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Be CAREFUL With That Tesla

iLander

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2010
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So I didn't say anything when a few people mentioned having Teslas on order. I had hoped that electric car technology had improved since we had ours. Apparently it hasn't;

Article excerpt regarding NYTimes test drive;

For his drive, Times writer John Broder took the Tesla Model S sedan and its 265-mile range from Washington, D.C., to Norwich, Conn., to test the new "supercharger" free charging stations Tesla had installed along Interstate 95. Trouble began, as it often does, in New Jersey, when the Model S' range estimates began dropping faster than Broder could rack up miles.

To make his stop in Milford, Conn., Broder had to drive without heat and at 54 mph, about 26 mph less than the average observed speed on northeastern turnpikes. He made it, barely, and recharged for an hour to get 186 miles back in the batteries. After driving an additional 80 miles, Broder parked — without plugging the Model S in — and spent the night, ready to use the 90 miles showing on the car's range guide the next morning.

When that cold morning arrived, the Tesla had a surprise: Overnight, its batteries had lost enough charge to cut the car's range to 26 miles. After an attempt to recharge at a nearby quick charging outlet, the Model S died on the road and had to be lifted by flatbed — since its electric parking brakes would not release without current — to the Milford station.

The winter weather played a large role in the Tesla's poor performance; all electric vehicles hold less energy in temperature extremes.


We had a small electric car for 4 years. The exact problem played out with ours; the range seemed to vary based on the mood of the car. :rolleyes: We'd start out with 100% charge, and the advertised 37 mile range (GEM electric car by Mercedes) and after 1/2 mile, it dropped to 20 mile range, and 70% charge. We didn't care, we only drove it a mile or two at a time. If driven 3 miles, it started at 100% charge and ended with 20% charge. Many times I drove home with the thing beeping like mad, since it was out of juice. I'm just glad we didn't have to go any further. And it never reached the advertised speed of 30 mph, it maxed at 22. If we didn't plug it in every single time, it would start at 70% charge and drop to 30% before we left the driveway. Our weather extreme was heat from 70 degrees to 95.

Not sure if these issues apply to other electric cars, but it sounds like it might.

Just sayin' . . .

Full article; http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/elon-musk-calls-york-times-model-strands-test-200514420.html
 
Interesting article. Seems like that could really be a serious problem, leaving people stranded if they are unable to get to a charging station. Seems like more hassle than it's worth.
 
Coming from a future Telsa owner (car arrives in roughly two weeks) this actually doesn't deter me at all. We live in Michigan. I know how to take care of the car. This reporter clearly had no idea what he was doing, got some bad information from an employee (which was clearly noted in the article), and did not plug the car in overnight as we are instructed to do as owners. If you're interested, I'll be more than happy to provide you with dozens of other stories from other Tesla owners in sunny and not so sunny climes who have gotten amazing range out of their vehicles.
 
vc10um|1360688361|3378317 said:
Coming from a future Telsa owner (car arrives in roughly two weeks) this actually doesn't deter me at all. We live in Michigan. I know how to take care of the car. This reporter clearly had no idea what he was doing, got some bad information from an employee (which was clearly noted in the article), and did not plug the car in overnight as we are instructed to do as owners. If you're interested, I'll be more than happy to provide you with dozens of other stories from other Tesla owners in sunny and not so sunny climes who have gotten amazing range out of their vehicles.

I couldn't agree more with vc. Seems like the title of this thread should say, "Make sure you read that Tesla manual!"

Just sayin'... :rolleyes:
 
Tuckins1|1360687987|3378312 said:
Interesting article. Seems like that could really be a serious problem, leaving people stranded if they are unable to get to a charging station. Seems like more hassle than it's worth.

I agree. Fine if you're driving around town, but a PITA for longer trips.
 
