Blue sapphires online: ACK! Need those experts out there to help me!

[iloveblue]

Because the consensus seems to be that I should look for the stone first and the setting second, I''ve moved on to looking for my heart-singing sapphire. Online.

But, HECK, how does everyone out there in Pricescope-land tell so much from the online photos??? Truly, I look at them, and other than noticing that some seem too dark for my taste, I really can''t tell the difference between the sapphires. I''ve read posts mentioing "too much window" and "muddy," but they all look like pretty blue rocks to me. In person, I have very definite tastes about which sapphires I like, but online, I simply can''t tell.

So, I''m asking for help from the blue sapphire experts out there. I''d like evntually to have a Princess Diana style cluster ring (or some sort of version of it...see my previous thread at https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-your-sapphire-or-other-colored-stone-and-diamond-cluster-lady-di-ring.73656/).

I''ve tried on these types of rings in a B&M store and found that (short fingers that I have), an oval sapphire that''s around 8 X 6 mm (that one happend to be 1.5 carats, but I think I''m more interested in the measurements than the carat [um, right??]). That''s the minimum size, maybe a bit larger. I have no clue what the third measurement truly means. I know it''s the depth, right? But how does that factor into things?

My hope is that some of you can send me links to certain sapphires that meet my qualifications, and then explain to me why they''re nice sapphires according to the photos. (Or, show me some crummy ones--I need to learn.) I hate to make others do research for me, but I''m completely at a loss.

So, my requirements:
1. Minimum 8 X 6 mm, oval (although cushion might do)
2. Brilliant blue color (I suppose "Kashmir" is the color I like, but I can''t afford that!) I''m less fond of the "cornflower" color (I think, although I''m discovering that color is subjective.)
3. Heat treated is perfectly acceptable to me--preferable if I get a prettier stone
The other helpful aspect of this is that I''m going to a B&M store tomorrow to look at two sapphires, and I''d like some sort of basis for comparison. For ease, I''d like to just buy one in town, but I understand that the B&M stores mark up the prices a lot? One I"m looking at is about $850 per carat (about 2.25 carats), and one is about $1,300 per carat (about 3.3 carats). Therefore, I imagine online is the way to go.

Thanks so much for all your collective wisdom

 

[iloveblue]

Meant to mention...

I have already been looking through the PS recommended sites, like Simply Sapphires, NSC, AJS, and so forth. Just can''t tell what I''m doing!

 

[chrono]

Yes, the 3rd measurement is the depth. You don''t want it too shallow (will have a window), or too deep (look too small) and this will number will come in handy when looking for a setting that will fit.

And yes, shop by the measurement (and of course knowing the carat weight too

).

 

[Selkie]

I''m certainly no expert, but I love looking at sapphires! It''s confusing, isn''t it? It took me three months to choose my sapphire, so don''t feel bad.

Remember that most if not all of the main vendors we talk about here will allow you to order the stone for evaluation period (you''ll have to pay shipping, of course), so don''t stress too much about making the decision based ONLY on the online photos. But, you can at least narrow down the options.

I always look at color first. If I like the color, then I look how "sparkly" the stone is. Sometimes lighter colored stones are cut to create more sparkle (and are cut deeper to prevent a window, like Chrono said). Since most photos are taken with lighting that makes the stone look it''s best, if it''s dark and dead in the photo, it will be more so in real life.

I find it easier to keep a list of stones, with the dimensions, price, and price per carat all laid out so I can compare them. I do this in Excel, but you could just do it in a text document.

An oval 8x6 would be somewhere in the 2 to 2.5 carat range. Is this one too light for your taste? I think it''s cut very nicely. NSC B2414

 

[Selkie]

There's several on AJs that I like, here's one: AJS 2.02.

Also, here are some search results on over 2ct sapphires on ajsgems: 2 ct sapphires. If you look at the three ovals in the top row, you can see they are all exactly the same carat weight, but the width, length and depth vary quite a bit.

 

[Selkie]

Pretty color on this one at Wild Fish Gems. It''s a little smaller than 8mm. Wild Fish 2.035

 

[iloveblue]

Chrono (please don''t laugh!), could you show me a link to a stone that has a window? When you say you can see all the way through it, does it mean you can see to the background behind the stone?

 

[iloveblue]

Selkie,

Thanks very much. Even your comment "I like the cut on this one" is helpful. I can look at the stones and not know why one seems different, but I can see the sparkly cut of the first one since you mentioned it. I like its color because it''s bright, although I like the color of the second one, which is a lot darker. I noticed that the first is from NSC. How much higher is the cost of the untreated sapphire versus a treated one?

