Beautiful stone from a discount place - thoughts?

[toybuilder]

In some ways, I wish I didn''t discover you guys -- sort of an "ignorance is bliss" thing. But my fiancee and I are both engineering-type people with a propensity for analysis, and the more we found and learned about diamonds, the more demanding we''ve gotten.

In an ideal world, we''d get a 1.6 ct, VVS2/VS1 D/E with Ideal/Ideal polish/symmetry and having a good proportion, all for our initial price target of $7000.

Yeah, right.

After much discussion, I''ve come to the conclusion that I wanted to aim for VS1 (and VS2), and EFG (and D, and maybe H), with ideal to very good polich/symmetry. I personally wanted to compromise on size to get the higher grade. My fiancee was willing to compromise on clarity and color for the size.

So we compromised -- and I expanded the budget for searching to $10K, and then to $15K.

I found one likely loose stone at BlueNile that was $15,000. Then, I found the following diamond with a solitaire platinum setting for $14,000. I''d have to pay taxes on the following one.

It''s supposed to be H&A. Since I don''t have the cut angles, I can only take a guess on the HCA - using the default angles, the HCA scores this table/depth at 0.4. I realize that in reality, I could be way off.

A friend that recently purchased his fiancee''s diamond thinks I''d be paying too much of a premium for getting H&A, and that I should insist on better color and zero flourescence.

I''d love to hear what you guys think. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[YoungPapa]

Toybuilder,

The stone you''ve found looks like a pretty sweet deal. While it''s entirely possible the diamond could be a steep/deep that the HCA doesn''t like, most diamonds with a depth of 61.1 and a table of 55 are going to have the crown/pavillion angles that produce great brilliance and fire.

Paying a premium for Hearts and Arrows is a personal choice. Some people really appreciate the time and effort required to produce "perfect" symmetry. Others prefer the savings often associated with "near-perfection". Either way this diamond is sure to be one of the prettiest diamonds you''ll find off or online.

What I personally like most about this diamond is the color/clarity combination. Years ago I purchased my wife a "G" color diamond because I didn''t feel it was worth my extra $$$ to spring for a true "colorless" diamond. Your friend that told you to insist on zero fluorescence has good intentions but is giving bad advice. Faint fluor is a complete non issue. With the VS2 you avoid the headaches that come with SI territory. When people call our shop and ask about a diamond like this I get a big smile on my face. You know why? Because when someone chooses a diamond of this quality I can be about 99% sure they''ll absolutely love it. I don''t have that same confidence with every diamond we sell.

Last point. The price you''ve mentioned is great. Since you say you''re paying tax I assume that means the diamond is local. That''s also a big plus for you in the long run.

Congrats on this (if it becomes yours). Otherwise you''re certainly on the right track.

Jim Schultz

 

[toybuilder]

After some more research, I have a few more questions!

After reading about the "Don''t buy our rejects" stone at www.niceice.com, I''m starting to worry about the "indented natural" in the "5-o''clock" position of the crown -- should I be concerned?

Also, my fiancee may want to get a different setting than the one the diamond is set in -- what is the likely costs inccured for transferring the stone to a new platinum setting? Do I write off the cost of the original platinum setting?

This is so confusing!

 

[valeria101]

The "H&A" laser inscriptio on the girdle of the diamond is only noted as "being there" by GIA. It does not mean anything, really. It might... but the chances that BN overlooked a H&A outside their signature series is not vast. Would it be unpleasant if those crustals turned out to be dark in color after all ?

All these could be cleared out by seeing this diamond, of course.

In the meantime, I see this H_VS1 and several E/F SI1 ideal cuts between 1.5 and 1.6 cts listed nicely below your curremt price range. Say This_E and This_F (others I can't link to, but a search gives them away asap as opposed to WF's listings). In particular, the E seems awfully clean... Any thoughts ?

 

[toybuilder]

Hi Valeria,

The cert I posted is not the one from Blue Nile. There are two Blue Nile stones that are similar in desirability - one of them is a BN Signature Ideal which is smaller, VS1, and significantly more expensive; the other one is very similar to the one I posted but with ID/ID polish/symmetry and a stream of clouds running across the center of the table (which I don''t like).

I like the idea of an H&A and would pay some premium to a diamond cut to the level needed to exhibit good H&A properties. But I definitely agree with you that I should not automatically pay more just because there is an H&A inscribed on it.

Being a bit of an optics person because of my job, I truly feel that proper selection of facets and their angles contributes the most to the beauty of the diamond -- in the ways that matter to me. (I noticed mathematicians express similar feelings about this, btw.)

I know that the naked eye is likely unable to discern the inclusions in an SI1, but *I* would know, and it would bug me forever. If I was buying it strictly for myself, I''d rather get a sub-1ct D-E F-IF, with a VG/EX or better in polish/symmetry, H&A. But that''s *my* personal taste...

In very broad terms, it seems Asian buyers tend to lean toward quality, and American buyers tend to lean toward size... It sure seems that way with cars, electronics, and foods... And now, diamonds! I guess that makes me Asian!

One thing is for sure - it''s been a long trek since my first "education" about a month ago when I stepped into Robbins Brothers. You guys are wonderful, thanks!!

 

[toybuilder]

Well, I saw the ring today. It is absolutely beautiful. My fiancee and I have been diamond shopping/ring shopping for some time now, so we''ve started to develop some sense of what to look for.

Then we walked into Costco to look at the ring that was mailed there from their jewelry program. As soon as I held the diamond ring in front of my eyes, I had an immediate "whoa" moment that I didn''t have with any of the other stones we''ve looked at to date. It was as the "fit and finish" or the facets pulilng together were precisely costructed.

