Black by Brian Gavin

[Azetab]

Hey, I see a new diamond line out by Brian Gavin called Black and after doing a lot of research online, I haven't been able to really find out a lot of information about the line. Does any one know if the cut for the Black line is considered better than A Cut Above from Whiteflash?

 

[ChristineRose]

There was a long thread about it somewhere.

They use a technique called painting, which increases the white light return (brilliance) of the stone at the expense of scintillation (shifting patterns of light and dark as the stone moves).

Stones like this have been around for a while; the best know is Eightstar. Some people love them, some people...don't. Gavin's version is unique to them and they claim that the stone balances the best of both worlds.

 

[WillyDiamond]

Hey, I see a new diamond line out by Brian Gavin called Black and after doing a lot of research online, I haven't been able to really find out a lot of information about the line. Does any one know if the cut for the Black line is considered better than A Cut Above from Whiteflash?

Why don't you just call Leslie at BGD and ask her the differences? I am sure fellow PSers would like to hear this info.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Azetab,
Per forum rules and basic professional courtesy, I can't comment on another merchant's offerings. They are the best source of info about their products.

But I can point out that Whiteflash publishes the exact specifications and qualifications for our A CUT ABOVE brand. This allows consumers to compare our brand against any other that is transparent about their brand attributes. Within A CUT ABOVE we also have our Collection Series in colorless, microscopically clean super ideals.

We have pages on both linked from the top navigation on our site if you are interested in learning more.

 

[gm89uk]

There was a long thread about it somewhere.

They use a technique called painting, which increases the white light return (brilliance) of the stone at the expense of scintillation (shifting patterns of light and dark as the stone moves).

Stones like this have been around for a while; the best know is Eightstar. Some people love them, some people...don't. Gavin's version is unique to them and they claim that the stone balances the best of both worlds.

Hey, not sure what the reference for this is? I looked at their scope images and they don't appear particularly painted.

 

[ChristineRose]

There was a long thread about it somewhere.

They use a technique called painting, which increases the white light return (brilliance) of the stone at the expense of scintillation (shifting patterns of light and dark as the stone moves).

Stones like this have been around for a while; the best know is Eightstar. Some people love them, some people...don't. Gavin's version is unique to them and they claim that the stone balances the best of both worlds.

Hey, not sure what the reference for this is? I looked at their scope images and they don't appear particularly painted.

Hi gm89uk.

You can see the painting by looking at the ASET images on this page:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/news/black-brian-gavin-vs-brian-gavin-signature/

The small triangles on the edge of the stone are smaller (more red), and there's more green and less black. A general tend towards red-ness.

They have also clearly made some changes to the other minor facets to reduce green under the table. It appears to be a combination of changes to minor facets.

So what does this mean? If you could fit a mirror into an Idealscope (you couldn't unless it was a perfect one-way mirror...) you'd see a flat red image. Green is light going off to the side. If you're tilting the diamond, you see the green areas flash in and out of view. Scintillation. It's pretty much inherent. If more light is thrown up, then less light is thrown to the side.

I really have no idea what me (or anyone else) would say if I were shown a bunch of otherwise comparable Blacks and ACAs. Many people prefer "(sort of) badly" cut stones. I'm sure they are gorgeous rocks. Brian Gavin is considered a master cutter. But as I said, others have cut stones to maximize ASET red before and most people didn't like them as well.

 

[flyingpig]

Hello.

A crown only painted super ideal cut diamond looks more like this..
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3328831.htm

Black by BG looks nothing like that. To my eyes, it's got classic girdle
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.074-g-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104091295006#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/1/
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.074-g-vs2-round-diamond-bkags-104091295006#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/2/


I am not sure if painting is the main technique that is used in Black by BG.
WF used to produce such style diamonds, but discontinued. I cannot see BG resurrecting the style. Again, Black by BG does not appear anything like that.

 

[Azetab]

There was a long thread about it somewhere.

They use a technique called painting, which increases the white light return (brilliance) of the stone at the expense of scintillation (shifting patterns of light and dark as the stone moves).

Stones like this have been around for a while; the best know is Eightstar. Some people love them, some people...don't. Gavin's version is unique to them and they claim that the stone balances the best of both worlds.