For those of you who''ve shopped online, did you literally purchase more than one stone for comparison? Or do you tend to narrow it down with fairly 99% certainty online and then generally find yourself pleased with what you get in the mail?

I''m such a "gotta see them for comparison" type of person, I hope I''m cut out for shopping online!

 

[chrono]

ILB,

No, I won''t laugh but you did make me smile. Selkie posted a few lovely options.

The 1st sapphire from NSC looks bright and sparkly.
The AJS stone is a bit darker and some people (aka the trade) prefer that shade. It is dark but not inky, which is a good thing.
The 3rd sapphire from WFG has a silky velvety bright blue, again a different kind of look. It all depends on which type of look you prefer.

As for windowing, yes, you will be able to see through the stone. Larger windows are easy to spot, smaller windows not so. In the WFG sapphire, there is a small window. Since it is small, once set, it might not be noticeable to the eye. This also depends on how acute and picky your eyes are.

 

[chrono]

For shoping online, I normally don''t buy several stones at once for comparison otherwise the shipping will add up and cost more than the stones. I narrow it down to an almost 99% certainty first with questions to the vendor and requests for more pictures (side view, pavilion view, etc).

Here''s a picture of a stone with a moderate sized window.

 

[Skippy123]

This one looks pretty http://diamondexpert.com/diamonds/dbs.cgi?sf=detg.setup.cgi&active=active&stock=SA00177&submit_search=1

Does it look nice Chrono or other gem experts?

 

[chrono]

Wow, Skippy, the silk in that sapphire makes it seem to glow. What a good find. It even has a decent crown. I''d give a Gary a call to ask about the following:
1. Extinction (don''t see any but best to ask)
2. Colour zoning (don''t see any but best to ask)
3. Windowing (don''t see any but best to ask)

 

[iloveblue]

Just to make you smile more Chrono, I''ll go over my brief stop into two B&M stores today.

One showed me a 2.7 carat for about $850/carat (total about $2000). It was similiar to the one Skippy shows (thank you, Skippy!), although the person showing it mentioned that the color is slightly uneven. I also saw a 3.3 carat for about $1,300/carat (total about $4000), which was deeper and had more even color. I don''t think I''d describe it necessarily as "vibrant" though--should I immediately feel that it looks vibrant? When I tilted it back and forth, then I could see the bright blue that I just love, but not just glancing at it. It was a bit bigger than I wanted to go, though, at almost 10X8 (which in a cluster setting, would end up being pretty darn big on me). (Horrors!! Too BIG?) One of the draws of this store is that they deal in estate jewelry as well as custom pieces, so I could get a $2,800 credit toward the purchase of whatever sapphire I get because I''m trading in a ring that has a nice diamond. At a loss, of course, but that''s fine with me. That''s a huge deal, right? They''re reputable in the Atlanta area, so I would assume the stone prices aren''t being inherently inflated because of my trade in. Or perhaps I''m being naive.

In one other store, they showed me a really, really pretty 1.05-carat--bright, vibrant blue sapphire, although slightly too small for me. I don''t know enough about windows and color zoning and extinction to have any idea whether it had those characteristics or not, I''m afraid to say. (Chrono, I''d love to call Gary and ask about these things and just pretend I know what they mean.) I just thought it was lovely. Until they gave me the price--$2,295. This isn''t a high-end store by any means and doesn''t have a great reputation (long story about why I promised someone I''d visit this store in the first place, but I did). I told the guy that this was a lot higher than I''d seen anywhere, at least in the 1-carat range. So, he goes back to the back (after much discussion about it being worth this price because of it''s tremendous color), to come back and say he''d give it to me for $1,750.

Is this how these things happen? I mean, $500 taken off, bada bing, bada boom? It kinda gave me the feeling I was at a car dealer. You know, when the guys says, "Well, let me ask my manager what he can do for you." In the mean time, he takes a potty break, drinks some coffee maybe, and comes back with a new price. It didn''t occur to me this would happen at a jeweler. The thing that stinks is that the sapphire is really pretty, but with said company''s less-than-stellar reputation, I''d be concerned doing business with them.

I''m feeling clueless. The 3-carat at dealer #1 was pretty, and with my trade, I could get it for $1500 rather than $4000. It doesn''t do that "make your heart sing" thing though. Also, if I purchased from a B&M, should I get it appraised by a third party?

I realize that I could also purchase my stone online and then put the $2,800 toward my setting in that store.

