bailey banks biddle lineage diamond

[molly24]

i came across the setting for BBB's lineage diamond and fell in love with it. the problem is, BBB does not sell the setting without the diamond in it. the setting they make is platinum....i want white gold. i want to have another jeweler make this exact setting, but i am a little apprehensive. i really really want this exact setting, but am afraid that it may not come out just right. what can i say? i am very picky and extremely into details. is it a bad idea to have this setting replicated and take a chance that it may not come out right?

also, if anyone has any pictures of this setting, could you please past them ....i have a few, but cannot seem to get a photo of it from different angles. any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Why on earth would you want to make a platinum ring in WG? platinum is the bees knees!

If you go with the BBB ring you could check out the cut quality with an ideal-scope from the banner link or www.ideal-scope.com

 

[divergrrl]

I saw a setting like that at www.tradeshop.com under client previews, you have to hunt for a few pages, but its there..PRETTY!


the whole platinum vs. white gold debate has me dizzy, so any help here is welcome!

ok...I know about the strength & density vs. white gold *BUT* (and here is where my dislike of platinum lies)

2 of my girlfriends have platinum settings (contemporary, like the lineage)

1 has a platinum filigree antique ring (thin 2mm shank, very delicate, completely engraved)

2 have white gold

I have white gold

the rest have yellow gold

*****HERE WE GO**********

The Platinum contemporaries look muddy and scratched to the dickens after one year of wear.

The delicate 2mm plat filigree looks the same

The white gold has a few scratches but still looks shiny and nice, same amount of wear as the yellow gold settings on my other friends.

IMHO, platinum is best for engraved pieces. But the solid bands (like the Jeff Cooper designs) or the brushed stuff winds up looking all wierd once the rhodium finish wears off. I agree it IS stronger (which is why a 2mm antique band still exists when gold has worn away), but for a thicker 4mm or 5mm setting...it gets a dull gray muddy look after normal wear scratching sets in. My white gold looks better than the platinum on my friends hands.

I dunno...not a scientist...but I am picky and look around a lot!

correct me if I am wrong, you won't hurt my feelings...I love learning about this stuff, so please, if someone can settle this, I'd LOVE IT!

 

[lacina]

Hi,Divegrrl
I agree 100% with you,... Platinum is suitable for filigree style settings and actualy does not look it's best after a year or so,.. To maintain a platinum ring is not easy and many jewelers after sanding, polishing just plate it with Rhodium anyway,....
Part of my business is custon jewelry desighn and manufacturing,..
Let me tell you, since we started making engagement rings out of 19K white gold, our business has doubled! The trick is that 19K white gold is not comercially available , therefore each item stamped 19K gold will be custom hand made , one of a kind,... And people lowe the bright white of the 19K white gold, better that the rosey 14 K or 18K that must me rhodium plated to become pure white . Our customers prefer the 19K over platinum for better appearance and easy maintenance.
19K is available only for high end jewelers and not available everywhere because of it's limited supply,... But If you can get it Buy it! Much nicer than Platinum!
In case you can't find it anywhere, or you won't want to shop on Rodeo Dr,... Let me know and I will mail you the casting! For a charge of course,.

George
GLE Gem Imports

 

[plymthrock]

I found this thread on your BBB ring, with a nice photograph: http://www.diamondtalk2.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11055
I'm not a "gem or fine metals" scientist, but there's certainly plenty out there to argue the case for platinum. Here's a little on what I found, but I defer to the experts, since I'm here to learn too!

The difference in price between w.gold and platinum is almost negligible. I think the current market price for platinum is around $598/ounce, and for gold $348/ounce. For example, a 3 mm wedding band may weigh only 4 grams and cost as little as $250 for white gold and $550 for platinum. (By the way, there are 31.1 grams in a Troy ounce of platinum, so this hypothetical platinum ring has a material cost of ~ $80!) Can someone tell me if there is a wider profit margin on bands and settings than diamonds? It certainly appears that way. The real cost for a setting has more to do with the craftsmanship (platinum involves more work, different skills) and the intricacy of the setting, rather than the cost of the metal. I would imagine that the BBB setting would only be an extra $300 - $500 for platinum and I suspect that w.gold wouldn't be advisable based on the detail of the ring. You don't want to loose any of those many diamonds! I'd be less worried about having the ring made with platinum, than with w.gold, since it was designed as a platinum ring. There are many skilled jewelers out there. Once you identify a few, ask to see samples of their work. I have a friend in Boston who had her ring made by a little known jeweler, who makes settings for some of the very fancy, well-recognized jewelers in town. Ask around on this site, you're sure to find a good craftsman/craftswoman.

