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Better Diamond shopping Amsterdam or Antwerp?

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
good day!
In a week time I am going to Europe with my fiancé to buy an engagement ring. PLEASE ADVICE where it's better ( in regards of quality and price) to buy diamond ring in Amsterdam or Antwerp???

I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR HELP, as I am an absolute ZERO in the related matters!!!!!

Thanks in advance!
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
I want to apologise for the question I've asked... As it was discussed many times for sure...but it is really difficult to decide when it comes to diamond shopping as there are huge amount of specifications....so please don't get annoyed by my question and help if you can by giving some good advice on where ( trusted seller) and what kind of stone can we get for around 8000 usd. Thanks in advance again!!!!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,955
After reading PS for six years if I was going to buy a diamond in Antwerp I'd contact Paul Slegers at Infinity Diamonds.

http://www.infinitydiamonds.be/

I trust that he will have some of the best-cut diamonds you will ever see.

That said, why buy in person?
Why not just shop online?
You may find the same quality for less from any of several good online vendors.
Perhaps read through the PS Advanced Tutorial above under Knowledge and become familiar with what you can get from Pricescope vendors like Good Old Gold, Whiteflash and James allen and carry your knowledge to Infinity Diamonds in Antwerp with you.

Knowledge and competition are wonderful and powerful things.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,822
The most agressive market in terms of pricing is the US internet. Quality varies a bit with what you want. Most of the big sellers have the whole range from super-duper to rock salt and will be happy to sell you whatever you wish. No physical store can even come close to the Internet dealers in terms of selection unless they're doing the same activity of listing stones owned elsewhere and bringing them in only after you select one. That's ok, and nearly every jeweler is prepared to do it, but this is tough to do on a vacation because of time pressures. How long will you be there? Where are you from?
 

IbrahimSS

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
71
I read to stay away from buying in person from Amsterdam/Antwerp/Dubai or even NY/LA diamond districts for that matter *UNLESS* you know your stuff about ice. My diamond knowledge isn't good enough to bother with that so I stuck to online shopping with help from the folks around here. They will help you comparison shop!
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,403
I was quite surprised when diamond shopping in Amsterdam.
Given that it was the first diamond trading center, you'd think there'd be a lot of diamonds to look at.
We could barely find a stone larger than one carat.
When my wife ( then fiance) asked the saleslady if they had any larger diamonds, she informed us that people there thought large diamonds were gauche ( or something to that effect).
We laughed because my wife was wearing a ring with about 4cts of diamonds.

Antwerp has a street level market - I did not shop it. But it did seem to be similar, albeit far better behaved ( no barkers), than NY's 47th street.

But Ibrahim nailed the point about how knowledge of diamonds being important.
Probably more important would be researching the seller.
Many people have posted after they bought in a diamond district somewhere, leaning they did not get such a great deal- or a money back guarantee.
If a seller has had complaints, the internet makes that much easier to find.
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
Thanks for all the advices you've guys wrote!!!!
I am Russian but at the moment staying with my fiancé on Haiti as he was assigned there. So that's why we decided to buy the ring in Europe during our vacation. Why not shopping online???...to tell the truth I can't even imagine how To do that... As it's quiet expensive purchase... Is it really safe? How can the diamond be shipped or delivered?? Could you please send me a link to get more familiar with the process. Thanks a lot again!!! I would never expect such a friendly and supportive people here!!! THANK YOU!!!!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,955
Post the size, shape color and clarity you want and we can post links to good stones.

First learn about cut.
Cut is more important than color or clarity but is the most difficult to learn about.
Good cut results in more light being reflected back to your eyes instead of leaking out the bottom of a diamond.
Most diamonds are NOT well cut because it grinds away more rough diamond material and results in a lighter diamond.
In other words the same rough stone that could be cut to be a poorly-performing 1 carat stone may have to be ground down to 0.75 carat to perform well.
Most customers are ignorant of cut and just want a 1-carat, so the industry gives them what they want.

Near the top of this screen click on Knowledge.
Then select Advanced Tutorial.
Get some coffee and read it all.

There are several trustworthy Internet diamond sellers.
A few are Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, James Allen, Bluenile.
If you want a naturally colored diamond I recommend Leibish & Co. at www.fancydiamonds.net
I mention these five because I have personally bought from them and they are all very honest and have excellent diamonds at excellent prices.

The safety issue may be more where you ship it too, Russia or Haiti.
I'd call these five vendors and discuss safe secure ways to ship to these locations.
Malca Amit specializes in safe international shipments of high value diamonds.
I'd also call them and discuss these destinations.

When you fly from Haiti perhaps you could stop in New York and visit Good Old Gold.
I think they are just a taxi drive from the airport.
I'd strongly recommend them over any other location you listed.