 

[Gypsy]

Oh I LOVE the one Skippy posted. But I really like medium blue. It''s hard to tell from the pics, but for me... I ordered a couple of REALLY windowed (and fortunately very cheap) stones, and from there learned what to avoid. I just ordered a smokey topaz that''s not windowed at all... but looks lifeless because I think the crown is too low and the table too big... so I''m thinking of having the top of it re-cut as it''s a lovely stone otherwise-- all of these were (super cheap) ebay buys to get me comfortable with buying these online. I''ve gotten some nice stones on there too (also inexpensive ones). It''s my way of gambling. lol.

I''ve also bought some in person... and taken them home and been less than thrilled (and then returned them) so even seeing stones in person, unless you are REALLY examining it and everything (which I''ve learned to do) including taking it outside in regular light... can be an imperfect process.

The stones I''ve been the happiest with, I''ve bought from our great PS vendors (like Richard Martin and Dan Stair).

The point of my rambling is... PSers here will help you A LOT, but a good VENDOR is KEY (one who is honest and will tell you EVERYTHING about the stone) when you are spending a lot of money. And don''t buy from ebay unless you like a gamble.

 

[chrono]

I love your "bada bing, bada boom". You certainly added a lift to my stressful day at work today. Okay, I''ll try to answer one at a time.

1. The 2.7 carat for about $850/carat (total about $2000).
The words uneven colour means there is some colour zoning. If YOU can''t see it, then it could be a good buy for you as the stone should be discounted for such a flaw. Perhaps the right side of the stone is a bright blue but the left part is a darker blue. This is what zoning means.

2. The 3.3 carat for about $1,300/carat (total about $4000)
The larger the stone, the deeper the colour is going to appear. There''s just more mass for the light to bounce around in before returning to the eye. Yes, the stone should appear vibrant right away with some play of movement back and forth, although it should be a very pleasing blue (to your taste) even when static.

I don''t know the jeweller well enough to know if they are inflating the prices due to a trade in. I would think not but who knows, some places practise very heavy sales tactics just like a car dealership.

3. The 1.05-carat
You said it is bright and a vibrant blue, just too small. It seems like maybe this is the type you are looking for. Can you not ask the vendor to source one just like that sapphire, but just have it larger? Is this the one that is $2295? Is it unheated or something? That''s really too expensive. Heck, even for $1750!

4. Just call Gary. He will not mind explaining windowing, colour zoning and extinction to you at all. For FREE. And no strings attached.

I''ve explain a little about windowing in an earlier post and colour zoning at stone #1. Extinction is when the stone has dark areas. Some stone that are not well cut will have blackish areas where it does not reflect light. This is not a good thing. Also for the stone to be vibrant, it cannot have a flat crown. The top has to have a decent pillowtop appearance. When your heart sings, then you just know that''s the sapphire for you. It seems that neither stone 1, 2 or 3 is the one.

I''m going to look for some examples for you. Be back later.

 

[chrono]

A very clear example of extinction. The bad one is on the left, the good one is on the right.

 

[chrono]

A very clear example of a window so large you can''t miss it.

 

[iloveblue]

Ahhhh! Thanks, Chrono!

Now I can see the big honkin'' window!

And now that you''ve shown examples of extinction, I think that this is precisely what I saw going on with the 3-carat stone I looked at. Like I said, I had to keep turning it from side to side to get some flashes of bright blue, but overall, it seemed darker. Not that it wasn''t pretty. It was darker like Skippy''s example #2, which is the color that I think I tend to lean toward. Bright but deep, if that makes any kind of sense.

 

[iloveblue]

Sorry, I meant Selkie''s #2 example.

Which leads me to a question about Skippy''s sapphire. When I look at the first picture, I think, "Well, might be a little lighter than what I''m looking for." Then I look at the second picture and think, "There it is! That''s the color!" Same stone, two different reactions.

So, which picture do you go by?

And, does something being untreated (in the case of sapphires) matter? I"ve gathered that it''s very common, but I''ve noticed the people make a bigger deal of the untreated ones. Perhaps it''s the philosophy of "Look what nature did without any of our help!" (well, aside from cutting and polishing these lovelies).

 

[AmandaFace]

i think youve gotten all kinds of great advice here.

it can all be a bit daunting at first right? but youll eventually find a beautiful stone and all the misery will disappear .. i promise

i have a sapphire in my ering - so been there, done that.

keep us upated when you find some things you really like! we love photos

 

[iloveblue]

In addition to Selkie''s #2 and Skippy''s options, what about this one? It''s has my size specifications and has the color I like. Bad and good input.

And I''m suddenly understanding how people can get completely immersed in this whole thing

http://www.ajsgems.com/product/2753fd96-0fbc-49d3-96c7-128148229dd7.aspx

 

[iloveblue]

And this one.

