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Bang for my Buck - Is it really neccesary for it to be VVS?

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MissMe

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
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9
Hello,


My mother has always told me "VVS no less", so now that I am old enough to start buying my own, I thought I was ask if it was necessary or can other things come into account that would make a diamond still "eye" worthy without the hefty price tag of VVS?


I hope this makes sense...


P.S I''m looking at Cushion Cut (Modern Brilliant?) stones maybe 2-4 carats.


Thank you everyone!
 

beach

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
714
VS2 is usually a safe bet and will help lower the cost. However, if you can find an eye clean SI1 you could save bundles. VVS is overkill IMO and makes it hard to even identify your stone with a loupe.
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,231
Most people here will advocate SI clarity instead of VVS or even VS. Why? In an eye-clean SI stone, you can''t tell the difference between that and an IF. So why pay for something you can''t see with your eyes? Especially in the 2-4 carat range where you''re looking, VVS clarity will carry an enormous price premium.

Some people value clarity as a symbol of purity and won''t accept anything less than IF, or VVS, or VS, or whatever your personal threshold happens to be. Some have a cutoff that they''re personally comfortable with, known around here as "mind-clean."

That said, my diamond is VVS2. Not because I specifically looked for VVS, but because the one I "clicked" with and that was within our budget happened to be I/VVS2.
 

MissMe

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
9
Thanks for your quick responses!


So would it be safe to say that if I was to go with VS1 ...(SI I dont know if it would be "mind clean" for me)....should I stick with higher color grades D-F??
 

mrscushion

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 15, 2008
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3,309
Date: 3/22/2009 11:26:20 PM
Author: MissMe
Thanks for your quick responses!
So would it be safe to say that if I was to go with VS1 ...(SI I dont know if it would be 'mind clean' for me)....should I stick with higher color grades D-F??
Not necessarily. Same thing -- whatever your "mind clean" threshold is. Some people are extremely color sensitive, most people aren't. On this board, usually the recommendation is to look for the best cut possible and go lower on color (G/H will probably look perfectly white, or even I/J, particularly for cushion cut stones) to get the best deal possible.
 

marcy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Feb 27, 2007
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23,560
I would go with a VS2 or eye clean SI near colorless diamond and spend the money on an ideal cut diamond.
 

MissMe

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
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9
Oh what a newbie I am, I totally forgot to consider the "cut" as well.......

So I guess to stick with "Ideal Cut" or above if I decide to go with VS1 and maybe F color.
I just dont want a shoddy looking stone cause I''ve seen better graded stones then what I am currently looking for and they were absolutely horrible (despite high clarity and almost clean color ...it looked grey and muddy)...this is my biggest fear..
 

Moh 10

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
1,004
"Necessary to get a VVS?
Of course not.
Then again it is not "necessary" for you to do anything except breath, pay taxes and die.


People vary.
You must find your own comfort zone.

Many people draw the line at eye clean.
They see no reason to pay more for a higher clarity since they can't see the inculsions with the naked eye.
Who am I to argue?

On the other hand a few people must have a D IF and size is less important to them than getting a D IF.
Top color and clairity represents purity to them, we call it mind-clean.
Top color and clarity is as important to them as getting a real diamond instead of an alternative.
Again, who am I to argue?

You must find your own comfort zone, unless of course you prefer to go along with what the largest group does.
Again, who am I to argue with that?

I recommend you go in to see diamonds of all clarity grades and make up your own mind based on your own direct experience.
 

mrscushion

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
3,309
What you are talking about probably has to due with cut. There are some really badly cut stones out there! Getting a stone with an "ideal" or "very good" rating on the certificate is only the start.

For round brilliant cut stones, it's very much about the numbers (table, depth, angles, etc.), i.e. certain combination of numbers will make your diamond sparkle like no other and, particularly with the help of this wonderful board, getting the very best cut will be fairly easy. I am no expert, but there are some experts here that are amazingly helpful. The bad news is that for cushion cut stones (which you are looking for), it's not so much about the numbers. It's all about seeing as many cushions as you can in person to get a good sense for what's a great cushion. To get a head start, I would recommend that you take a look at the great videos and tutorials on cushions at http://www.goodoldgold.com. When my fiance and I were looking for cushions, the amazing stones on that site helped us set a benchmark that other stones (in our case, Canadian) had to be able to live up to.