Going back to your original post, I don't even see how you can compare your electric car to a Tesla Model S. They're made for totally different styles of use. Teslas are designed to be the only car you own, or at least be a full-functioning car. The one you owned with a 37 mile range and a max speed of 30 mph clearly wasn't. Also, It's well-known that major strides have been made in the battery technology, charging technology, and overall efficiency of the car.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that back in the early 1900s when gasoline-powered vehicles were introduced, with no infrastructure (ie: GAS STATIONS) to support them, people had "range anxiety" too. So you know what they did? They PLANNED! WHAT A CONCEPT! They sat down, with a map, knowing *about* how far they could go with a full tank of gas, and they found places on their route BEFORE they would reach empty to fill up! So now, as an electric car owner, you know about how far your car can go, you build in a buffer, and you PLAN YOUR STOPS for charging! It's really not difficult.

It's completely irresponsible to fault the technology because the person using it attempted to push a vehicle to its maximum in adverse conditions. That's like filling up your car, having it say you have 400 miles of range, opening your windows, driving at 90 miles an hour, and expecting it to make it 401! It's just not smart and to bash an entire company because of one idiot is just plain irresponsible.
 
amc80|1360689645|3378332 said:
Tuckins1|1360687987|3378312 said:
Interesting article. Seems like that could really be a serious problem, leaving people stranded if they are unable to get to a charging station. Seems like more hassle than it's worth.

I agree. Fine if you're driving around town, but a PITA for longer trips.

Actually, those Supercharger stations you're hearing about? They'll be roughly 150 miles apart (MUCH less than the maximum distance the vehicle can travel) and provide 150 miles of charge in 30 minutes. They are free to Tesla owners and there will be over 100 of them installed in the next 2 years. I can't wait to take this baby on a long-distance road trip!
 
A little more balanced approach to the vehicle: http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/12/3969260/going-the-distance-driving-tesla-model-s-in-the-real-world

ETA: The Tesla itself actually maintains more of its range than any other electric vehicle in extreme temperatures. This is because the car is equipped with an electrical system which heats or cools the battery pack to maintain its temperature in an ideal operating range. It does reduce your range somewhat (obviously b/c it's operating additional components) but not nearly the numbers seen on cars like the Nissan Leaf, which can lose up to 1/3 or so of its range in the cold. Here's the rub: the Tesla also continues this heating/cooling OVERNIGHT so that your batteries are not dead in the morning should you not be able to plug it in, UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT YOU WILL PLUG IN AT THE NEXT OPPORTUNITY AND PROVIDE THE CAR WITH AMPLE OPERATING CHARGE (note, this shuts itself off if you're getting dangerously low and the car will shut down all but the most vital systems if the battery has less than roughly 5% capacity). So essentially, what happened to the completely underinformed NYT writer was an example of the car trying to save itself from the idiocy of not plugging it in overnight in cold temperatures. He just went above and beyond what the car can prepare itself for and he completely drained it.
 
vc10um said:
Going back to your original post, I don't even see how you can compare your electric car to a Tesla Model S. They're made for totally different styles of use. Teslas are designed to be the only car you own, or at least be a full-functioning car. The one you owned with a 37 mile range and a max speed of 30 mph clearly wasn't. Also, It's well-known that major strides have been made in the battery technology, charging technology, and overall efficiency of the car.

It's completely irresponsible to fault the technology because the person using it attempted to push a vehicle to its maximum in adverse conditions. That's like filling up your car, having it say you have 400 miles of range, opening your windows, driving at 90 miles an hour, and expecting it to make it 401! It's just not smart and to bash an entire company because of one idiot is just plain irresponsible.

Didn't bash. I said "Not sure if these issues apply to other electric cars, but it sounds like it might. Just sayin'"

I was "just saying", as in "be careful", "something to think about", etc.

But I am skeptical of most new technologies. I take a wait-and-see approach. It took me 3 years to adopt CD's (which were competing with vinyl, mini-disks and laser disks at the time), and 2 years to get a cell phone ("who would want to call me?"). It's my nature, good or bad. I've also seen a lot of techno-hype come and go: Betamax is for you! Sony Mini Disk books! Laserdisk, see it here! Zune is the music player of choice! So, yeah, I'm very skeptical.