Good luck.
 

ribeye

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
5
I am living in the Netherlands, and I wouldn't advise you to buy your diamonds over here. Most of them are way overpriced, and it's hard to find an excellent cut stone. My SIL and I went to Antwerp to buy our diamonds. You can try to contact Rob van Beurden, he is official dealer of Infinity diamonds: http://www.fortrez.com/
 

cutelittlelion

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
21
Hi!

I live somewhere in the middle of both cities, so we took day trips to both of them, after reading up on a lot of information on the PS and GOG sites.

I called a few vendors a week or so ahead, to inquire after excellent cut stones. What they claimed were excellent cuts were in fact not. I could see my skin through some of them, or could see that the table wasn't symmetricly (sp?) cut. It was still an interesting experience though, to look at all the different colours and shapes to determine what I like. Besides, both cities are beautiful and great to visit even without looking for diamonds!

I did check out Infinity, because I like what they stand for. However, all stones that were on offer then were bigger than what I was looking for (Yes, I am one of those Europeans that likes small diamonds!). Now I am looking online as well...
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,822
cutelittlelion|1311945495|2979687 said:
. What they claimed were excellent cuts were in fact not. ...
This is one of the top tricky issues in the diamond business. There are lots of different definitions of what is 'excellent' and what is not. It's terribly important to both understand what they mean by that and how they are applying the standards. GIA rules are NOT the same as those from HRD, which are not the same as EGL, IGI, AGS, EGL-USA, GCAL and others. Just because they SAY IGI would call it h&a ideal (for example) doesn't make it so. If you're interested in relying on IGI grading, get it from IGI, not some dealer who is estimating what they theoretically might say if it were submitted. If you're not interested in what IGI thinks, decide who you count as important and then limit your shopping to them. If you've found a dealer who is using a definition or a lab that you think is BS, don't just hold it against the lab, hold it against the dealer.
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
denverappraiser|1311947150|2979698 said:
cutelittlelion|1311945495|2979687 said:
. What they claimed were excellent cuts were in fact not. ...
This is one of the top tricky issues in the diamond business. There are lots of different definitions of what is 'excellent' and what is not. It's terribly important to both understand what they mean by that and how they are applying the standards. GIA rules are NOT the same as those from HRD, which are not the same as EGL, IGI, AGS, EGL-USA, GCAL and others. Just because they SAY IGI would call it h&a ideal (for example) doesn't make it so. If you're interested in relying on IGI grading, get it from IGI, not some dealer who is estimating what they theoretically might say if it were submitted. If you're not interested in what IGI thinks, decide who you count as important and then limit your shopping to them. If you've found a dealer who is using a definition or a lab that you think is BS, don't just hold it against the lab, hold it against the dealer.
Thanks for your advice!
So which standards can we trust then? I' ve heard the GIA is on of the best....I think I am lost(((((
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
cutelittlelion|1311945495|2979687 said:
Hi!

I live somewhere in the middle of both cities, so we took day trips to both of them, after reading up on a lot of information on the PS and GOG sites.

I called a few vendors a week or so ahead, to inquire after excellent cut stones. What they claimed were excellent cuts were in fact not. I could see my skin through some of them, or could see that the table wasn't symmetricly (sp?) cut. It was still an interesting experience though, to look at all the different colours and shapes to determine what I like. Besides, both cities are beautiful and great to visit even without looking for diamonds!

I did check out Infinity, because I like what they stand for. However, all stones that were on offer then were bigger than what I was looking for (Yes, I am one of those Europeans that likes small diamonds!). Now I am looking online as well...
What do you mean by bigger diamonds than what you were looking for? I am just curious what was the " smallest " that Infinity offered? Have you checked on Diamondland in Antwerp??
 

cutelittlelion

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
21
When I called the smallest available was around .9 I think. I am looking for about a .5.

I didn't check out Diamondland, because a friend of mine compared it to a theme park. The diamonds I found in their online search engine were relatively expensive and they don't mention anything about cut. They also offer free hotel stays etc. when you buy a diamond there. I prefer a lower markup and less fancy marketing strategies.
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
Good day everybody!!! Thanks again for your posts!!! I really appreciate your help!
But at the moment I got more lost then before opiates my question here.
I went through the available information, tutorials, tips, etc...
But I have more questions now (((

so as I understood there are no trustable dealers in Antwerp except Infinity Diamonds...
So if I decide to buy the diamond online you guys can help me to choose the right stone.
But still I worry about buying such an expensive thing online...
Is it really safe?
Do the online dealers have trustable certificates ? As far as I understood there are plenty of them...which one is better I didn't understand(((((

So the things I really didn't get are:
For what reason online price is lower?
How safe it is to buy diamonds online? How can I trust what I see on photo and what I will get in reality?
How to ship it to Haiti ?
And what is more important how and where to make ring with the diamond bought online?

