Best Pavilion Facet Pattern in Oval?

[William Preston]

Hi Everyone,

I'm noticing the different facet patterns on the pavilions have differing effects on the sparkle, but I can't tell which is better for bowtie from the pictures online. The GIA Certificates show the different patterns:

4 Main Facets:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.02-carat-h-color-if-clarity-sku-3143553
8 Main Version A:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.01-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3596592
8 Main Version B:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.01-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3357695

Does anyone know the pros/cons of each? I would think that one does the most for eliminating bowtie but maybe doesn't reflect as much light? I'm not necessarily asking which is the best diamond, I'm more asking what I should be looking for in facet patterns.

Thanks for your help!
WP

 

[KKJohnson]

I have come to find I am an 8 main B fan, after helping someone else look for ovals I just think they very nice with hardly if any bow tie

 

[Rockdiamond]

Good questions!
Is my experience, it is not possible to draw reliable conclusions based only on the facet pattern.
The reason is that there are too many other variables that combine to affect the ultimate light performance. For example the shape and size of the facets will vary. As will crown angle, and pavilion angle. The girdle, and crown facets also act in concert with the pavilion. Since each diamond is unique, in terms of shape, along with the factors of mentioned above, my experience has been that you can find two stones with the exact same GIA plot that look completely different. One could have a horrible bowtie, the other one flashes bright throughout .

 

[tyty333]

You are missing 6 main...
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.05-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3147164

Usually the 4 main does not have a bow-tie but it is a particular look...I prefer the other 3 faceting types. And the unfortunate news is that you can find
good/bad of all of them. I have not studied them enough to say whether one is better than the other (I'll leave that up to the vendors) but, I have
studied them enough to know what my favorites are.

We need to come to a consensus on what a "bow-tie" is. A lot of people consider it the larger facets that form a "bow-tie" that go through the center
whether they return light well or not. I consider it a dark area going through the center (that is not returning light well). Due to the difference in
what people think a bow-tie is, I've started using the term "bad bow-tie" just to clarify specifically what I mean.

Also, for naming conventions I've started calling the 8 main Version B...8 main offset (as the arrows are "offset" from the center). Nobody knows what
version A or B means unless you explicitly give the definition or an example. "8 main offset" sounds a little more descriptive to me. I wonder if the
vendors have a term they use (if so, please do tell).

So, my favorites are the 8 main and the 6 main (not so common). The issue you do find with these 2 are that if the angles are not correct then you will
end up with a bad bow-tie. If the angles are correct you will end up with arrows that look like a round brilliant (somewhat).

Bad bow-tie example in 8 main:
Too much darkness showing through the center; darkness last for long
time while stone rotates.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.08-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-2274004

Nice 8 main:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.05-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3623448

Bad bow-tie 6 main: (just look at faceting...ignore inclusions, color, shape etc)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.08-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-sku-776916

Nice 6 main faceting:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.07-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-374247

What you want to look for is nice, clear, well-defined facets in the center of the stone. As the stone rotates you want to see more well-defined facets
come into focus going down towards the pointed ends. You want to minimize the "mushy" areas. I've outlined the mushy areas in black in the oval
below.


Watch this stone as it rotates...you see some well-defined facets come into focus headed down towards the pointed end.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.05-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2782364

Watch this stone rotate...the mush never really comes into focus. The mush stays mushy as the stone rotates.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.05-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3586664

Because you dont usually see a bad bow-tie in the 8 main offset stones, I think more people tend to like them (and they are easier to find).

Also, I wanted to add, I usually just use my eyes to find nice ovals. I dont pay as much detail to the numbers. Also, aset images for
ovals are never pretty...it is another piece to the puzzle but since they are static images they only tell you what the stone looks like at that
particular angle (usually head on). The up close videos (like James Allen's) tell me a lot more than anything. All the above info is my opinion
based on what I've learned (and have seen studying ovals) on PS for the past few years (so take it for what its worth ).

Edit...you should spend some time on JA and try to figure out what faceting pattern you like the best.

 

[William Preston]

Thanks for the detailed responses all!

@tyty333 The links with the explanations were very helpful. From your post and my time on JA this morning, it seems that the there's less of a likelihood of bad bowtie with the 8 main offset, but almost always some mush, and a well-cut 8 main has less mush and reflects more fire than a well-cut offset, but there's more of a chance of bad bowtie. Does that sound consistent with your impressions?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Good ovals are hard to find, and I agree with the others, you just look through them all visually and hope to find one that is nicely cut! I would not rule out any based on # of pavilion mains. Choose a couple, post them here, and people familiar with ovals can help you weed out the better ones.

 

[tyty333]

Thanks for the detailed responses all!

@tyty333 The links with the explanations were very helpful. From your post and my time on JA this morning, it seems that the there's less of a likelihood of bad bowtie with the 8 main offset, but almost always some mush, and a well-cut 8 main has less mush and reflects more fire than a well-cut offset, but there's more of a chance of bad bowtie. Does that sound consistent with your impressions?