Some of platinum's merits: rarer, purer, brighter, whiter, denser, harder, stronger, more durable, doesn't tarnish, hypoallergenic, lasts longer, much less likely to need repair (gold settings tend to wear out/break over lifetime). Rhodium electroplating used to be a substitute for proper platinum finishing and polishing, but is no longer a standard practice in the US. Platinum alloys manufactured outside the US may be rhodium-plated to improve the color.

White gold is an alloy and will always give off some yellow color, which can intensify over time, particularly after exposure to household cleaners containing chlorine. Rhodium electroplating is common for w.gold, since it tends to counteract this normal patina and prevents tarnishing, at least until it wears off. Maybe people who wear platinum rings are less gentle with their hands since they are confident that their ring will withstand a little abuse. Plus if you are more inclined to keep your ring on when you do activities, housework, go to the gym, etc., because you know it is durable, then you're bound to scratch it up even more. There are numerous products out there that will shine up a platinum ring without harming it, especially if you keep up with it. The longer you wait, the deeper the scratches, the harder they are to polish. I personally like the slightly worn in look of platinum. It's subtle, classy, gains character with age and doesn't vie for attention the way a chrome-like finish does. But that's just my opinion. If you love white gold, try to get a palladium white gold alloy rather than a nickel white gold alloy, since it is whiter, and keep away from harsh chlorine detergents and abrasives.

Cheers,
Krista

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Excellent response Krista, top of the class

Platinum costs more also because it is 95% pure (18ct = 75% pure) and the 5% additions can be expensive too.
And the same ring in Plat will weigh 20% more.

Platinum is not stronger, it is tougher and does not easily wear out, but bends more easily.

Platinum is generally whiter than almost every white gold and can and I think should also be rhodium plated. The scratches should not be polished out because as you say in a years time they become a patina (you can not see the scratches for the scratches) whereas the tougher surface of WG does not so easily scratch.

 

[ready]

Just the engineer in me (hey, I worked in the steel industry for a few years out of college) - Actually, platinum is NOT harder than gold...it is quite the opposite. Platinum, as CutNut has said, is TOUGHER.

There's a lot more that goes into what determines the ultimate hardness...such as how the material is worked. But, gold is definitely a harder element than platinum.

 

[lacina]

I think the choice of precious metals for personal jewelry is strictly a personal matter, I know people who would not wear anything less than platinum,.... Why? Because someone told them that it is the best you can own!

Peple in the trade , like me, knows the metals from all points of views,...
our factory gets as many Platinum repairs and white or yellow gold repairs.

In my last post I have mentioned the 19K white gold,.. we have been selling it for at least five years and so far there was no defective piece that has made it back for repair yet,... I would swear by it! It has to be the better looking white metal af all, no rhodium plated! And because of it's high content of palladium it is gorgeously white, hard and tough.

I personally like it so much I am wearing 19K white as most people I know in the industry arround here. However, my dear wife, will never be able to settle for less than platinum,.. Go Figure,...


George

 

[Richard Sherwood]

----------
The difference in price between w.gold and platinum is almost negligible. I think the current market price for platinum is around $598/ounce, and for gold $348/ounce. For example, a 3 mm wedding band may weigh only 4 grams and cost as little as $250 for white gold and $550 for platinum. (By the way, there are 31.1 grams in a Troy ounce of platinum, so this hypothetical platinum ring has a material cost of ~ $80!)
----------

The information in your post is excellent Krista, but I'm going to tweak your figures somewhat. In actuality, platinum pieces cost roughly about four times as much as a white gold piece of the same weight.

Take a quarter ounce piece of jewelry, for example. Using your spot figures, here's the precious metal content of 14k, 18k, and platinum:

14k (58% precious metal): $50 intrinsic metal value
18k (75% precious metal): $65 intrinsic metal value
Plat. (100% precious metal): $150 intrinsic metal value

So already (before even getting into labor costs) a platinum piece of equal weight has roughly three times the intrinsic metal value. When you add in the increased labor costs of platinum work versus gold work (platinum has a higher melting temperature, more difficult to work with, requires more highly skilled artisans, etc) then you're up to roughly four times the cost.

Then, as Garry states, platinum is a denser, heavier metal. In order to have a piece with equal mass to a gold piece, you have to increase the weight. In other words, a quarter ounce platinum ring is going to look smaller than a quarter ounce gold ring. So you have to add more precious platinum metal to get the same look.

All in all, a platinum ring will generally cost about four or five times as much as an equivalent looking gold ring.

Rich, Independent GG
Sarasota Gemological Laboratory

 

[geo10000]

Hello, just curious...would you define hardness as the ability to scratch and toughness as the ability to withstand a blow/trauma?

thanks

George

 

[ready]

In metallurgy, hardness is usually defined as the resistance to scratching, abrasion, or cutting. It is also defined as resistance to plastic deformation, i.e., its tendency to not indent when a load is applied.

