Beauty pageants

[redwood66]

I meant the laughing icon. You think it is funny? It is hardly funny that someone did not help these young ladies to know better of their worth.

 

[monarch64]

I meant the laughing icon. You think it is funny? It is hardly funny that someone did not help these young ladies to know better of their worth.

Oh, come on. It's either a laugh or cry type of thing. I think it is very sad that women are exploited in any way, and often by their parents, the very people who are supposed to keep them safe and instill positive self-esteem in them. Sheeeesh, sorry, certainly did not mean to offend you!

I grew up with a mother who was VERY concerned with physical appearance (still is) and coincidentally was also in pageants and made SURE to share that with me as often as possible. Also modeled, also very thin, tall, blah blah. I fell and had to have stitches in my knee when I was about 5 years old. She told me (jokingly, but I was 5 and took everything she said seriously) that I could never be Miss America because they don't have scars.

Now, my mom is not a bad person and in fact has spent her entire life teaching and volunteering her time and service to others, but she did grow up with what are now very antiquated attitudes about women and what makes them valuable in our society. I am happy to say I have overcome an eating disorder, and a lot of the damage from years of having my flaws and good points scrutinized and discussed and picked apart. I refuse to instill any of that total bullshit in my own daughter. She sure as hell won't be watching, nor participating in beauty pageants. But hey, if McKinsleigh Marie Rae down the street wants to, have at it. Just make sure you have an education and career to fall back on so you don't end up being trafficked.

 

[redwood66]

I am not offended I was just surprised. I agree one should not plan beauty pageants to be a life long ambition. Some go on to be media hosts... LOL

 

[Gypsy]

Yes, they are called beauty pageants. That's why I said they need to evolve so that the definition of beauty they project is one of inner beauty more than just physical.

I think Vogue needs to evolve too. But just because there are other areas that need improvement doesn't mean that we can't start with pageants.


The only issue I have with prostitution is that it is not legal and regulated and taxed.

 

[Gypsy]

I meant the laughing icon. You think it is funny? It is hardly funny that someone did not help these young ladies to know better of their worth.

Oh, come on. It's either a laugh or cry type of thing. I think it is very sad that women are exploited in any way, and often by their parents, the very people who are supposed to keep them safe and instill positive self-esteem in them. Sheeeesh, sorry, certainly did not mean to offend you!

I grew up with a mother who was VERY concerned with physical appearance (still is) and coincidentally was also in pageants and made SURE to share that with me as often as possible. Also modeled, also very thin, tall, blah blah. I fell and had to have stitches in my knee when I was about 5 years old. She told me (jokingly, but I was 5 and took everything she said seriously) that I could never be Miss America because they don't have scars.

Now, my mom is not a bad person and in fact has spent her entire life teaching and volunteering her time and service to others, but she did grow up with what are now very antiquated attitudes about women and what makes them valuable in our society. I am happy to say I have overcome an eating disorder, and a lot of the damage from years of having my flaws and good points scrutinized and discussed and picked apart. I refuse to instill any of that total bullshit in my own daughter. She sure as hell won't be watching, nor participating in beauty pageants. But hey, if McKinsleigh Marie Rae down the street wants to, have at it. Just make sure you have an education and career to fall back on so you don't end up being trafficked.

Your mom sounds like mine!!

I used to scrape my knees a lot and all my mother would comment on was the fact that I wouldn't be able to wear shorts skirts and how scars would make me so unattractive as a woman! My mother defines vanity. It is an illness!! I wasn't allowed to play the flute because my lips may "deform."

 

[monarch64]

I am not offended I was just surprised. I agree one should not plan beauty pageants to be a life long ambition. Some go on to be media hosts... LOL

I'm sure many women go on to do fine or even great things. But I can definitely see how a young woman might become accustomed to the entertainment business and end up doing pornographic work after being promised "real" acting roles and having to do certain things for money. My laughter emoji was more at the irony of your statement about **** and prostitution--I was kind of chuckling over beauty pageants being ok but the other two NOT ok because the former oftentimes leads to the latter. Hope you get what I mean. I really do not mean to offend anyone.

 

[kenny]

The only issue I have with prostitution is that it is not legal and regulated and taxed.