I really do hope that you have a wonderful experience driving your Tesla. I hope you love every second of it.

Please let us know how it goes, I'm interested.
 
This is actually not the first Tesla test drive by a major news reporter that ended up having to be towed back home. Same thing happened elsewhere a couple months ago (I believe in Europe). Tesla is claiming that the NY reported did not follow basic instructions, even though he did follow the advice given by Tesla customer service. So why is Tesla still giving the same advice if you call them given the previous failure on a similar test drive by a reporter as well.

I think that it will be found that the Tesla will not actually live up to the expectations they have created for the car. Not if two major Auto Industry reporters following the specific advice of Tesla for their test drive manage to run the car dead.

Perry
 
perry|1360696594|3378426 said:
This is actually not the first Tesla test drive by a major news reporter that ended up having to be towed back home. Same thing happened elsewhere a couple months ago (I believe in Europe).

Perry, I'd love to see that article. As far as I know, none exists. I feel like such an issue would've been referenced in these other articles discussing the recent NYT article as evidence of additional failures. The only other reported towing due to dead battery that I've heard of on a Tesla was in Florida when a father and his son maxed out the range of their Model S by driving it over 420 miles. They were going for the record, so they intended to drive the battery to dead.

iLander, I will certainly update you and everyone else (I know Dee*Jay is particularly interested) on the Tesla after we receive it. Should have a pretty good garner on the cold-weather behavior pretty early on, since it's still pretty wintery here in Michigan.
 
vc10um said:
Actually, those Supercharger stations you're hearing about? They'll be roughly 150 miles apart (MUCH less than the maximum distance the vehicle can travel) and provide 150 miles of charge in 30 minutes. They are free to Tesla owners and there will be over 100 of them installed in the next 2 years. I can't wait to take this baby on a long-distance road trip!

So every two hours I have to stop for 30 minutes? Or go longer and charge longer? No thanks. I totally get why some people might love this car, but I'm not one of them. Personal opinion.
 
It wasn't just an article. You can see a video as well.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-reviews-tesla-roadster_206233.htm

Tesla Sued "Top-Gear" for Libel and Malicious Falsehood. Judge tossed out the original suit and allowed Tesla to refile with a better defined and structured lawsuit (and the malicious falsehood claim got changed to "reasonable grounds that Top Gear had intentionally significantly misrepresented the range". Judge tossed that as well stating that it appeared that Tesla seemed determined to get a ruling declaring that ”Top Gear” had lied; when there was no such evidence.


One of the more interesting observations I have just doing a web search for reviews is the dearth of auto writers review of the Tesla. It seems that Tesla is fairly shy about lending the car to auto writers. Normally Automobile Manufacturers are more than happy to allow any certified member of the Auto-Press a test drive of any of their vehicles. For new and just introduced models their might be a waiting list of a few months; but everyone gets their chance (including reporters who work a any large city newspaper with an automotive section).

So a search turns up all the big name auto magazines and a few others starting in about 2010. But where is the Milwaukee paper's review, How about the Chicago's paper review, etc, etc.


It seems that Tesla is not allowing a lot of ready free access to the general auto press - and I have to wonder why.

Perry
 
Oh. The Top Gear debacle?

1) That was the Roadster. Different battery. Different vehicle. Really not germaine to this discussion whatsoever.
2) I had a second point, but seeing as the first one renders the Top Gear discussion useless, I'll refrain from that can of worms.

As for lending the vehicle, the truth of the matter is, there just aren't that many to go around! Tesla uses most of the "extra" models it has as test drive vehicles in their flagship stores. Most of the vehicles are produced directly for the consumer that orders them...there's not a lot of room for producing the extras for the press. But clearly enough people were able to drive it to name it Motor Trend Car of the Year, Automobile Magazine Car of the Year, and Yahoo! Autos Car of the Year.

Is it the perfect car for everyone? Absolutely not. But the fact of the matter is, there are now THOUSANDS of these on the road, and the feedback has been EXCEEDINGLY positive. And here's the thing: it's only going to get BETTER.
 