Now, both are 2.49 carats and approximately the same dimensions (about .9 mm shorter). So why do you think this one costs about $500 more?
http://www.ajsgems.com/product/a7819f8d-e2f1-449e-a756-c161dbb3e37a.aspx


Does around the $2,000 mark seem a decent amount for a beautiful sapphire? Should I be looking higher or lower? (I know this is subjective--sorry about that!)

And what would you call this type of color that I seem to like? Medium blue? Kashmir blue?

 

[iloveblue]

And here''s the last one, from AJS at least.

This one is also 2.49 carats but is $2800.

So, we have three 2.49 carat sapphires, all step cut, and all heated and loupe clean.

The first is $1,950, second is $2,400, and third is $2,800.

Any thoughts about why? They all look lovely to me.

http://www.ajsgems.com/product/09465544-3151-49e2-8bad-1f6e1d267cea.aspx

 

[diamondsrock]

Date: 12/6/2007 11:40:51 AM
Author: Skippy123
This one looks pretty http://diamondexpert.com/diamonds/dbs.cgi?sf=detg.setup.cgi&active=active&stock=SA00177&submit_search=1

Does it look nice Chrono or other gem experts?

oh, Skippy, I''m in love with this stone!

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 12/6/2007 8:15:46 PM
Author: diamondsrock

Date: 12/6/2007 11:40:51 AM
Author: Skippy123
This one looks pretty http://diamondexpert.com/diamonds/dbs.cgi?sf=detg.setup.cgi&active=active&stock=SA00177&submit_search=1

Does it look nice Chrono or other gem experts?

oh, Skippy, I''m in love with this stone!

ME TOO!!!! If I didn''t just get some bling, that stone would be home w/me. heheeee

 

[Selkie]

Date: 12/6/2007 11:32:20 PM
Author: Skippy123

Date: 12/6/2007 8:15:46 PM

Author: diamondsrock

Date: 12/6/2007 11:40:51 AM

Author: Skippy123

This one looks pretty http://diamondexpert.com/diamonds/dbs.cgi?sf=detg.setup.cgi&active=active&stock=SA00177&submit_search=1


Does it look nice Chrono or other gem experts?

oh, Skippy, I''m in love with this stone!

ME TOO!!!! If I didn''t just get some bling, that stone would be home w/me. heheeee

I love it too, nice find, Skippy!

 

[Selkie]

Date: 12/6/2007 4:16:59 PM
Author: iloveblue
And here''s the last one, from AJS at least.

This one is also 2.49 carats but is $2800.

So, we have three 2.49 carat sapphires, all step cut, and all heated and loupe clean.

The first is $1,950, second is $2,400, and third is $2,800.

Any thoughts about why? They all look lovely to me.

http://www.ajsgems.com/product/09465544-3151-49e2-8bad-1f6e1d267cea.aspx

The $2800 one has the highest clarity, and nice proportions (almost 9x7). It will look bigger than either of the others, while still having that rich color.

The $2400 has slightly lower clarity but is still almost loupe clean (meaning you might notice a few inclusions under magnification). It''s about 8x6, and deep, so will look smaller than the one above, but still has good proportions.

The $1950 is eye clean (which I think is a perfectly acceptable level of clarity), and it''s kind of long and skinny, almost 9x6. It might be harder to find a setting for it because of that.

As for your jewelry store visits, that 2.7 sounds interesting, if the zoning isn''t too obvious. The 1.05 ct is WAAAAY overpriced at either of the two prices EVEN if it''s unheated.

Even NSC, which I feel really puts a premium on unheated stones, doesn''t have any in that size range for over $1000 per carat.

 

[Selkie]

Echoing what Gypsy said, a good vendor can really help you narrow things down once you''ve chosen some stones you like from their site. If they can get an idea what you are looking for, then you won''t have to deal with as much shipping stones back and forth, trying to find the right one. Just give them a call or email and they will help quite willingly.

I actually ordered and returned two sapphires before choosing the one that''s in my e-ring. One was from Simply Sapphires, and looked much darker in person than in their photos. My stone, and the other one I sent back, were from NSC. I found that their online photos were quite accurate.

 

[iloveblue]

Hiya Skippy,

I''ve contacted the vendor of the stone you found to get some additional information and photos.

It''s just a tiny bit smaller lengthwise than I was hoping for but is wider. So, I suppose I would just have a slightly rounder stone in the setting. Maybe it would look more like Simply Sapphire''s ruby ring above?

 

[Skippy123]

Are you getting it?

Hope you find something you love!!