But if I had to pay tax on my side income I couldn't afford all those FCDs.

 

[redwood66]

I am not offended I was just surprised. I agree one should not plan beauty pageants to be a life long ambition. Some go on to be media hosts... LOL

I'm sure many women go on to do fine or even great things. But I can definitely see how a young woman might become accustomed to the entertainment business and end up doing pornographic work after being promised "real" acting roles and having to do certain things for money. My laughter emoji was more at the irony of your statement about **** and prostitution--I was kind of chuckling over beauty pageants being ok but the other two NOT ok because the former oftentimes leads to the latter. Hope you get what I mean. I really do not mean to offend anyone.

I never mean to offend anyone (but I often do). I do see pornography as another industry and did not mean to imply that it was not ok. It, like pageants, is a choice. My problem with prostitution (and some pornography) is the forced type where no choice is involved. I do find it ironic that some would want pageants to go away but are ok with prostitution. All of these professions can be deemed demeaning to women.

 

[PintoBean]

I meant the laughing icon. You think it is funny? It is hardly funny that someone did not help these young ladies to know better of their worth.

Oh, come on. It's either a laugh or cry type of thing. I think it is very sad that women are exploited in any way, and often by their parents, the very people who are supposed to keep them safe and instill positive self-esteem in them. Sheeeesh, sorry, certainly did not mean to offend you!

I grew up with a mother who was VERY concerned with physical appearance (still is) and coincidentally was also in pageants and made SURE to share that with me as often as possible. Also modeled, also very thin, tall, blah blah. I fell and had to have stitches in my knee when I was about 5 years old. She told me (jokingly, but I was 5 and took everything she said seriously) that I could never be Miss America because they don't have scars.

Now, my mom is not a bad person and in fact has spent her entire life teaching and volunteering her time and service to others, but she did grow up with what are now very antiquated attitudes about women and what makes them valuable in our society. I am happy to say I have overcome an eating disorder, and a lot of the damage from years of having my flaws and good points scrutinized and discussed and picked apart. I refuse to instill any of that total bullshit in my own daughter. She sure as hell won't be watching, nor participating in beauty pageants. But hey, if McKinsleigh Marie Rae down the street wants to, have at it. Just make sure you have an education and career to fall back on so you don't end up being trafficked.

Your mom sounds like mine!!

I used to scrape my knees a lot and all my mother would comment on was the fact that I wouldn't be able to wear shorts skirts and how scars would make me so unattractive as a woman! My mother defines vanity. It is an illness!! I wasn't allowed to play the flute because my lips may "deform."

Gypsy, maybe your mother was warning you of oral STDs?

 

[monarch64]

I am not offended I was just surprised. I agree one should not plan beauty pageants to be a life long ambition. Some go on to be media hosts... LOL

I'm sure many women go on to do fine or even great things. But I can definitely see how a young woman might become accustomed to the entertainment business and end up doing pornographic work after being promised "real" acting roles and having to do certain things for money. My laughter emoji was more at the irony of your statement about **** and prostitution--I was kind of chuckling over beauty pageants being ok but the other two NOT ok because the former oftentimes leads to the latter. Hope you get what I mean. I really do not mean to offend anyone.

I never mean to offend anyone (but I often do). I do see pornography as another industry and did not mean to imply that it was not ok. It, like pageants, is a choice. My problem with prostitution (and some pornography) is the forced type where no choice is involved. I do find it ironic that some would want pageants to go away but are ok with prostitution. All of these professions can be deemed demeaning to women.

Gotcha, Redwood. I think I might have missed any discussion earlier in the thread about being ok with prostitution. Fwiw, I don't know how I feel about prostitution. I would think that like anything, there are different tiers/types and that some is regulated (those ranches in NV?) some is in-between, and obviously some qualifies as human trafficking and is inhumane. I can't speak much about it because I honestly am not familiar with the topic aside from like, Pretty Woman.

And sorry if I was condescending or disrespectful. From reading some of your remarks about your career in corrections (I think that's right, tell me if I'm wrong) I had it in my mind that you were a little jaded/cynical like me about stuff like this. My mistake.

 

[monarch64]

I meant the laughing icon. You think it is funny? It is hardly funny that someone did not help these young ladies to know better of their worth.

