Black inclusions in VS2 visible in real life?

[OCD_about_angles]

Hi,

I've been lurking in the forums and learning a lot and didn't have a need to get the communities' opinion until now...

I've been searching for a diamond and came across this one which caught my eye (specs wise).

GIA (I don't want to provide the GIA# since I don't want anyone snapping up this stone)
1.27 carat
I color
VS2
7.02 x 7.09 x 4.19 mm
Excellent Cut
Excellent Polish
Excellent Symmetry
Faint Flourescence

Depth: 59.6%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 34.0°
Crown Height: 14.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted (2.5%)
Culet: None

Additional clouds are not shown. Pinpoints are not shown.

(Some of these specs are modified to try to hide the real stone info)





The HCA predicts excellent performance, and this stone has great spread for its size!!!

The diamond is still at the cutter and the jeweler is not able to get ASET/Idealscope images. The best thing available are pictures under a 10x loupe. The jeweler won't be able to call in the stone from overseas until I make the purchase.




(EDIT: I guess the enlarged images doesn't show the black speck quite that well... maybe save out the image and zoom from your computer)

The diamond cutter states that the stone is not hazy or milky, the I is very nice and white has no green or brown undertones, and that the VS2 is absolutely eye clean. I'm planning to mount this stone to the Tiffany-style 6 prong setting, so the sides of the diamond is exposed and visible. My worry is whether the black specks shown in the side image would be of concern? What are the expert's opinion on this? Am I worrying too much? Is the HCA ex-ex-ex-ex fire and sparkle in real life going to drown out the minor imperfections of this stone?

 

[04diamond<3]

It should be eye clean, but there are some VS2 that aren't completely eye clean. Any way to get a better face up shot? It's hard to tell from what's been provided...

 

[diamondloveaffair]

no way to tell based on given information.

Unless this jeweler is doing the deal at a significantly low pricing (unlikely), there are plenty of other similar diamonds out there with vendors who will provide detailed information and pictures. why make a large purchase with so many uncertainties?

 

[OCD_about_angles]

In my mind, I think that the price is good deal all because the spread of this diamond is extraordinary! 7.02 x 7.09 x 4.19 mm for a 1.27 carat! The similar stones I've found that are around this spread (with HCA score 0 to 2 and excellent lightreturn/fire/brilliance) are about .06 to .07 carat heavier and about $1000 more. If you know of any stones that fit my criteria, please let me know:

$8000 diamond budget
GIA Round
Excellent cut
Excellent polish and symmetry
VS2 clarity
I color
1.25+ carat
HCA Value between 0 to 2
HCA score of Ex-Ex-Ex-Ex

I'm ok with Ex-Ex-Ex-VG, but it'll have to beat or be near the 7.02 x 7.09 spread.

I'm sure there are other vendors out there who can provide more detailed information and pictures, but it would probably be out of my price range to get something similar. I really like this stone, but I just wanted to cover all my bases in case there is something I am missing or if someone has a similar experience. It might just be my pursuit for something "mind-clean" instead of "eye-clean", but the black speck can be quickly spotted from the side view at 10x loupe.

Any PS jewelers or appraisers come across something similar? Black specks under loupe but really is eye-clean under normal viewing conditions?

 

[CharmyPoo]

It's really hard to judge the visibility of inclusions in the photos provided or any photos for that matter. Even with our recommended PS vendors, there has been situations where their definition of eye clean did not match the buyer's expectation. Do you have a return policy for this purchase?

 

[OCD_about_angles]

There is a 30 day return policy with the jeweler counting from when the jeweler ships out the diamond. But, I'll have to make the purchase first before the jeweler can request the stone from the cutter overseas. The jeweler doesn't have ASET/Idealscope capabilities, so I plan to bring the diamond to an independent appraiser for light leakage evaluation as well as insurance purposes.

My dilemma is whether I want to tie up my bank account funds to have this stone sent from overseas to the jeweler (a few days?) and then a few more days for the jeweler to send to me, and then a few more days for the appraisal, followed by a few more days for RMA to jeweler, and then maybe another week or two for the return to go through. Yet, I don't want to pass up a good stone either! I guess if I get enough confidence and reassurance, I'll be willing to make the leap. That's why I'm gauging the PS community on their opinions, given the limited scope of information available.

 

[CharmyPoo]

How much are you really saving with this vendor? What is the price assuming the color, clarity and carat specs were not modified in your post.

 

[OCD_about_angles]

Price is below $7500 and I'm probably saving $1000 off a similar spread diamond of HCA excellent fire/lightreturn/brilliance. The tricky part is finding HCA Ex-Ex-Ex-Ex that is of sizeable dimensions at an affordable price. There are plenty of HCA Ex-Ex-Ex-VGs, but that last Ex tells me that I'm getting a good bang for my money since the cut proportions aren't wasting any excess weight. I don't think I'm willing to sacrifice on the other three Ex's.

Color and clarity are exact. Carat size is slightly modified.

I'm sure I'm not the first one on PS to ask if VS2s are eye-clean, which means that there might be someone else out there who has gone through what I'm going through and knows if I'm being too picky. GIA has already looked at the stone and graded it VS2, so at least one professional has looked at it and deemed that the inclusions are small enough for a VS2 grade. But, I'm not sure about how the clarity grade is determined: from top view (as shown on GIA diagram) barely shows the black inclusions, but the inclusions are visible from the side under loupe.

Does GIA rotate the stone around and look for inclusions throughout the stone and then grade from all the inclusions, or does GIA only look from table view and pavillion view and documents the grade from what is visible from those two point of views?

 

[CharmyPoo]

GIA grades clarity looking through the table only under 10x magnification.

I have seen VS2 with eye visible inclusions. I am pretty oblivious to inclusions usually but there has been several occasions where I can see feathers in VS2 stones without a loupe. However, I don't seen examples of black carbon inclusions for VS2 diamonds in real life. For myself, I usually buy VS1 and up. I know others feel comfortable even going down to a SI1 but they are able to see the diamond in real life.

I have rarely see true deals on the retail market usually there is a reason why something is priced cheaper. In retail or wholesale, we are dealing with experts - they aren't going to give you a deal. Second hand market and private sellers is a different ball game.

 

[TC1987]

Based on my diamonds, and I have some I1 and not totally eyeclean Si2, black or garnet or other dark inclusions in the table area can hide pretty well if they are small and also down low toward the culet. If they higher up, like mid-depth or closer to the top, they are less likely to stay hidden at all tilts and vantage points. They might look like they are floating in there.

Just from the pictures, there is at least one black speck that can be seen from the side. And the inclusion that's at 7:30 in the face-up photo can probably also be seen if you examine the stone close up and you have good vision.
I would drop that requirement for Ex on spread, and go with Ex-Ex-Ex-Vg and something without dark inclusions, if you absolutely don't want to see any inclusions. White or clear crystal inclusions might be okay, too. Black, brown, and garnet colors are harder to hide. I might tolerate one (my H&A diamond has one speck) but not several.

eta: But that is a nice-looking diamond. I just meant if you don't want to see anything with the naked eye ever, ti's probably not the best choice. I like tables 55%-56% or maybe 57% at most, and about a 15% crown just because I like more fire and I don't all of the fire to be out at the rim of the diamond, or just seen when you tilt the stone.