BE treatment in sapphires - any experts lurking?

[m00sie]

Does anyone know whether it is possible for a sapphire to contain traces of BE treatment, but not be 100% BE heated?

For example, the stones are gently heated in the same machine that is used for the more advanced BE treatment and as a result have picked up traces of BE?

Hopefully you get what I mean lol

Thanks

 

[Nashville]

Is that like being "a little bit pregnant"?

I think BE treated is still BE treated, even if it's just a little. But that's just my opinion, I could be totally wrong. But my guess is they would consider it treatment if it was enough to show up upon close examination.

 

[m00sie]

That's what I was thinking, but then you look at icecream and numerous other products these days that don't actually contain nuts but 'may contain traces of nuts' due to being produced in the same factory lol

It sounds plausible, but I'm no expert and the seller could be pulling my leg!

 

[Nashville]

That's what I was thinking, but then you look at icecream and numerous other products these days that don't actually contain nuts but 'may contain traces of nuts' due to being produced in the same factory lol

It sounds plausible, but I'm no expert and the seller could be pulling my leg!

Yeah, I think the seller is trying to sell you a stone he or she knows is BE treated.

 

[dzop]

That's what I was thinking, but then you look at icecream and numerous other products these days that don't actually contain nuts but 'may contain traces of nuts' due to being produced in the same factory lol

It sounds plausible, but I'm no expert and the seller could be pulling my leg!

I think that this will be followed up by an offer to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Yes, if the sapphire is cooked together with chrysoberyl.

It is common practice to throw whole mines runs (incl. beryls) into the ofen first and ask questions later. Legend has it that this is how beryllium treatment was invented: Sapphires and chrysoberyl grilled in one oven.

 

[Upgradable]

Edward's post has me envisioning lovely gem kabobs!

 

[m00sie]

Thanks for the replies

Interesting to know Edward.

So if I decide to purchase the sapphire, the price I pay should be the going price for a be treated sapphire?

 

[chrono]

I understand that there might be rare cases where a sapphire might naturally contain traces of beryllium?

 

[mastercutgems]

per Mr. Moses, VP of GIA - GTL when doing studies in 2006 they found that naturally occurring Be in sapphires as .7 ppm and Be diffused sapphires as being 10-13ppm

There is a rather large thread on gemologyonline about it and I know I read it in my GIA lab manual.
I know I have tested both with the Challenger digital spectrometer and you can really see the difference ; it is like looking at an ultra-fine point marker compared to a magic marker from the first grade; totally different line in that spectrum.

But to answer the question; yes you can have a sapphire naturally contain Be. But it is not of any great proportion. Not like being a little pregnant

Most respectfully;

 

[Aoife]

Since we're on the subject, is Be treatment an issue with sapphires other than the orangey ones? Or are we worried about other types of treatment on pinks, blues, yellows? It sounds as though beryllium treatment is fairly easy to detect with the right equipment. Are other treatments sneakier?

 

[chrono]

There is beryllium diffusion of all colours of sapphires including yellow, orange, pink, blue and others. No, BE diffusion is not easy to detect and requires every specialized equipment that are uber expensive. Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy or LIBS costs approximately $50K to $80K per unit, LA-ICP-MS is around $300K and SIMS costs around $750K to purchase, hence only a select few labs are able to afford such machine to test for diffusion.

 

[T L]

What can often be detected with microscopic analysis is an untreated stone. When in doubt of treatment, my rule is "stay away." From now on, if I do purchase any corundum, it will be deemed untreated by a reputable lab. I won't even go near regular heat treated stones any longer. This is my own personal rule.

 

[Nashville]

per Mr. Moses, VP of GIA - GTL when doing studies in 2006 they found that naturally occurring Be in sapphires as .7 ppm and Be diffused sapphires as being 10-13ppm

There is a rather large thread on gemologyonline about it and I know I read it in my GIA lab manual.
I know I have tested both with the Challenger digital spectrometer and you can really see the difference ; it is like looking at an ultra-fine point marker compared to a magic marker from the first grade; totally different line in that spectrum.

But to answer the question; yes you can have a sapphire naturally contain Be. But it is not of any great proportion. Not like being a little pregnant

Most respectfully;

It was just a little bit of light humor

 

[Aoife]

Well, I did say "with the right equipment." I didn't say it was cheap equipment! In other words, there are places you can send a sapphire that can make those determinations. So much of what I've found in terms of articles about Be treatments seems to be about Padparadscha-type colors, and I was wondering if the other treatments we need to be concerned about with sapphires are Beryllium based, or are there other things that are harder to detect. And, if they are Beryllium based, why the range in colors? Does it depend on the colour of the stone that is placed in with the chrysoberyl (or whatever the contaminant is)?

 

[mastercutgems]

Nashville; no offence taken I really laughed when I read it So please do not stop the humor it is always a much needed thing; I do it and get into trouble all the time; but it will not stop me...yet

As for colors of Be heating; there is a wide range of colors; Be diffusion opposed to surface diffusion; totally different creature. But correct me if I am wrong... as I sometimes am... Songea sapphire was the first one to get Be heated as it was a somewhat nasty colored little gem gravel alluvial from the river bed; but colors were muted. They ( native countrymen) heated as usual and in one batch the colors were vivid and unreal; next batch different furnace the colors were not really great. They tore down the furnace and found a melted glob between the fire brick and had it tested and it was chrysoberyl. Light bulbs went off and they tried it again with chrysoberyl in the mix. Well the ugly muted colors came out green, yellow, orange, pink, pink-orange, red, etc. thus be heated or diffused sapphire was born.

Now this was told to me by a gentleman in Natal South Africa that was really into it back some 12 years ago and I was offered the material and still have some of the rough; very intense colors. They have perfected it now; but that was the old story of how they came across the process as told to me some 12 years ago. As i had Be heated rough before i ever heard of the material on the market some 5 years later and a friend that was in Thailand had some cut gems and swore they were natural. Back then my old challenger spectrometer did not have the polarizing filter and B and W monitor; but even back then you could see a wide or sharp band in the Be spectrum area.

But you can make logical determinations on color with a good digital or monitor style spectrometer as if the colors that come from elements like chrome, iron, etc. are not visible in the spectral lines then you have a huge band in the Be spectrum; you can just about bet you have a Be treated gem. But that goes for other gems as well like with diamonds; if the element that causes that color is not present in the spectrum; there is something fishy in Denmark; no offense to anyone from Denmark

Most respectfully;

 

[Aoife]

Thanks, Dana, I appreciate the response. I asked about the range of colours because my husband and I had been looking at pink sapphires, and were told, in all seriousness by the jeweler, that pink sapphires were not subject to Be treatment, we only needed to worry about orangey sapphires. The conversation kind of went downhill from there.