Hey, not sure what the reference for this is? I looked at their scope images and they don't appear particularly painted.

Hi gm89uk.

You can see the painting by looking at the ASET images on this page:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/news/black-brian-gavin-vs-brian-gavin-signature/

The small triangles on the edge of the stone are smaller (more red), and there's more green and less black. A general tend towards red-ness.

They have also clearly made some changes to the other minor facets to reduce green under the table. It appears to be a combination of changes to minor facets.

So what does this mean? If you could fit a mirror into an Idealscope (you couldn't unless it was a perfect one-way mirror...) you'd see a flat red image. Green is light going off to the side. If you're tilting the diamond, you see the green areas flash in and out of view. Scintillation. It's pretty much inherent. If more light is thrown up, then less light is thrown to the side.

I really have no idea what me (or anyone else) would say if I were shown a bunch of otherwise comparable Blacks and ACAs. Many people prefer "(sort of) badly" cut stones. I'm sure they are gorgeous rocks. Brian Gavin is considered a master cutter. But as I said, others have cut stones to maximize ASET red before and most people didn't like them as well.

Hey ChristineRose,

So you're saying that cutting stones to maximize ASET red isn't necessarily going to make the stone "look" better? I want to get a diamond that has the best light performance and brilliance. My belief was that getting a super ideal cut (ACA, Black by Brian Gavin, Crafted by Infinity) would essentially give me the best light performance. Is that not true? Any insights would be very helpful!

 

[gm89uk]

buying a superideal would get you the best light performance. The nuisances between black, signature, ACA, CBI, I don't think you'll do wrong with any of them. The take home message is buy what you can within your budget, that has upgrade policies that suit you.

 

[bmfang]

There was a long thread about it somewhere.

They use a technique called painting, which increases the white light return (brilliance) of the stone at the expense of scintillation (shifting patterns of light and dark as the stone moves).

Stones like this have been around for a while; the best know is Eightstar. Some people love them, some people...don't. Gavin's version is unique to them and they claim that the stone balances the best of both worlds.

Hey, not sure what the reference for this is? I looked at their scope images and they don't appear particularly painted.

Hi gm89uk.

You can see the painting by looking at the ASET images on this page:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/news/black-brian-gavin-vs-brian-gavin-signature/

The small triangles on the edge of the stone are smaller (more red), and there's more green and less black. A general tend towards red-ness.

They have also clearly made some changes to the other minor facets to reduce green under the table. It appears to be a combination of changes to minor facets.

So what does this mean? If you could fit a mirror into an Idealscope (you couldn't unless it was a perfect one-way mirror...) you'd see a flat red image. Green is light going off to the side. If you're tilting the diamond, you see the green areas flash in and out of view. Scintillation. It's pretty much inherent. If more light is thrown up, then less light is thrown to the side.

I really have no idea what me (or anyone else) would say if I were shown a bunch of otherwise comparable Blacks and ACAs. Many people prefer "(sort of) badly" cut stones. I'm sure they are gorgeous rocks. Brian Gavin is considered a master cutter. But as I said, others have cut stones to maximize ASET red before and most people didn't like them as well.

Hey ChristineRose,

So you're saying that cutting stones to maximize ASET red isn't necessarily going to make the stone "look" better? I want to get a diamond that has the best light performance and brilliance. My belief was that getting a super ideal cut (ACA, Black by Brian Gavin, Crafted by Infinity) would essentially give me the best light performance. Is that not true? Any insights would be very helpful!

Hey Azetab,

Maximising ASET red is essentially trying to maximise brilliance in my books. WF, BG Signature Ideal, BG Black, Crafted by Infinity all are worth exploring in your search for a stone which will exhibit the best light performance out in the market.

If you are however looking at Black by Brian Gavin, you should also ensure that you search through the regular Brian Gavin Signature H&A inventory as well as you will find stones there that are very close to Black standards but without the extra cost. If you don't mind the extra cost, then by all means go for the stones in the Black by Brian Gavin range.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

There was a long thread about it somewhere.

They use a technique called painting, which increases the white light return (brilliance) of the stone at the expense of scintillation (shifting patterns of light and dark as the stone moves).

