Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Best cut for the money? using cut adviser (HIC)

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

hunter3316

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Messages
30
This web site mensions that some cuts are in the excellent range for HIC (cut advisor) but are outside the AGSO (Ideal cut). I assume finding these cuts will give the best diamond for the $$$. Does anyone have any knoledge on how to apply this idea? or has anyone tryed it but found it not to be quite true?

Are there any sites out there thet sell pridominatly AGS certed diamonds? (these are the only ones with all the geometry numbers included that are needed for the cut advisor.).

Thanks for all your input.
Hunter
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Yes if you can find an AGS 1 or 2 that scores well on the HCA, you may have a winner. But I would caution to not use the HCA as only tool in your long process of searching. Use it as one tool of many. See if your online vendor has IdealScope images or closeups of the stone so you can see inclusion. Do they have BrillianceScope reports? Sarin information?

If you find a stone with a GIA report, look for a Sarin report, that has angles and information such as the AGS report but actually has more information for you than an AGS report would.

It is true that not all AGS 0 stones are created equal. I have plugged some into the HCA and gotten 4 and 5 scores. Plugged AGS 1 and/or AGS 2 stones in and gotten a 2.1. Interesting stuff. My stone is an AGS 7 (brilliant ideal cut (BIC) as opposed to tolowsky ideal cut (TIC)) and it gets a 2.8 on the HCA.

Run a search on Pricescope for AGS 0 only stones. Not all of them will be AGS graded, some are GIA reported stones that their vendor feels may be AGS 0...in which case that may be tricky, but some will have AGS reports for you to view. But finding AGS 1 and/or 2 may be harder, more digging required!


Good luck!
 

dimonbob

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
Messages
670
It is easier to go to the Pricescope home page and click on Search by Cut Quality. Dial in your carat weight, color and clarity and AGS cert and GO. You will get a list of diamonds from different companies that are all excellent excellent. It is too easy. If you see a diamond you like, click on the company name and you are in that website.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
I have to agree with DB although he works for one of the co's who is prominently displayed in the search results!
I run ALL my searches with cut quality, its the easiest way to find the best stones. Just put in your ctw, color, clarity and go. It finds all excellent scoring HCA diamonds and sometimes the markup is less than you think.

BUT if your plan is to find an AGS 1 or AGS 2 for less markup, this wouldn't be the way to go.

Good luck!
 

hunter3316

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Messages
30
Thats true diamondbob, but one thig Ive found when using that search engine (uses all 4 angles for cut quality), what comes up as a
ex-ex-ex-ex is not always true when I actally manually put the info from the stone into the HCA! Is there a reason for this?
sometimes when I put in the numbers Ill get somthing like
gd-ex-gd-gd! Somthings wrong here.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Hunter..are those stones from the Pricescope 'Cut Quality' search engine? If so, please post the info so that it can be looked into. That shouldn't be happening.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Again...please post the info on these stones when you find them. I have not yet run across a stone that scores excllent on the HCA using the CUT QUALITY search on Pscope that when manually entered brings up an HCA with all GDs. That would mean that 'super ideal' stones like ACA and SC and also Nice Ice's H&A are scoring 4-5 on the HCA and I honestly don't see that happening. There may be a glitch somewhere.
 

hunter3316

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Messages
30
heres just a quick example. this stone:
0.76
H
SI1
0 (H&A)
A Cut Above
1.2-EX
ex-ex-ex-ex
60.5
55
34.6°
40.8°
AGS
0.7

says its ex-ex-ex-ex but when manualy entered into the HCA i get
ex-ex-ex-vg

no this isent a drastic difference (whcih I have seen) but it is a diffeerence and from what I understand about the search meathod is should not be different. let me know what you think.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Hmmm...when I input the #'s it still gives me a 1.2 which is what the PScope engine had too. The difference is the EX/VG on spread. Small difference but interesting.

It may be that Garry has recently updated the HCA and Pscope is still pulling from the old version or similar.

I still want to see the ones you found that say EX EX EX EX but is really GD GD GD GD. Now THAT is something to cry about!!!

Garry--?

Somewhat related is that when we bought our stone in November it scored a 1.5 BIC EX VG VG EX on the HCA. A few months later Garry made some changes to the HCA for stones like ours with a shallower depth and larger table, and now its a 2.8 VG VG G EX. Not a huge trauma, but very different in the numbers!! So don't get too attached to the HCA..as it is always changing and morphing and being perfected.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
14,919
Hmmm Mara - what were the proportions?

The stones you need to look for can be found with the Ideal-scope. They will have shallow crown angles and slightly deep pavillions (BIC) and steep crown angles with slightly shallow pavilions (FIC) but the latter group are rare.

Good news is there are a small bunch of cutters now eagerly awaiting the development of a market for these diamonds. Things will start to happen this year - big things


As the GIA have been saying for years - watch this space
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Garry--Actually Hunter was asking why when he runs a Pscope search using Cut Quality, a stone may come back with EX EX EX EX but when he inputs the #'s manually he gets EX EX EX VG. A small difference but ? Also he mentioned some stones on the Cut Quality search that show GD instead of EX across the board when he types them in?

BTW my stone dimensions are 29.9 crown angle, 41.1 pav angle, 56.9 depth and 61.4 table with no culet.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
14,919
Roger!

The score is the same.
Leonid is moving house right now - it seems to be a glitch in calculator. The manual system is correct.

Mara I still like shallow stones, but I am that bit older and do not examine the stone as close up as some younger people would. So I made the system tougher to reflect a wider range of peoples tastes. I think we have had this conversation before?
 

hunter3316

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Messages
30
So what is the practical (by eye) difference in a very good rating as oposed to a excellent rating in the HCA. Use sintilation for an example. By eye, could you actually see a difference in very good sintilation as oposed to excellent sintilation?
 

hunter3316

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Messages
30
Gary, not sure what you mean when you say:

"VG to Ex - depends on 0.0 to 3.9 yes - or 1.9 to 2.1 no"

Can you elaborate?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Garry yes I know about the BIC changes to the HCA....I'm not concerned!
I was just trying to explain to Hunter that the HCA will be be updated from time to time so the results may vary from now to later, etc.

Hunter...If I may interpret, I think what Garry means is that it depends...yes you will see a difference from a 0 HCA (not really possible)-3.9 HCA scoring but not between a 1.9 HCA score and a 2.1 HCA score.

I have also heard others say that the difference in VG to EX is minimal but it depends. Are you talking ALL EX's vs ALL VG's? If so, yes you will see a difference in each EX to VG that culminates in a slightly different looking stone. But if you are talking all EX's and one VG, that will still be an excellent stone regardless of how you look at it. I also want to point out that in all the HCA scores I have seen in the last 6 months (and that's ALOT!), the most common for the under 2.0 scoring is EX EX EX VG and IMO it's more rare to find the EX EX EX EX stones. Also note that VG to EX on spread will be visually non-existent to your eyes. The other 3 are more important. I would not consider a stone with any Fair's and I would not normally consider a stone with a G. If our stone had scored a 2.8 on the HCA before we bought it with that one G, we may not have gotten it. That is just because if you are number crunching, it's easy to want perfection or as close to it as possible--all your options are open!

Good luck.
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top