Bait and Switch 5 carat diamond need advice

[Cherryheart]

I purchased a 5.01 carat I SI1 EGL USA (US 907256505D) from my local jeweler. This was probably my 4th upgrade with this jeweler over the past 25 years. I was given receipts and appraisal for insurance. The jeweler then set the ring in a setting that he custom made. Fast forward 5 years and I decided to change my setting. I went to a different jeweler that a friend highly recommended. I never let anyone clean my ring, in other words the ring has never been out of my hands. The first thing jeweler #2 wanted to do was to look at the ring under a microscope (in the setting of course). I had told the jeweler that I have an EGL report for the stone. When he was looking at the ring he turned to me and said "did you know that there is a GIA inscription on the girdle". I had no ideal. The jeweler said that some stones are appraised from 2 different labs. We decided to get a copy on the GIA report 2151147852. The report came back saying the diamond was a 5 carat J SI2.Jeweler #2 said because of the lower grade it was probably submitted to a different lab. I just recently started comparing the two reports. I made some discoveries that just weren't adding up. One, the date on the GIA report says it was done on December 11, 2012. The date on the EGL report says it was done December 20, 2012. The other thing that looked funny was the measurements were slightly off. I ended up calling GIA. I gave them all the Information regarding the 2 reports. GIA emphatically said it wasn't possible that they could be the same diamond. They pointed out that 1) the inclusions were all wrong, 2) the measurements were wrong, and 3) they would have never missed that in the EGL report says there is an extra facet. I don't know what to do. Do I go back to Jeweler #1 and give him this story. He'll probably say Jeweler #2 switched the stone. Which I know he didn't. Is there a right way to go about this. My receipt shows I purchased a diamond with a EGL report. My diamond says something different. Can I prove that Jewel #1 was in possession of the GIA diamond?

 

[arkieb1]

EGL is usually out or incorrect in colour and clarity compared to GIA they are usually more generous with inclusions too. I'd guess it's the same stone with two different labs and they have given you the report that markets the stone as better than it really is in order to sell it for more.

I do agree it's odd that the measurements for things like % table size etc are different, those numbers should in theory be the same.... so I'm not sure if it's the same diamond or two different diamonds. Perhaps people in the industry can comment.

 

[oldminer]

I think you have the same diamond you always had. Buying a diamond with an EGL report was a error that you may need to take some responsibility for. You might not have realized what was going on, but a bit of research in the market or on Pricescope would have made the situation with grading inaccuracy very apparent. In some sense,you now know the truth thanks to the GIA inscription on the girdle. You don't need a new GIA report or have any doubt about the diamond now.

There is not sufficient reason so far to think anything was switched. It would not be for any major financial gain by a retail jeweler. It just would be so very unusual to happen to have such a similar large diamond waiting just for a near perfect match to roll in. I think you are ok and probably only paid for J-Si2 even though you had hope you bought an I-Si1.... That's how this misrepresentation game works. You buy the better deal because you don't know the paperwork is off graded. It is a long time to go back to the original seller for a refund. Likely, the value is just fine. You are not alone, for sure. I sympathize and many others will too. You have likely done reasonably well since the grades are relatively close. I have seen far worse situations.

 

[lovedogs]

EGL is usually out or incorrect in colour and clarity compared to GIA they are usually more generous with inclusions too. I'd guess it's the same stone with two different labs and they have given you the report that markets the stone as better than it really is in order to sell it for more.

Exactly. EGL is much softer on cut quality, inclusions, etc. I bet it's the same stone but GIA is the accurate report (EGL is often not accurate). I wouldn't ever recommend buying a stone with an EGL certification becuase you just genuinely don't know what you are getting.

 

[whitewave]

EGL color can be off by 2 or more grades.

 

[GliderPoss]

Yeah stats are close enough that I doubt this is two different stones.

 

[motownmama]

What’s the current status? Did you have the stone put in a new setting?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

3) they would have never missed that in the EGL report says there is an extra facet.
EGL would have judged there was an extra facet from a 3D non contact scan that give the proportions. Thier sloppyness means they never checkd to see if there was actually an exctra facet - so that is not evidence

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The good news is you probably paid for a J SI2 because EGL stones usually actually trade at a fair price for what they really are. We did a survey 15+ years ago and found the best bargains were EGL diamonds.