Stones like this have been around for a while; the best know is Eightstar. Some people love them, some people...don't. Gavin's version is unique to them and they claim that the stone balances the best of both worlds.

Hey, not sure what the reference for this is? I looked at their scope images and they don't appear particularly painted.

Hi gm89uk.

You can see the painting by looking at the ASET images on this page:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/news/black-brian-gavin-vs-brian-gavin-signature/

The small triangles on the edge of the stone are smaller (more red), and there's more green and less black. A general tend towards red-ness.

They have also clearly made some changes to the other minor facets to reduce green under the table. It appears to be a combination of changes to minor facets.

So what does this mean? If you could fit a mirror into an Idealscope (you couldn't unless it was a perfect one-way mirror...) you'd see a flat red image. Green is light going off to the side. If you're tilting the diamond, you see the green areas flash in and out of view. Scintillation. It's pretty much inherent. If more light is thrown up, then less light is thrown to the side.

I really have no idea what me (or anyone else) would say if I were shown a bunch of otherwise comparable Blacks and ACAs. Many people prefer "(sort of) badly" cut stones. I'm sure they are gorgeous rocks. Brian Gavin is considered a master cutter. But as I said, others have cut stones to maximize ASET red before and most people didn't like them as well.

Hey ChristineRose,

So you're saying that cutting stones to maximize ASET red isn't necessarily going to make the stone "look" better? I want to get a diamond that has the best light performance and brilliance. My belief was that getting a super ideal cut (ACA, Black by Brian Gavin, Crafted by Infinity) would essentially give me the best light performance. Is that not true? Any insights would be very helpful!

Hey Azetab,

Maximising ASET red is essentially trying to maximise brilliance in my books. WF, BG Signature Ideal, BG Black, Crafted by Infinity all are worth exploring in your search for a stone which will exhibit the best light performance out in the market.

Bfan,
I would say of the statement I bolded above, that maximizing ASET red is maximizing high angle light. There seems to be an important role for low angle light (green) to play in creating optimal performance. It has been shown that differing intensities of light can contribute positive contrast and enhance our perception of brilliance. Kind of like putting a little salt on watermelon makes it taste sweeter. But it has to be in just the right amount and distribution.

As flyingpig also alluded to, experiments have been done with precision cutting to eliminate virtually all the leakages from the round brilliant, but it does not seem to create a look that everyone finds optimal. As narrow as the superideal range is, there still room for different tastes!

 

[Karl_K]

I am not sure if painting is the main technique that is used in Black by BG.

It is not.
I have not discussed it with Brian but this is what I am seeing and my opinion on how it could be done.
Just the opposite, greater control of: angles, azimuth shift, 3d placement, length, flatness and removal of yaw from the lower girdles and mains.
The lower girdles are where the most variation in ideal cuts often shows up.
I kinda get a kick out of patent pending, should be an interesting read if it is ever granted.
While it is impressive in a craftsmanship and art way unless a scientific double blind study was done there is no scientific proof it increases the appearance of the diamond.
My feelings are the difference at this level is beyond what even the sharpest eyed person will see in person.
I am a huge fan of craftsmanship so I do greatly admire the skill and effort that goes into them.

Do a search for Gavin yaw and beryl threads on yaw on pricescope for some interesting and very heavy reading.

 

[Lore]

Azetab,
Within A CUT ABOVE we also have our Collection Series in colorless, microscopically clean super ideals.

I wish you guys would advertise the Collection Series more! I stumbled upon that page a while back (after I had bought from you) and was surprised to learn that mine was one of the Collection Series purely based on the specifications. There's no easy way to filter for CS otherwise, is there?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I wish you guys would advertise the Collection Series more! I stumbled upon that page a while back (after I had bought from you) and was surprised to learn that mine was one of the Collection Series purely based on the specifications. There's no easy way to filter for CS otherwise, is there?

Thanks and congrats- you have something very special!

As explained on the page, Collection Series is simply a subset of A CUT ABOVE - colorless (DEF) and clean (IF-VVS). The name comes from a term traditionally used by diamantaires in talking about diamonds in these precise color and clarity ranges - 'collection goods'.

On the page there is a browse button that will take you to a filtered search for only CS diamonds. And you can always adjust the color and clarity sliders on the diamond search page to find them.