In general, I can not confirm your above statement. Almost every oval will have some mush, it just depends on the individual
stone as to how much (not dependent on faceting). Fire has more to do with the angles of the pavilion and crown combo.
This page has to do with rounds but it might be helpful if you have time...
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/diamond-fire-1568.htm

Like RockDiamond said a couple post up...there are too many variables to state anything based on faceting pattern. As soon as you think you have
figured something out, you'll start coming across stones that prove you wrong.

You could work with one of our vendors that are willing to bring in multiple stones and compare them side by side under different lighting. Usually
you have to put money down to have this done.

 

[Mechealle]

You are missing 6 main...
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.05-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3147164

Usually the 4 main does not have a bow-tie but it is a particular look...I prefer the other 3 faceting types. And the unfortunate news is that you can find
good/bad of all of them. I have not studied them enough to say whether one is better than the other (I'll leave that up to the vendors) but, I have
studied them enough to know what my favorites are.

We need to come to a consensus on what a "bow-tie" is. A lot of people consider it the larger facets that form a "bow-tie" that go through the center
whether they return light well or not. I consider it a dark area going through the center (that is not returning light well). Due to the difference in
what people think a bow-tie is, I've started using the term "bad bow-tie" just to clarify specifically what I mean.

Also, for naming conventions I've started calling the 8 main Version B...8 main offset (as the arrows are "offset" from the center). Nobody knows what
version A or B means unless you explicitly give the definition or an example. "8 main offset" sounds a little more descriptive to me. I wonder if the
vendors have a term they use (if so, please do tell).

So, my favorites are the 8 main and the 6 main (not so common). The issue you do find with these 2 are that if the angles are not correct then you will
end up with a bad bow-tie. If the angles are correct you will end up with arrows that look like a round brilliant (somewhat).

Bad bow-tie example in 8 main:
Too much darkness showing through the center; darkness last for long
time while stone rotates.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.08-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-2274004

Nice 8 main:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.05-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3623448

Bad bow-tie 6 main: (just look at faceting...ignore inclusions, color, shape etc)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.08-carat-j-color-si1-clarity-sku-776916

Nice 6 main faceting:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.07-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-374247

What you want to look for is nice, clear, well-defined facets in the center of the stone. As the stone rotates you want to see more well-defined facets
come into focus going down towards the pointed ends. You want to minimize the "mushy" areas. I've outlined the mushy areas in black in the oval
below.


Watch this stone as it rotates...you see some well-defined facets come into focus headed down towards the pointed end.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.05-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2782364

Watch this stone rotate...the mush never really comes into focus. The mush stays mushy as the stone rotates.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.05-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3586664

Because you dont usually see a bad bow-tie in the 8 main offset stones, I think more people tend to like them (and they are easier to find).

Also, I wanted to add, I usually just use my eyes to find nice ovals. I dont pay as much detail to the numbers. Also, aset images for
ovals are never pretty...it is another piece to the puzzle but since they are static images they only tell you what the stone looks like at that
particular angle (usually head on). The up close videos (like James Allen's) tell me a lot more than anything. All the above info is my opinion
based on what I've learned (and have seen studying ovals) on PS for the past few years (so take it for what its worth ).

Edit...you should spend some time on JA and try to figure out what faceting pattern you like the best.

I have a bow tie question, clearly you’re very informed of ovals. Mind me asking you a question?

 

[tyty333]

I have a bow tie question, clearly you’re very informed of ovals. Mind me asking you a question?

sure...I noticed you posted a thread with ovals...I'll take a look.

 

[Mechealle]

Thank you so much, no rush at all. Totally losing my mind on all this... I thought all I needed to worry about was the 3 C's and boy was I wrong. What I have learned is that in typical forum fashion, someone is always going to find something wrong or state their preferences that will steer me away and understand at the end of the day it's my decision and what I want to compromise on. I am just confident that with the budget I have... I have to get a good stone and want to be sure I do my diligence. When it comes to ovals I keep noticing that bow ties are inevitable, regardless of cut... some ae just "worse" than others is that correct? Also, like is seeing a bow tie the #1 cringe-worthy thing when it comes to an oval stone? Again, really appreciate your insight and advice,

 

[tyty333]

Yes, some bow-ties are worst than others. With ovals you want to minimize the mushy areas and maximize the good facets seen as the stone
moves. It usually is a trade-off with longer stones that they will have a wide area through the center that reflects light well but on the other hand
will not have nice facets that light up headed down towards the longer ends of the stone.

My favorite ovals are 6 main and 8 main (through the center) but both of these are usually hard to find and of course just because they have that faceting
pattern doesnt mean they will be good ovals.

That's why I was wondering what the return policy is? It would be nice to live with it for a week and see what you think. Even if its not set in a ring
yet.