone and then do the setting.
 

FornasettiLover

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
129
At the risk of further exposing my ignorance, based on the two photos, is it an "emerald cut with clipped corners" that I want? Or do they all have those corners? I definitely don't want a rectangle.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know why my eye likes an emerald cut colored stone but I really, really don't like emerald cut diamonds? I tried on an EC diamond at the same estate shop and I immediately did not like it, whereas this one made my heart leap. The diamond was set with side EC diamonds too, so maybe too many steps for my brain? I just don't want to miss something before committing to this.

It sounds like JW and then DK are my guys and I have seen enough posts on the different forums (or fora) to be confident in that.
 

dk168

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
10,954
Rectangular step cut without clipped corners are baguettes, and those with clipped corners are emerald cut, that's my understanding.

Can't explain why you don't like ECs in diamonds, sorry!

Perhaps it is the same as why I don't like MRBs in diamonds whereas I would not object to MRBs in CSs.

Check this out as seen in JW's Client Jewellery gallery in case you have not seen it:
https://www.whitesgems.com/jewelrygallery?pgid=k9ng4kg6-7e363ea5-d622-4f98-b306-4ee729840ad8

DK :))
 

FornasettiLover

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
129
Rectangular step cut without clipped corners are baguettes, and those with clipped corners are emerald cut, that's my understanding.

Can't explain why you don't like ECs in diamonds, sorry!

Perhaps it is the same as why I don't like MRBs in diamonds whereas I would not object to MRBs in CSs.

Check this out as seen in JW's Client Jewellery gallery in case you have not seen it:
https://www.whitesgems.com/jewelrygallery?pgid=k9ng4kg6-7e363ea5-d622-4f98-b306-4ee729840ad8

DK :))

That is my exact inspo! I would take that color, that cut, in the proportions I found at my local shop, 10x8mm so I think that's a 3-4 carat aqua. I have loved that ring forever.

I know DK and VC have both done it. I think the original version is from Tiffany, with a diamond EC center (@Madam Bijoux has posted hers and it is amazing) and T has since done it with center ovals and other colored stones. This iteration with an aqua EC center is my favorite.

I'm excited to have been able to try on this tourmaline version in real life to figure out what size stone works on my fingers and to reassure myself. I am not nearly as brave as y'all with my jewelry.
 

Starstruck8

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
346
At the risk of further exposing my ignorance, based on the two photos, is it an "emerald cut with clipped corners" that I want? Or do they all have those corners? I definitely don't want a rectangle.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know why my eye likes an emerald cut colored stone but I really, really don't like emerald cut diamonds? I tried on an EC diamond at the same estate shop and I immediately did not like it, whereas this one made my heart leap. The diamond was set with side EC diamonds too, so maybe too many steps for my brain? I just don't want to miss something before committing to this.

It sounds like JW and then DK are my guys and I have seen enough posts on the different forums (or fora) to be confident in that.

Rectangular step cut without clipped corners are baguettes, and those with clipped corners are emerald cut, that's my understanding.
My understanding too.

On emerald cut diamonds vs coloured stones: Diamonds are basically white (colourless). The fascination of a good EC diamond is the way the facets turn on and off as the stone is turned. The illusion of 'too many facets' is precisely the point of EC diamonds, so EC diamonds are cut to maximize it. For coloured stones, the main interest is (well...) the colour. The long side facets of an EC showcase the colour with minimal distraction. This makes ECs ideal for coloured stones. That's my view, anyway.
 

FornasettiLover

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2021
Messages
129
My understanding too.

On emerald cut diamonds vs coloured stones: Diamonds are basically white (colourless). The fascination of a good EC diamond is the way the facets turn on and off as the stone is turned. The illusion of 'too many facets' is precisely the point of EC diamonds, so EC diamonds are cut to maximize it. For coloured stones, the main interest is (well...) the colour. The long side facets of an EC showcase the colour with minimal distraction. This makes ECs ideal for coloured stones. That's my view, anyway.

That makes total sense! It's the dreamy color that I love about this stone. It remind me of where the ocean meets the sky. Thank you for explaining. I was second guessing myself bc of how differently I felt about the two rings. This is very reassuring.
 
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