Although I've never worked with platinum myself, I've heard that it is a bit like working with lead insofar as it's "gooey" cold working properties (although not nearly as pronounced as lead).

Toughness is the resistance to fracturing for a given load. Hardness and toughness do not go hand-in-hand and are not always directly proportional. A piece of tool steel hardened (by heat treatment) to its maximum potential hardness can cut almost any other metal. However, it may shatter like glass if dropped on the floor.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Good analagy
Plat is gooey and will not break away from itself, it just runs along the surface and does not abrade, but it bends very easily (low tenslie strength).

It also picks up tiny particles or dirt in dented crevases and it becomes an abrasive.

 

[divergrrl]

Lacina,

I am taking a metalsmithing & jewelry making class starting tomorrow, and am going to use some of the metals I already have (re-engineering existing jewelry, taking the WG from my existing wedding set -- diamonds are being reset into new setting-- and making a plain band for traveling abroad), but depending on 1) how good I am at this ( i am sure they will start us with nickel...LOL) 2)and after doing practice runs with nickel, & scrap sterling, I may be interested in learning about the 19k white. I am really interested in the biz & design side of jewelry, and having been laid off a year ago and wanting to start a family, hub & I are looking at 'work for thyself' options for moi.

We have a few art schools & gemology schools here in town, so if this small hobby of finding loose diamonds for friends and drawing designs can be more than a hobby (but thats fine too) I might further my studies and then later take advantage of the SBA programs for women & minorities. I really don't want to return to a cubicle as a harried high tech product manager. The stress isn't worth the salary & I have a huge detached garage with a shop & a nice office here at the house.

Just mulling over my thoughts, but that's how things start...

Cheers!

 

[lacina]

Hi Divegrrl,
If you are interested in 19K gold I will ask our goldsmith to sen you few grams of it. I suggest you should practice with silver first , casting of Gold has it's tricks also and you will need to gain some experience. 19K is also dencer metal much like platinum (not quite) but the difference is it has the same melting point as gold,.. It is very marketable because people love it! Let me know when you are ready...
George

 

[tonysgeko]

Lacina, I have a question reguarding 19k white gold. If 19k has 19 parts gold and the remaining 5 parts alloy, how is it possible to "bleach" out, so to speak, the yellow tint with so little alloy? Thank you in advance.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Good point Tony.
I am worried too because a nickel 18ct white gold is actually whiter and harder to scratch than a palladium alloy.
Infact pure palladium is far greyer than either platinum or nickel (look at the coins).

 

[lacina]

Hi Guys ,
Honestly, I don't know the exact content or the technology used to make 19K white gold. All I know 19K white gold is nothing new on the market. True,
it is not widely used because of it's high cost . I will ask the supplier if he can give me more info on it. In case you wonder. the metal is whiter than Platinum and it is solid white all the way thorough, no plating needed. I see if I can find a picture of 19K white gold ring we have made.
But honestly you need to see the difference with your eyes.
George

 

[lacina]

Here it goes
George

 

[lacina]

Ok, Not the best picture but you may see the difference here. Maybe...
This ring is made of 19K white gold and the Tanzanite is 18K white gold
see if you can compare the color
George

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Very nice, George.

 

[Umla]

Hi there,
There's a poster on DT thats selling that exact setting w/o the centerstone. I think its still for sale: http://www.diamondtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=224552#post224552

hope this helps a bit

 

[fishinchica]

Hi,

I've been trying to find information about the differences between white gold vs. platinum with cut filigree. I know that with the engraved filigree platinum is better, but do you happen to know what is better with cut filigree? I found an antique cut filigree ring that I really want and it's made out of platinum. It's very petite,thin and delicate. 90% of the ring is cut filigree and has a rounded shape on the sides so that it's raised off the finger except on the very top and under side of the ring. I've been told that platinum is harder and will break easier with this type of cut filigree and that white gold is better. I was told by someone else that white gold would bend or dent in on the sides of this style of filigree and that platinum would be harder and more durable.

Any advise? Help!!
Thank you

 

[fishinchica]

Do you know if platinum is better for a cut filigree ring or is white gold better? By better I mean which will last longer, wear better, and not break. The cut filigree ring in question is 90% cut and raised off the finger on the sides. I just want to make sure it doesn't cave in or dent easy. It's also an antique, from 1912 or so.

Thanks
Kelli

 

[pooja]

Hello! I have been in search of pictures of this BBB Lineage piece. Have you been able to come across pictures? If you would not mind could you pass them along please.
I appreciate any assitance you can offer.

Thank you!