Oh, come on. It's either a laugh or cry type of thing. I think it is very sad that women are exploited in any way, and often by their parents, the very people who are supposed to keep them safe and instill positive self-esteem in them. Sheeeesh, sorry, certainly did not mean to offend you!

I grew up with a mother who was VERY concerned with physical appearance (still is) and coincidentally was also in pageants and made SURE to share that with me as often as possible. Also modeled, also very thin, tall, blah blah. I fell and had to have stitches in my knee when I was about 5 years old. She told me (jokingly, but I was 5 and took everything she said seriously) that I could never be Miss America because they don't have scars.

Now, my mom is not a bad person and in fact has spent her entire life teaching and volunteering her time and service to others, but she did grow up with what are now very antiquated attitudes about women and what makes them valuable in our society. I am happy to say I have overcome an eating disorder, and a lot of the damage from years of having my flaws and good points scrutinized and discussed and picked apart. I refuse to instill any of that total bullshit in my own daughter. She sure as hell won't be watching, nor participating in beauty pageants. But hey, if McKinsleigh Marie Rae down the street wants to, have at it. Just make sure you have an education and career to fall back on so you don't end up being trafficked.

Your mom sounds like mine!!

I used to scrape my knees a lot and all my mother would comment on was the fact that I wouldn't be able to wear shorts skirts and how scars would make me so unattractive as a woman! My mother defines vanity. It is an illness!! I wasn't allowed to play the flute because my lips may "deform."

Gypsy, maybe your mother was warning you of oral STDs?

Omg. Gypsy, lip deformities caused by the flute? Lord. I also remember my mom telling me not to rub my eyes because they'd get wrinkles faster. I rub my eyes every day in the shower now just to spite her. And yes, I have wrinkles around my eyes. They are caused by expressing my delight and laughing about things as often as possible. IDGAF about wrinkles! (Ok, MAAAAYBE I use filters sometimes on Insta. Maybe.)

 

[Gypsy]

I meant the laughing icon. You think it is funny? It is hardly funny that someone did not help these young ladies to know better of their worth.

Oh, come on. It's either a laugh or cry type of thing. I think it is very sad that women are exploited in any way, and often by their parents, the very people who are supposed to keep them safe and instill positive self-esteem in them. Sheeeesh, sorry, certainly did not mean to offend you!

I grew up with a mother who was VERY concerned with physical appearance (still is) and coincidentally was also in pageants and made SURE to share that with me as often as possible. Also modeled, also very thin, tall, blah blah. I fell and had to have stitches in my knee when I was about 5 years old. She told me (jokingly, but I was 5 and took everything she said seriously) that I could never be Miss America because they don't have scars.

Now, my mom is not a bad person and in fact has spent her entire life teaching and volunteering her time and service to others, but she did grow up with what are now very antiquated attitudes about women and what makes them valuable in our society. I am happy to say I have overcome an eating disorder, and a lot of the damage from years of having my flaws and good points scrutinized and discussed and picked apart. I refuse to instill any of that total bullshit in my own daughter. She sure as hell won't be watching, nor participating in beauty pageants. But hey, if McKinsleigh Marie Rae down the street wants to, have at it. Just make sure you have an education and career to fall back on so you don't end up being trafficked.

Your mom sounds like mine!!

I used to scrape my knees a lot and all my mother would comment on was the fact that I wouldn't be able to wear shorts skirts and how scars would make me so unattractive as a woman! My mother defines vanity. It is an illness!! I wasn't allowed to play the flute because my lips may "deform."

Gypsy, maybe your mother was warning you of oral STDs?

Omg. Gypsy, lip deformities caused by the flute? Lord. I also remember my mom telling me not to rub my eyes because they'd get wrinkles faster. I rub my eyes every day in the shower now just to spite her. And yes, I have wrinkles around my eyes. They are caused by expressing my delight and laughing about things as often as possible. IDGAF about wrinkles! (Ok, MAAAAYBE I use filters sometimes on Insta. Maybe.)

I got that one too. I also DNGAF and rub my eyes as I see fit.


My mother considers my habitual lack of makeup a character defect.