I am looking for a round diamond with ideal cut ( now I know how it is important) acceptable Color and clarity.
In other words: round VERY sparkling diamond with no visible defects from trustable dealer and real certificate of quality.
Price range around 6000 -8000 usd.

What can we get for that price and requirements?

Thanks again!,,, and sorry for stupid questions!!!!!!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Infinity sometimes cuts smaller stones, last year there were about 2-3 in the 0.5c range, snapped up early this year. Maybe just contact them to see if they have any in the pipeline?
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
cutelittlelion|1311950038|2979725 said:
When I called the smallest available was around .9 I think. I am looking for about a .5.

I didn't check out Diamondland, because a friend of mine compared it to a theme park. The diamonds I found in their online search engine were relatively expensive and they don't mention anything about cut. They also offer free hotel stays etc. when you buy a diamond there. I prefer a lower markup and less fancy marketing strategies.
Thanks cutelittlelion for your prompt reply!
Were mthe diamonds at Infinity really perfect as they state? What about the prices?
Have succeeded in online purchase yet?
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
kenny|1311830749|2978675 said:
Post the size, shape color and clarity you want and we can post links to good stones.

First learn about cut.
Cut is more important than color or clarity but is the most difficult to learn about.
Good cut results in more light being reflected back to your eyes instead of leaking out the bottom of a diamond.
Most diamonds are NOT well cut because it grinds away more rough diamond material and results in a lighter diamond.
In other words the same rough stone that could be cut to be a poorly-performing 1 carat stone may have to be ground down to 0.75 carat to perform well.
Most customers are ignorant of cut and just want a 1-carat, so the industry gives them what they want.

Near the top of this screen click on Knowledge.
Then select Advanced Tutorial.
Get some coffee and read it all.

There are several trustworthy Internet diamond sellers.
A few are Whiteflash, Good Old Gold, James Allen, Bluenile.
If you want a naturally colored diamond I recommend Leibish & Co. at www.fancydiamonds.net
I mention these five because I have personally bought from them and they are all very honest and have excellent diamonds at excellent prices.

The safety issue may be more where you ship it too, Russia or Haiti.
I'd call these five vendors and discuss safe secure ways to ship to these locations.
Malca Amit specializes in safe international shipments of high value diamonds.
I'd also call them and discuss these destinations.

When you fly from Haiti perhaps you could stop in New York and visit Good Old Gold.
I think they are just a taxi drive from the airport.
I'd strongly recommend them over any other location you listed.

Good luck.


Kenny thanks for your post!
Please check my message above.
Thanks!
 

cutelittlelion

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
21
Hi,

I didn't see any Infinity diamonds in action, we decided not to visit because they were outside of our range at the time. I'll definitely consider asking about any upcoming smaller diamonds (thanks Stone-cold!).

I haven't bought a diamond online yet. Because I gained so much info from the GOG site and videos I've emailed them to ask them wether they can help me find a stone and setting that fit my requirements. Haven't heard back yet though.
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
kenny|1311798001|2978236 said:
After reading PS for six years if I was going to buy a diamond in Antwerp I'd contact Paul Slegers at Infinity Diamonds.

http://www.infinitydiamonds.be/

I trust that he will have some of the best-cut diamonds you will ever see.

That said, why buy in person?
Why not just shop online?
You may find the same quality for less from any of several good online vendors.
Perhaps read through the PS Advanced Tutorial above under Knowledge and become familiar with what you can get from Pricescope vendors like Good Old Gold, Whiteflash and James allen and carry your knowledge to Infinity Diamonds in Antwerp with you.

Knowledge and competition are wonderful and powerful things.

Thanks again for your reply, Kenny!
Do they have fixed prices or we can bargain the price?
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
It' s me again))

Please check the below links for 2 diamonds I have chosen
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1338412.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

And

http://www.fortrez.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=657

What is your opinion about two of them?
I' ve read somewhere that by taking diamond in lower Color grade and clarity you can get a bigger size almost at the same price but of course with excellent cut...
What can you advice?
I just have 2 days left before trip to Europe.

Thanks in advance!!!!!!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
JA stone looks promising. Ask for an idealscope and confirm if eye-clean to your standard. The infinity stone looks good to me.
 

Tamiris

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
11
I've just talked to JA consultant they told me there is no shipping services to zhaiti available(((
So it means that the only choice I have is to go straight to Infinity in Antwerp and to buy there as no other trustable company in Antwerp was mentioned and advised here....
What you guys think about the price?
By the way do they bargain or they have fixed prices at Infinity?

Thanks again!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Quite fixed the price, there is some discount for wire-transfer, at least for US transaction, not sure about EU. I did not deal with that jeweler, so his practice is unknown to me.
 
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