Just saw one yesterday in my neighborhood and damn near died of envy. Super, super cool. If I owned one, I'd be showing it off every chance I got. :bigsmile:
 
rubyshoes|1360704499|3378554 said:
Just saw one yesterday in my neighborhood and damn near died of envy. Super, super cool. If I owned one, I'd be showing it off every chance I got. :bigsmile:

Facebook-style :Like: :D
 
YIKES. I actually recently got stranded on a long distance road trip in Spain, and just thinking about worrying if I'll make it to the next charger is stressing me out. Flash backs! :errrr: :cheeky:

I'm sure it's easy enough to plan your trip, but I'm too lazy to plan and too impatient to wait for a car to recharge.

That said, the car is badass looking and I'm sure it'll improve with time. There have to be early adopters of all technology for it to improve, so good for you vc10um!
 
I know nothing about Teslas but I'm interested to hear what you think about yours after driving it for a while, Vc. It's a nice looking car!
 
thing2of2|1360706002|3378584 said:
YIKES. I actually recently got stranded on a long distance road trip in Spain, and just thinking about worrying if I'll make it to the next charger is stressing me out. Flash backs! :errrr: :cheeky:

I'm sure it's easy enough to plan your trip, but I'm too lazy to plan and too impatient to wait for a car to recharge.

That said, the car is badass looking and I'm sure it'll improve with time. There have to be early adopters of all technology for it to improve, so good for you vc10um!
me too.. ::)
 
ascari_2|1360859784|3379985 said:

I'd been waiting to see the graph ascari! Thanks for posting this!

iLander, I don't think it's that hard to keep going...he was going at least 6-7 mph faster in every instance than was noted in the article...I wouldn't call that a couple...that's enough to get you pulled over in many states! It's that difference in mph that did not jive with how the car SHOULD have performed per his article based on other performance metrics, and that's why everyone got upset.

In the end, the moral of the story is, those of us who are willing to be early adopters of new technologies must step up to the plate so that companies have the interest and the capital to move forward and improve their products. We are willing to learn how the machines operate and to intelligently, not recklessly, push their limits to provide valuable feedback to the companies.

thing2 and DF, I applaud you for knowing your own limits! :lol: Me? Well, on long trips, DH and I usually have to stop every 2.5 hours or so anyway for a bathroom break which we either then use to grab a snack or fill up. I figure now we'll just be able to sit in the reststop and eat instead of heading back to the car and chowing down en route.
 
iLander|1360861663|3380005 said:
ascari_2 said:

Good find, but honestly, if it's that hard to keep it going (a few miles per hour over 45?), then that's more thinking than I can handle.

I drove a Prius for years, I am totally pro-fossil-fuels-alternative, but it seems to be a very thinky car.

You have to realize that comparing a Prius to the Tesla S is like comparing a CZ to a diamond. The Tesla is being built as an ultra-high performance luxury sedan whereas the Prius was and still is being built as an econobox car. Looking at the logs, the car was spent a lot of time between 60 and 70mph, so I am not sure where you are getting the idea that it's difficult to go over 45. It's not hard to see, but the so-called reporter simply lied through his teeth.
 
vc10um|1360863232|3380019 said:
ascari_2|1360862917|3380016 said:

You beat me too it.

I mean, seriously, this guy at the NYT is scum and I hope they post a retraction.

Scum? Over a disputed car review? Good lord!

I have no dog in this fight, but I don't see the motive for the reviewer to completely fabricate a review. I do see a motive in Tesla aggressively disputing the review.
 
ascari_2 said:
iLander|1360861663|3380005 said:
ascari_2 said:

Good find, but honestly, if it's that hard to keep it going (a few miles per hour over 45?), then that's more thinking than I can handle.

I drove a Prius for years, I am totally pro-fossil-fuels-alternative, but it seems to be a very thinky car.