PB :

 

[VRBeauty]

Not having read all the prior posts in this thread - sorry 'bout that:

Way back in the early 60's watching beauty pageants was kind of a thing in the VRB household. Once or twice we even went to friends to watch on a better television. I remember a "Mrs. *state* pageant too - part of the competition was seeing who could iron a man's shirt the fastest!

But that was all before women's lib, a total re-evaluation of the options available to girls and women, and the advent of almost limitless options for on-screen entertainment at any given time. The emphasis on glamour, beauty, figure, and pseudo-talents - and being able to answer a semi-serious question without offending anyone or actually revealing anything about yourself - seems so anachronistic now.

I was seriously surprised to see Miss America contest "news" in my newsfeeds yesterday. I know these pageants still go on, and probably always will - but to see actual "reporting" on the contest kind of blew my mind. I've become accustomed to just seeing a photo on the human interest page the day after. I suspect the contest was held on a Sunday because that's traditionally a "slow news day." I wish it hadn't been held on Sunday, 9-11 - but maybe it's not realistic to expect this country to set aside a frivolity for a whole day.

 

[madelise]

I did a pageant in 2015, and won a position on court (one queen, and princesses). It ended up being one of the best things I've ever done. I have NO self esteem about my body, and forcing myself on stage in a swim suit, all 170# of me, next to size 00 friends. I used to never wear any shorts that would show my thighs, and would cover up at the beach/pool unless I was actually inside the water. It was a challenge and I love it. I've made some of my best friends in the process.


I look forward to doing a Mrs. version in the future. I don't find anything wrong with wanting to care about your looks, and trying to compete for it. There already are competitions for sports, for intelligence.... I will never win anything remotely "smart" or physical. What's wrong with wanting to work on something I might have an inkling of a chance for, and one that I'm interested in?



People do these things for themselves, for whatever reason. I don't think the progressiveness of feminism ceases to exist just because some women want to participate in these.

 

[Gypsy]

I do not think being okay with legalized prostitution is on conflict with disliking pagents. I did not say that aI dislike pagents because they are exploitative. I dislike them because they perpetuate and inequality of standards for men and women, and as such are anachronistic and need to evolve to include a more wholeistic standard of beauty. I didn't say they need to end, just change to stress inner beauty not just outer.


I had a whole thing typed up about why decriminalizing prostitution is a positive evolution. But then I read this: http://prostitution.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000115


I general the "pro" column sums up my beliefs. The con column challenges them to such a degree though that I need to think some more on the topic and evaluate how I feel. So... The prostitution thing is up in the air as of now.


I went to Georgetown Law. I took out student loans. I knew several of my classmates had helpful "uncles" as an alternative to the loans. At the time felt morally superior. Given student loan laws in this country... I now feel intellectually inferior and envy those ladies their loan free existence.

 

[monarch64]

I did a pageant in 2015, and won a position on court (one queen, and princesses). It ended up being one of the best things I've ever done. I have NO self esteem about my body, and forcing myself on stage in a swim suit, all 170# of me, next to size 00 friends. I used to never wear any shorts that would show my thighs, and would cover up at the beach/pool unless I was actually inside the water. It was a challenge and I love it. I've made some of my best friends in the process.


I look forward to doing a Mrs. version in the future. I don't find anything wrong with wanting to care about your looks, and trying to compete for it. There already are competitions for sports, for intelligence.... I will never win anything remotely "smart" or physical. What's wrong with wanting to work on something I might have an inkling of a chance for, and one that I'm interested in?



People do these things for themselves, for whatever reason. I don't think the progressiveness of feminism ceases to exist just because some women want to participate in these.

Madelise, forgive me for knowing/assuming this, but I think I'm aware of the type of pageants you've participated in. They are niche sort of things, am I wrong? I think the topic of this thread is a generalization but also is referring to white bread ding dong American crap, if you know what I mean. Whatever it is that you participate in is a bit different than Donald Trump's Miss USA, ya know?

Fwiw, you are a splendidly gorgeous lady. And I say that based on your wedding photos you posted recently here in Hangout. However, first and foremost, I've always thought you were a spitfire, clever, intelligent woman who could hold her own in any conversation. Ain't nobody really care about yo body or face, dear.