I showed up with a 10X loupe in hand and gave it a good looking over. While I can''t speak for the H&A of this mounted stone, it was very clear from that first moment that the symmetry/geometry was far better than what I saw elsewhere.

With the exception of the one bubble (crystal?) down below the table which I found with a bit of hunting, I couldn''t make out other inclusions in the stone.

My fiancee was in the "bigger-is-better, because I don''t really notice the difference in quality" side of the spectrum said that she now seems my point -- that this stone made her understand how cut might actually contribute to the beauty of the diamond.

One thing we noticed as we were looking at the stone is that the reflections in the pavilion facets seem to scintillate in matched pairs and in an evenly distributed order of tilt; rather than for each pavillion facet to scintillate alone and at more uneven distributions of tilt. Did I imagine this?

The ring would have been $14,000 with a platinum six-prong setting. We would have liked to buy the stone on its own, and not pay the $750 or so of the setting''s cost that factored into the ring. She hated the setting -- it doesn''t have the elegance of a Tiffany six-prong. (I agree with her, too. These generic six-prongs look like quarter-arcade prize-machine claws! Blech.)

So, rather than to to pay $14,000 + tax including almost $1,000 for an unwanted setting, we''ve decided to go back to the search! If the setting was to her liking, we most likely would have bought it today.

It was a bit surreal to walk in with the idea of buying a $14,000 ring, and to walk out of there with a $6 bulk pack of paper rolls... The only way to be more surreal would be to have both of them on the same receipt!

 

[perry]

Toybuilder:

The best way to ensure that you are getting a great diamond is to purchase the Ideal Scope (under "tools" in the site list above). With just a short time looking at a variety of diamonds and by following the tutorial information that will allow you to determine if the diamond will have good light return or not. I recommend the professional model, and the light. If you are going to spend $$$$$, what is a hundred of so to make sure you get a great diamond. You may also wish to consider getting other accessories as well (tweezers and loupe).

Perry

 

[hoorray]

Hi Toybuilder,

If you do a search using the pricescope search, several stones come up meeting your specs. (They don''t have the crown and pav angles listed, so you''d have to call on that). If I were you, now that the two of you have figured out what you want, I''d give a couple of the vendors listing stones a call and see what they can find for you. They can use their very experienced eyes to do a lot of the initial screening, sending you H&A, inclusion, and idealscope pics, and then you can have one or several sent to a local appraiser for you to see. I''m sure you can find a great stone for your budget.

 

[toybuilder]

Well, my fiancee and I made a mad weeklong search through diamond dealers and retail jewelry shops, and closely looked at about 15 stones.

After spending so much time reading about cut and geometry and discussions on optical paths, we had a much better idea of what we were looking for.

The final decision came after a visit to a high-end shopping mall on Sunday when we saw Tiffany rings (we love the setting, but don''t care much for the stones) and then to a Black Starr & Forrest where we saw an AGS 000 stone and a Hearts on Fire stone.

The HoF stone "popped" out at us compared to the AGS 000 stone that was of a higher color (both about 1 ct, the AGS was G, the HoF was J) and looked better, even though my fiancee could tell the color.

The only other stone that "popped" out for us was the Costco ring. This stone is inscribed as being H&A but, being mounted, we had no way of verifying that 100%. Still, looking at the stone, we could make out the arrows and felt that they looked very symmetric and straight.

After we got home and talked more about what stones we liked, it was clear to me that the Costco ring was the right choice. Without her knowing, I went back to Costco the next day. That night, after a casual night out for a dinner and movie, we stopped by the hiking spot where we first got to know each other and I reminesced about our early times together. I then presented the ring to her and caught her by surprise (she thought I had a problem with AmEx that needed straightening out before I could complete the purchase).

In the end, the known Hearts on Fire H&A and the purported Costco H&A were the two stones that we liked. Other AGS0 ideals we thought were acceptable, but not what we wanted. And we turned our noses up at the rest. We turned into diamond snobs!

Thanks guys!

Picture will come soon, when I find a good way to take them without them being so blurry!

 

[Hest88]

Sounds lovely! Can''t wait to see it!

 

[toybuilder]

Here is the diamond under a microscope with a low intensity lighting.

 

[toybuilder]

Here is the diamond under bright lighting. Kinda dirty. Sorry...

 

[toybuilder]

Here is the diamond under the micrscope with a red paper "tube" that I used to approximate a Hearts and Arrows viewer.

 

[toybuilder]

The "H&A" picture is not shot with a real H&A viewer or Firescope, so I'm not sure how well it matches to pictures done with real equipment.

 

[toybuilder]

My scope at work that I used, with the red tissue used to make the "H&A viewer".

 

[rosy]

Did your Fiance not like the Costco setting? Did you have it removed & remounted onto a new setting?

 

[toybuilder]

We decided to keep the original "Tiffany" setting as a travel engagement ring when we go (for example) camping. We will put a CZ in there.

We are in the process of getting a custom ring designed from Sixty East Fine Jewelry in Pasadena and will put our stone into that ring when it is ready.

 

[toybuilder]

It is now a week since I presented the ring to my fiancee. She still thinks the body appears more yellow in low-light conditions, but in really bright light, she can''t notice it. I actually think that she''s seeing the "yellow" in the source light due to the better performance of this stone''s cut. Not that she''s complaining -- she loves the stone and we sometimes just stare at the ring in awe of the "disco ball" effect with white and rainbow spots are cast by sunlight hitting the stone.

Actually, she got a little mad at me because, for a while, I seemed to be staring at the ring more than at her...

It''s funny, because about a year ago, she got mad when I joked that I was going to buy her a ring from Costco... Yet, after all the searching, we decided that Costco was the best one for us!