 

[Cherryheart]

Thank you so much for your replies. I understand that EGL isn’t as strict on grading as GIA that’s why I assumed it was the same stone. I guess when GIA told me that after reviewing both reports that it wasn’t possible, it got me thinking. I also looked at the reports because I wanted to check out the HCA score. The GIA scored 5.2, the EGL scored a 3.7. I should also say the reason I even started looking at the reports was because of what I learned from this forum. I am now much wiser (hopefully). I guess if everyone thinks it’s the same stone, then I might send it in for a recut. I was told by BGD a recut would bring it to 4.6 - .4.75. I just want it to have more fire. Right now it’s face up small, and looks like a 4.6 anyway. Any thoughts?

 

[Dancing Fire]

But wait a minute guys...

If this stone went to GIA lab first on Dec. 11, then to EGL on Dec. 20 , shouldn't the EGL report under comment say ...GIA # 2151147852 inscribed on the girdle?

 

[Cherryheart]

The good news is you probably paid for a J SI2 because EGL stones usually actually trade at a fair price for what they really are. We did a survey 15+ years ago and found the best bargains were EGL diamonds.

Hi Garry,
You tell me if this was a fair deal. I was given a trade-in credit of $36,340 for a 3.51 I SI1 radiant cut. I then paid the difference in cash of $46,835. The total for the 5.01 came to $83,175.

 

[Cherryheart]

But wait a minute guys...

If this stone went to GIA lab first on Dec. 11, then to EGL on Dec. 20 , shouldn't the EGL report under comment say ...GIA # 2151147852 inscribed on the girdle?

Thank you for reminding me of that. Actually I did call EGL and they said the GIA inscription would have been noted on the report. But it wasn’t on my report.

 

[oldminer]

I suggest you have BGD physically inspect the stone to be certain it will hold up safely to their recutting process. If they think it is safe to proceed, then you'll end up with a superior looking diamond that will not be a lot smaller, but will have a lot more eye appeal. If there is some inherent weakness preventing a safe recut, then you may need to just enjoy it as it is.
Best of luck!

 

[Cherryheart]

What’s the current status? Did you have the stone put in a new setting?

Hi motownmama, yes, it’s in the setting of my avatar.

 

[Cherryheart]

I suggest you have BGD physically inspect the stone to be certain it will hold up safely to their recutting process. If they think it is safe to proceed, then you'll end up with a superior looking diamond that will not be a lot smaller, but will have a lot more eye appeal. If there is some inherent weakness preventing a safe recut, then you may need to just enjoy it as it is.
Best of luck!

Thank you so much.

 

[lovedogs]

I suggest you have BGD physically inspect the stone to be certain it will hold up safely to their recutting process. If they think it is safe to proceed, then you'll end up with a superior looking diamond that will not be a lot smaller, but will have a lot more eye appeal. If there is some inherent weakness preventing a safe recut, then you may need to just enjoy it as it is.
Best of luck!

Agreed. I think it's very likely the same stone. The fact that the HCA scores are different is not surprising because the numbers on the reports are different. The HCA runs based entirely on the report numbers, and EGLs numbers are simply less accurate than GIA.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I don't do prices - between a willing buyer and seller.
And times change etc
The recut should only need to be done on the pavilion only and a loss of 0.10ct technically. Depending on factors unknown without a scan and info on polish quality etc.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thank you for reminding me of that. Actually I did call EGL and they said the GIA inscription would have been noted on the report. But it wasn’t on my report.

JMO, I don't think is the same stone. The proportions on the two lab report aren't even close of being the same stone. It is highly unlikely that EGL would miss the GIA inscription.

 

[lovedogs]

JMO, I don't think is the same stone. The proportions on the two lab report aren't even close of being the same stone. It is highly unlikely that EGL would miss the GIA inscription.

But honestly even if it's a different stone there's nothing that OP could reasonably do about it at this point, since there's no way to "prove" what happened either way.

 

[headlight]

I feel badly for you for this situation. I, too, many years ago was “victim” to this EGL situation. If BGD is able to recut your diamond (not sure based on the clarify characteristics), it will be WELL WORTH IT. Do not be concerned with the loss in weight... you have plenty to work with and the gain in performance is beyond measure.

 

[yssie]

Even though GIA stated emphatically that the stone couldn't be the same - depending on who you spoke to at GIA... Let's just say that I've received excellent input and outright falsehoods and everything in between. I've had best results asking to be transferred to the lab up-front.