 

[madelise]

I did a pageant in 2015, and won a position on court (one queen, and princesses). It ended up being one of the best things I've ever done. I have NO self esteem about my body, and forcing myself on stage in a swim suit, all 170# of me, next to size 00 friends. I used to never wear any shorts that would show my thighs, and would cover up at the beach/pool unless I was actually inside the water. It was a challenge and I love it. I've made some of my best friends in the process.


I look forward to doing a Mrs. version in the future. I don't find anything wrong with wanting to care about your looks, and trying to compete for it. There already are competitions for sports, for intelligence.... I will never win anything remotely "smart" or physical. What's wrong with wanting to work on something I might have an inkling of a chance for, and one that I'm interested in?



People do these things for themselves, for whatever reason. I don't think the progressiveness of feminism ceases to exist just because some women want to participate in these.

Madelise, forgive me for knowing/assuming this, but I think I'm aware of the type of pageants you've participated in. They are niche sort of things, am I wrong? I think the topic of this thread is a generalization but also is referring to white bread ding dong American crap, if you know what I mean. Whatever it is that you participate in is a bit different than Donald Trump's Miss USA, ya know?

Fwiw, you are a splendidly gorgeous lady. And I say that based on your wedding photos you posted recently here in Hangout. However, first and foremost, I've always thought you were a spitfire, clever, intelligent woman who could hold her own in any conversation. Ain't nobody really care about yo body or face, dear.

I have friends from that pageant, and from other walks of life that participate in other pageants. I did pageantry when I was little as a toddler and kid. Again, I don't see why in a world where we fight for people to leave us alone re: our appearances, we also go 180 and get upset that some people want to pay attention to their appearances.

Some people really enjoy that shit. If I was thinner (or rather, willing to do anything about not being thinner HAHA) and have more money (seriously, those things are EX PEN SIVE), I would be doing other pageants.

And don't get my situation wrong. I had to FIGHT for my appearance during my own process. Because of my size. I'm their first plus size person EVER in 50 years. And because I don't look like the other women at all. I constantly got flack for it. So yes, it was still about my appearance. If it wasn't, I would've made queen.

 

[momhappy]

^I agree with you madeliese. If we are going to preach about being nonjudgmental about physical appearances, then that should be across the board. If someone wants to dump a bunch of time, energy, and money into beauty (and be judged for it on a stage), then I don't have a problem with that. Many of us put time, energy, and money into beauty (in various degrees) and even though we may not be judged for it on a stage, we know that we are still judged (and judge others) on a daily basis.

 

[madelise]

^I agree with you madeliese. If we are going to preach about being nonjudgmental about physical appearances, then that should be across the board. If someone wants to dump a bunch of time, energy, and money into beauty (and be judged for it on a stage), then I don't have a problem with that. Many of us put time, energy, and money into beauty (in various degrees) and even though we may not be judged for it on a stage, we know that we are still judged (and judge others) on a daily basis.

With us women, it really feels like it's damned if we do, damned if we don't. Either way, we'll be criticized to hell for it, and even by other women! So I say f- it all, and just do what you want so long as your intention is good, and you aren't hurting anyone.

 

[AGBF]

^I agree with you madeliese. If we are going to preach about being nonjudgmental about physical appearances, then that should be across the board. If someone wants to dump a bunch of time, energy, and money into beauty (and be judged for it on a stage), then I don't have a problem with that. Many of us put time, energy, and money into beauty (in various degrees) and even though we may not be judged for it on a stage, we know that we are still judged (and judge others) on a daily basis.

With us women, it really feels like it's damned if we do, damned if we don't. Either way, we'll be criticized to hell for it, and even by other women! So I say f- it all, and just do what you want so long as your intention is good, and you aren't hurting anyone.

I am glad I was just reading this thread. These comments wised me up. It reminds me of the saying, "That's why God gave you two ears and one mouth".

Thank you, friends.

Deb

 

[acaw2015]

Hi all!
My first post in hangout, but I simply had to put this one here,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe_Championships
Ya know, mr universe does exist too, and I would not say they promote anything more "interesting" than a female beauty pageant.
In my country there was a public outcry several years ago and beauty pageants is a thing from the past nowadays here. Interesting to hear your discussions though.