You have to realize that comparing a Prius to the Tesla S is like comparing a CZ to a diamond. The Tesla is being built as an ultra-high performance luxury sedan whereas the Prius was and still is being built as an econobox car. Looking at the logs, the car was spent a lot of time between 60 and 70mph, so I am not sure where you are getting the idea that it's difficult to go over 45. It's not hard to see, but the so-called reporter simply lied through his teeth.

The over 45 was a reference to the graph that was linked, showing a big fuss that he wasn't actually going 45.

And how would you feel if I called your car an econobox and a CZ?

Honestly, I don't really care that much, and everyone's getting het up for no reason. I just said be Careful, which all of you seem to be confirming with your posts about the proper way to drive the car. I stand by my intent; keep your eye on the available range.

Ultra-high performance? Nope, this is ultra high performance, the new Porsche supercar hybrid :bigsmile: :
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/04/porsche-918-closer-to-production/

porsche_918_spyder_04-660x466.jpg
 
thing2of2|1360864724|3380038 said:
vc10um|1360863232|3380019 said:
ascari_2|1360862917|3380016 said:

You beat me too it.

I mean, seriously, this guy at the NYT is scum and I hope they post a retraction.

Scum? Over a disputed car review? Good lord!

I have no dog in this fight, but I don't see the motive for the reviewer to completely fabricate a review. I do see a motive in Tesla aggressively disputing the review.

Scum may have gone a bit too far, but this guy didn't even give the car a chance. There is evidence from his drives of doing everything in his power to get the battery to die (like driving it in around a parking lot for over a half mile after the range-meter reached "0" before finally giving up and plugging in) and he has a previous bent against electric cars (NYT site keeps crashing my browser so I can't link the article). It's just unfortunate.
 
iLander|1360866393|3380047 said:
ascari_2 said:
iLander|1360861663|3380005 said:
ascari_2 said:

Good find, but honestly, if it's that hard to keep it going (a few miles per hour over 45?), then that's more thinking than I can handle.

I drove a Prius for years, I am totally pro-fossil-fuels-alternative, but it seems to be a very thinky car.

You have to realize that comparing a Prius to the Tesla S is like comparing a CZ to a diamond. The Tesla is being built as an ultra-high performance luxury sedan whereas the Prius was and still is being built as an econobox car. Looking at the logs, the car was spent a lot of time between 60 and 70mph, so I am not sure where you are getting the idea that it's difficult to go over 45. It's not hard to see, but the so-called reporter simply lied through his teeth.

The over 45 was a reference to the graph that was linked, showing a big fuss that he wasn't actually going 45.

And how would you feel if I called your car an econobox and a CZ?

Honestly, I don't really care that much, and everyone's getting het up for no reason. I just said be Careful, which all of you seem to be confirming with your posts about the proper way to drive the car. I stand by my intent; keep your eye on the available range.

Ultra-high performance? Nope, this is ultra high performance, the new Porsche supercar hybrid :bigsmile: :
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/04/porsche-918-closer-to-production/

I'd say that if you are limping at 45 mph (implying that there is no possible way you can/should go any faster) that does not mean you're cruising at 55!

As for my reference to a Prius as an econobox I still stand by it. An econobox is generally described as a small, boxy, fuel-efficient car with few luxuries and a low sticker price. That's exactly what a Prius is. Ever since its inception it's been touted as a small, fuel-efficient, not many frills, affordable car. And when you compare it to a car like the Tesla, they really are worlds apart.

Being careful and taking care of your car as your are required to should be implicit to everyone alive. But there is a much bigger issue in this story. A reporter (a person that we count on to tell the facts) had gone far and above simply overlooking a few minor details, and instead did everything in his power to bring about a negative result. It's akin to taking a brand new car for a test, putting sugar in the tank, driving it around on empty, and then saying that the car wouldn't perform.

And yes, any car that can stand up to a BMW M5 and get to 60 in such a short amount of time (especially given its size) is an ultra-high performance car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvHTN0Yi1t4
 
ascari, I don't know where you're located, but if you're ever in SE Michigan, you're more than welcome to come for a ride in our Tesla! :wavey: :appl:
 
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