Speaking of that site, Engagement Rings Direct (ERD) and Good Old Gold are two vendors that are highly trusted on this site, particularly for cushion cut diamonds. There are others, too, but those two names come up most often. Check them out when you get a chance.

Lastly, it sounds like you are settling on F VS1 as your "mind-clean" threshold. I would really encourage you to keep an open mind and not dismiss lower color and clarity grades outright. Your perfect stone may come along and you don't want to not look at it because it's a G -- know what I mean? My cushion happens to be F VS1, but that is more of a coincidence, because the right stone for us came along and we wanted to snap it up. I would have been very happy with an H SI1 as well and it would have also been a bit more budget friendly.
 

rookie1981

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
17
I definitely agree with the comments above regarding color. Maybe you are more sensitive than I am, but I went to a local jeweler and could not tell a difference between an E and an H. There are some great threads on color you should look for, as well as some of the videos on Good Old Gold that do side by side comparisons of similar sized diamonds of different color grades. Allowing yourself to consider "near colorless" grades (G-J) will open up so many more possibilities. My suggestion is to maximize cut quality and then factor carat, color, and clarity into the picture to see where you fall within your budget.

Happy hunting!
 

honey22

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
4,458
Not unless you have superhuman eyesight! Drop to VS clarity (eyeclean SI1 can sometimes be hard to find in larger stones) and you will save a gazillion dollars
 

FrekeChild

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
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19,456
Personally I think I''d go with around a G-H with color, and a VS1-2 to get the most bang for your buck. As for cut, Ideal is best, but it''s whatever speaks to you.

I hope we get to see some pics!!!
 

LoRez

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
5
I just purchased an SI1 Cushion for an e-ring, and both myself & my fiancee are extremely happy with it. I actually put a deposit down on a VVS2, but changed my mind as the SI1 just performed better under close inspection and was completely eye-clean! When I took it to get it independently appraised, the appraiser nailed every one of the specs without having seen the GIA cert. The only discrepancy came when he got to clarity; he initially rated it as somewhere between VS1/VS2. When I told him it was actually graded as SI1 by GIA, he acted surprised. So maybe we got lucky in finding an extremely nice SI1, I don''t know? I have pics of the stone & the finished ring, still haven''t figured out exactly how to include/attach them to my posts, though!!!

The cut has a lot to do with it when you''re talking Cushions as well - I found that I generally gravitated towards stones that GIA labeled as "Cushion Brilliant" moreso than those tagged as "Cushion Modified Brilliant." Symmetry also makes a difference - the SI1 was rated VG, whereas the VVS2 was a G, and I could tell the difference both under the loupe & under the lights! Look at as many different cushions in your size/price range as you can, and you will begin to discern the differences in what you see. Only then will you know what you truly will be happy with, and what matters little to you.

Good luck...
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/22/2009 10:38:27 PM
Author:MissMe
Hello,


My mother has always told me 'VVS no less', so now that I am old enough to start buying my own, I thought I was ask if it was necessary or can other things come into account that would make a diamond still 'eye' worthy without the hefty price tag of VVS?


I hope this makes sense...


P.S I'm looking at Cushion Cut (Modern Brilliant?) stones maybe 2-4 carats.


Thank you everyone!
Cut will give your diamond beauty, so very important to concentrate on. Colour - can be visible but if the cut is good even lower colours will still be stunning - so this comes down to personal preference and budget. Clarity - eyeclean SI can be an excellent choice if the cut is good, but again it depends again on personal preference and budget.

To some, nothing less than D IF or VVS will do, it can be a ' mindclean' thing for them. Others are fine with F or G VS and others any mix of colour and SI clarity - as long as the cut is great and the diamond eyeclean, you will have a pretty rock. Also I am assuming we are discussing GIA lab graded colour and clarity here.
 
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