 

[Cherryheart]

I feel badly for you for this situation. I, too, many years ago was “victim” to this EGL situation. If BGD is able to recut your diamond (not sure based on the clarify characteristics), it will be WELL WORTH IT. Do not be concerned with the loss in weight... you have plenty to work with and the gain in performance is beyond measure.

I’m so sorry this also happened to you. If the stone is a candidate, I think BGD will do a fabulous job

 

[Cherryheart]

Even though GIA stated emphatically that the stone couldn't be the same - depending on who you spoke to at GIA... Let's just say that I've received excellent input and outright falsehoods and everything in between. I've had best results asking to be transferred to the lab up-front.

Hi Yssie, When I called Gia the person I spoke with said they wanted to run the information from the reports by someone working in the lab. Two hours later I received a call back. That’s when I received the news that they had no doubt that it is not the same stone. That’s why I wanted to know what would be my next step. Should I go back to the jeweler that sold it to me, or forget everything and just have it recut.

 

[yssie]

Hi Yssie, When I called Gia the person I spoke with said they wanted to run the information from the reports by someone working in the lab. Two hours later I received a call back. That’s when I received the news that they had no doubt that it is not the same stone. That’s why I wanted to know what would be my next step. Should I go back to the jeweler that sold it to me, or forget everything and just have it recut.

What, exactly, do you mean when you say “I want it to have more fire”?

A recut is potentially positive despite the risk only if it can achieve what you want.

 

[Pinot Noir]

Hi Yssie, When I called Gia the person I spoke with said they wanted to run the information from the reports by someone working in the lab. Two hours later I received a call back. That’s when I received the news that they had no doubt that it is not the same stone. That’s why I wanted to know what would be my next step. Should I go back to the jeweler that sold it to me, or forget everything and just have it recut.

Why not going back to him and telling him the whole story? And see what he says without trying to be confrontational? Now you are only guessing how he will react but clearly how would you trust him again in the future? Another crazy possibility: there were two similar stones and he just gave you the wrong certificate?
However, clearly the diamond was originally certified by GIA and the result did not come up as nice as expected. So EGL certification was requested to get better specs on paper.

 

[Dizzie]

Hi Yssie, When I called Gia the person I spoke with said they wanted to run the information from the reports by someone working in the lab. Two hours later I received a call back. That’s when I received the news that they had no doubt that it is not the same stone. That’s why I wanted to know what would be my next step. Should I go back to the jeweler that sold it to me, or forget everything and just have it recut.

Cherry heart, the way I see it. You have a stone that likely was recertified a some 15 years back. Double certification is something that is quite common in the trade, when the stone comes not as expected.

While I cannot comment whether you paid a fair price back then, I would absolutely see no case against the original seller of the stoneafter all those years.

You had so many years that you enjoyed your diamond. Make it even nicer now by recut, get new paperwork on it and enjoy it at its fullest

 

[AV_]

'Never missed an extra facet' is one tall tale.

 

[Cherryheart]

Why not going back to him and telling him the whole story? And see what he says without trying to be confrontational? Now you are only guessing how he will react but clearly how would you trust him again in the future? Another crazy possibility: there were two similar stones and he just gave you the wrong certificate?
However, clearly the diamond was originally certified by GIA and the result did not come up as nice as expected. So EGL certification was requested to get better specs on paper.

Pinot Noir, the day I made the purchase the jeweler showed me 5 similar stones. In fact while I was waiting the two weeks for him to get something in to show me, I took a look online on my own. I actually screenshot the diamond he showed me. See attachment. I showed the jeweler my phone which had a picture of the listing, and the copy of the certificate. The jeweler was surprised that it was online. He sourced It from a different vendor. He charged me quite a large premium, ($28,000) me believing that it wasn’t safe to purchase online. I basically didn’t get anything for my trade-in. My receipt he issued was for an EGL stone. Yes I guess it’s possible that the jeweler didn’t want to tell me that there was a GIA inscription on the girdle. Is it possible for 2 labs to grade a stone within 8 days? I did make it clear to my jeweler that when he had something to show me, I didn’t want to go below an (I) in color. I understand now how different labs grade, but I didn’t at the time of purchase. I think after this pandemic is over I’m going to pay him a visit.

 

[Cherryheart]

What, exactly, do you mean when you say “I want it to have more fire”?

A recut is potentially positive despite the risk only if it can achieve what you want.

Hi Yssie, what I mean by more fire, is better light performance. I would want better cut proportions. There’s not enough light return.